[Godstud]

If you're angry about the transgendered person at XYZ place... don't go.

A woman's bathroom is for a biological woman, and not just any moron who "identifies" as such. These spaces are for biological woman, and not just anyone who states as such or pretends that they are a woman.

I suppose you're one of the idiots who agree with that rapist in the UK who identified as a woman so he could get sent to a woman's prison?

I don't follow. Why are you supporting the targetting of individuals for the actions of a group they may not affilitate with? That some nasty or stupid groups exist claiming to represent a person exist does not justify discrimination against that person. Are you the type of person that would imprison a random Thai Muslim because of the actions of ISIS?

I quoted the article. Why are you suddenly incapable of reading comprehension?

Collective punishment is against the Geneva Conventions, my friend. You're trying to rationalize a war crime. That's one action you, as an individual, are choosing to take.

Childish. Get help.

[wat0n]

A woman's bathroom is for a biological woman, and not just any moron who "identifies" as such. These spaces are for biological woman, and not just anyone who states as such or pretends that they are a woman.

Honestly, I would just allow establishments serving adults decide how to manage that. I am not personally against the idea, but I also believe the issue isn't just about the preferences of the trans person but also about how everyone else feels too. I am guessing establishments can easily figure this one out.

They can also have all-gender restrooms if they wish, it's awkward to use them but whatever.

Schools are different because children are captive, children can't choose not to attend and switching schools is not easy either.

I suppose you're one of the idiots who agree with that rapist in the UK who identified as a woman so he could get sent to a woman's prison?

I would recognize this person's gender identity but the regime would be the same as for a biological/cisgender/whatever lesbian woman who's in jail for raping other women or a biological/cisgender/whatever gay man who's in jail for raping other men.

I'm guessing that in this case it means being in the women's wing, but under strict isolation. 5-10 years or so in isolation can easily fuck you up.

[late]

Honestly, I would just allow establishments serving adults decide how to manage that.

Jim Crow for queers.

Changes takes time to work things out.

[wat0n]

Jim Crow for queers.

Changes takes time to work things out.

Don't we have that already by segregating restrooms and changing rooms by gender?

[late]

Don't we have that already by segregating restrooms and changing rooms by gender?

That would be a potentially interesting argument if you had the wit, desire, and ability to make it.

Apparently you don't know how to debate... this is like tennis. You hit the ball back; you offer a counterargument of some sort. Asking questions, whataboutism, just doesn't cut the mustard.

About Costa Rica, I know a guy that lives there. He thinks it's a lot safer than America, and based on what he says, I agree.

[wat0n]

That would be a potentially interesting argument if you had the wit, desire, and ability to make it.

Apparently you don't know how to debate... this is like tennis. You hit the ball back; you offer a counterargument of some sort. Asking questions, whataboutism, just doesn't cut the mustard.

I already did: Restrooms and also changing rooms are already segregated by gender.

If one can just claim to be trans, no questions asked, then we may as well just do away with the gender segregation altogether.

About Costa Rica, I know a guy that lives there. He thinks it's a lot safer than America, and based on what he says, I agree.

This has nothing to do with trans people, but anecdotal arguments are shitty ones. The stats don't lie here.

[late]

This has nothing to do with trans people, but anecdotal arguments are shitty ones. The stats don't lie here.

As a rule of thumb, you are correct. But my guy moved from an urban American area, to rural Costa Rica. He owns a farm, mostly trees. His point is that there are safe areas in Costa Rica, and places you don't go. His area is very, very safe.

You have something similar here. Maine is very safe, I live in one of the safest towns in Maine, it's very very safe. We don't have a lot of kids dying from guns...

In the last 20 odd years the number of guns has roughly doubled, while the number of AR15s has gone up roughly tenfold. More guns equals more dead bodies on the ground. And before you waste more of my time, the fact is that the tighter the gun laws (by country) the lower the death rate...

[Fasces]

I think you know it's not the same thing.

Indeed, bathrooms and changing rooms aren't a wholly public space and some privacy is normally expected.

Or what, do you normally enter women's restrooms or changing rooms?

I don't see it as different. My college had unisex bathrooms and it was fine. In my five a side league, we have a woman player who shares a locker room with us and it's also fine.

I get some people are comfortable with gendered bathrooms becauee they're used to them, but it's ultimately arbitrary.

[Fasces]

I quoted the article. Why are you suddenly incapable of reading comprehension?

I did.

Group x does things you disagree with.

You advocate punishing all trans individuals for the actions of group x.

It's pathetic.

