[Politics_Observer]

In this day and age I think all people should never have sex at all and simply just masturbate. It's safe sex, it gets you off, you don't have to worry about STDs or somebody getting offended or angry somehow over a condem accidentally slipping off or an accidental unwanted pregnancy and then somebody getting criminally charged over something stupid that was purely an accident or misunderstanding. If all people never have sex and just masturbate to get off then everybody is happy because nobody catches an STD or has an accidental pregnancy or gets offended or upset over something stupid.

No sex, just masterbation, no problems, problem solved and there is no confusion or misunderstandings or somebody getting offended or somebody going to jail over something stupid. Nobody has anything to bitch and complain about because everybody is just masterbating and keeping to themselves. Simple solution really and nobody has to worry about taking some kind of big massive risk with the law or offending somebody from simply engaging in the natural act of sex because they are now masterbating instead of having sex with somebody else.

Reading this thread makes it seem like sex with somebody else has a big potential of just too much possible trouble to deal with and disinentivizes sexual relations with others or reproduction. Thus making masterbation the only viable alternative.

[Negotiator]

NO birth control is reliable. Even if the woman has taken the pill, she might have done some error in doing so.

So: you dont want kids with a woman ? Then dont have penetration with that woman.

[Godstud]

@Negotiator The woman is the person who chooses who does and does not have sex with them. The onus is on the woman to ensure that she does not get pregnant, as the man cannot determine that, nor can he decide to abort, or use a Plan B pill. The woman has absolute reproductive rights. The man has none.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

Men have the power of choice. They don't have to have sex with a woman, even if she wants it. He can just turn her down. He is responsible for his own actions and choices as well. Women typically do not force a man to have sex with them. If she is willing, he has the choice to turn her down and not have sex with her, no matter how attractive and beautiful she might be. A man can always just say "NO" and not even think or worry about it. Nobody's rights are violated and there is no risk of getting in trouble with the law. Plus, no kids to pay for and support that nobody wanted and probably couldn't afford to pay for anyway.

[Godstud]

Men do have the power of choice, but women are the people who determine who has sex and who does not. Men determine the relationship status.

If she is willing,

Exactly. It all comes down to the woman, at the end of the day.

A man can always just say "NO" and not even think or worry about it.

1 in 3 men aged 18-24 are likely to not have had sex in the last year.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... %20by%20Dr.

Walk out in the street and approach a few women offering sex. Do you think you'll have any success? Now have a woman do the same thing. What are the odds she'll find a willing person in a few minutes? Men and women are not the same. Women are the gatekeepers for sex and men for relationships.

If a woman wants sex, even if she's average looking, odds are very good she can get it. The same cannot be said for a man.

That said, it's the man who determines if he's going to make any sort of short-term "hook-up" into more. Men determine if it's a relationship by giving resources and protection. It's how it has always been.

Nobody's rights are violated and there is no risk of getting in trouble with the law.

We're discussing when people are preying upon by someone seeking to get pregnant when the other does not. They are violating the right of the person because they are taking away the CHOICE of reproduction. Wanting sex and wanting a baby are two separate things, despite how you might feel about it.

There are things that ensure almost 100% reproductive safety. These fail if one of the people engaged in it, refrains from use, lies about it, or sabotages it. That's what this discussion is all about.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

Sometimes unintentional pregnancies happen during sex. How does the law determine if somebody intentionally "stealthed" a woman during sex or that the pregnancy was an unintentional accident? Should we start jailing men who have consensual sex with a woman but accidentally, and unintentionally, get her pregnant? This is also why abortion rights are important too. The fact of the matter is, accidents do happen. How can the law really know for sure if it is an accident or intentional stealthing? Moreover, a man most certainly can turn a woman down for sex.