[wat0n]

I don't see it as different. My college had unisex bathrooms and it was fine. In my five a side league, we have a woman player who shares a locker room with us and it's also fine.

I get some people are comfortable with gendered bathrooms becauee they're used to them, but it's ultimately arbitrary.

It may be arbitrary indeed, but that type of change needs to be gradual.

I find unisex bathrooms kind of awkward but I agree it's not like a critical social issue or anything. I think forcing change in this regard is worse than letting it happen naturally, and more likely to lead to pushback.

[Fasces]

They said similar things about racial integration, woman's suffrage, etc. The myth of "gradual change" is eternal.

Change is usually a single moment, followed by gradual normalization.

[wat0n]

Well, in both cases the conditions had already been set for the legislative changes aiming for racial integration or allowing women's suffrage.

Has the same groundwork been laid for unisex bathrooms?

[Fasces]

What is this tangent? No one is talking about a law mandating unisex bathrooms.

[Godstud]

You advocate punishing all trans individuals for the actions of group x.

Your idea of "punishment" is fucked up. Not letting people mutilate and delude themselves is not punishment. That's not punishment.

Also, having the people who are the rare exception, treated as such, is not punishment. Your hyperbolic appeal to emotion is noted.

[Fasces]

We're talking about pronouns and bathrooms, not gender reassignment surgery.

Just drop the pretense, say you find the trannies icky, and save the song and dance.

[wat0n]

What is this tangent? No one is talking about a law mandating unisex bathrooms.

Then we're not in such a disagreement.

I don't personally care that much about the bathrooms but I'm aware some definitely don't want unisex ones.

[Fasces]

End of the day, if a transwoman in a bathroom makes you uncomfortable, you turn around, wait patiently for them to finish washing their hands (since I assume you're not looking in stalls), and when they leave, you can enter.

My racist old grandmother does this with Africans.

[AFAIK]

I'd like to see more gender neutral spaces. When I was growing up my mother made me use the women's toilets and changing rooms, which I found more and more embarrassing as I grew older. When I go out with my daughter I almost always have to choose between taking her into the men's room with me or joining her in the women's room.

I don't get why maintaining a dichotomy is so popular. Parents aren't demanding family friendly gender neutral spaces. Trans peeps aren't demanding identity affirming gender neutral spaces.

[Rich]

Decades back I went into a toilet in an Italian Service Station, saw a woman, said sorry and immediately closed the door. Then I had the embarrassment of going back in when I realised it was a mixed gender toilets. If Italians could handle them decades ago, hardly the most mature people on the planet when it comes to gender and sex issues, I'm sure we can.

I would also get rid of gendered prisons. But we would need a much more serious effort to protect less aggressive, abusive, weaker prisoners from their more aggressive, abusive stronger counter parts. As part of that I would bring back the death penalty for murder, rape and grievous bodily harm committed in prison.

My particular loathing is for the liberal hypocrites, who think they can just pick and choose, when they want equality and when they don't. A particular offender is the BBC, the Biased Broadcasting Company with their particular brand of Monarchist Marxism. They demande complete racial equity but want to keep the Royal Family. Not one of these vile hypocrites ever demanded that the Duke of Edinburgh should become King Consort.

[skinster]

It's pathetic.

What's pathetic is you and other men thinking women should open their spaces up to men because you're okay with it.

Just drop the pretense

Tell that to "trans" people who are literally pretending to be the opposite sex.

End of the day, if a transwoman in a bathroom makes you uncomfortable, you turn around, wait patiently for them to finish washing their hands (since I assume you're not looking in stalls), and when they leave, you can enter.

You think "transwomen" are only there to wash their hands?

This happened in a school recently, there was a cover-up and the boy identifying as trans was quietly sent to another school.


Resulting in a protest by students.


But nobody cares about them and their needs for safety and dignity in separate bathrooms, particularly for young girls who, for example, experience periods for the first time and don't want to deal with that aspect of life around boys/men (even if they wear make-up).

How many schoolgirls need to be raped or sodomised, as with the case above, before the concern women have about their spaces becomes a consideration for you? Give me a number. I'm pretty sure I can bring up that many numbers of cases since I pay attention to this stuff that you lot, who nonchalantly sell out women and girls, seem to be oblivious about, or simply don't care for.

When I go out with my daughter I almost always have to choose between taking her into the men's room with me or joining her in the women's room.

Why's that? Why can't she attend the bathroom by herself?

I would also get rid of gendered prisons

Men rape women in these too. Let me know your magic number of how many women need to be raped in prisons before you consider the concerns women have of mixing confined spaces with male strangers.