An attractive woman comes onto a married man, he can say "No!" Or maybe he is just not in the mood for sex and decides to say "No!" to the woman. Guys who go around asking for sex are desperate and pathetic in my opinion. If some random woman comes up to a man asking for sex, he should tell her "No!" no matter how beautiful and attractive she is because he might feel "I don't know this woman. This is very unusual for a woman to do such a thing. She could have an STD or AIDS or HIV for all I know. Or maybe she is trying to get revenge on a boyfriend or husband who could turn out to be jealous. "

I mean come on, we all do enjoy sex, but by the same token, you don't have to just blindly follow your sexual urges. You can exercise some self-control, even if you are a man dealing with an attractive and beautiful woman. And if your urges are really high, and you think it is smart to turn a beautiful attractive woman down for sex, you can always just go jerk off and relieve your urges that way.

The point is, you want to be smart before having sex and if your urges are high, you can find alternatives to legally relieve your urges (just jerk off) rather than making a possibly unwise decision to bang some hot chick who could have AIDS or HIV or an STD or who might falsely accuse you of "stealthing" her because she is mentally unstable or vindictive for some reason who you don't know well. And a rubber isn't a 100% protection either, nor does a rubber give you the full experience of sex. Any time you have sex, on some level, you are taking a risk. That is something, as a man, you have to bear in mind before having sex and exercise self-control and turn the woman down when you deem it wise to do so given your specific situation.

[late]

Maine just got out of the business of telling women and Docs what they can do. There is a new law, don't think it's signed yet. My understanding is it places no limits on abortion, which makes it the most liberal in the country.

[Godstud]

@late Even in Canada, which has no laws on abortion, has limits set by each province(eg. Alberta has it set at 20 weeks).

Question. Have they taken into account any male reproductive rights(men have none, incidentally), or does the government still tell men they have to support an unwanted pregnancy or go to jail?

Men should be permitted a financial abortion if they do not want a child and thus sign off all rights in relation to a child, if the pregnancy is unwanted by a man.

@Politics_Observer Women are the final determiners when it comes to having sex. Men aren't saying, "No, means no.". Even an average looking woman can get sexual attention, rapidly, if they want. Meanwhile, men aged 18-30 are 32% likely to not have had sex in the last year, or are virgins. Pretending men and women are the same is ridiculous.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

No woman is forcing me to have sex with her. Just because a beautiful woman wants me doesn't mean I would agree to have sex with her and vice versa. Come on dude. And I am not desperate for sex from a woman. I, as a heterosexual man have turned down sex from a few beautiful ladies and for good reason.

And I am an ugly bastard! Main reason why I turned some ladies down is because I am married. But I get to say "No" too if I am a man and it's my right to do so just like it is a woman's right to do so. Just because a hot babe wants me doesn't mean I am going to agree mainly because I am married but even if I was single this would be the case.

You have to get to really know the woman before agreeing to mutually consenual sex. You don't just hop in the sack with just anybody or just because they look good. That can get you into a lot of trouble too.

If my wife isn't in the mood to give me any, I'll just go and wack off if I need to and everything is cool. Single guys can do it too. It's safe sex for single guys and far less risky. It doesn't cost you anything.

And sometimes I turn my wife down for sex because I have to be in the mood too. Heck, I am not always in the mood for sex. When you are married you don't always get it when you want it whether you're a man or a woman. That's married life. But you got to stop being needy.

No guy should be desperate or needy for sex. Sex costs alot anyways and you have to ask whether it's worth it in the end. Because there is no such thing as cheap sex. I think you have been watching too much of that Andrew Tate.

[Godstud]

@Politics_Observer What I am saying is that if women want sex, it is far easier for them to get it than men. This is an objective reality. It has nothing to do with any internet influencer or anything like that, so that's just a deflection.

Most men do NOT get women hitting on them. It's exceedingly rare for a woman to do it, and so women who attempt it are usually crappy at it.

If you were to go out tonight and look for sex, your odds of getting any are low. If you were a woman of the same level of attractiveness, in search of a partner, your odds are MUCH higher. Women are gatekeepers for sex. Men are gatekeepers to relationships. Women have control of reproduction.

[Politics_Observer]

And what I am saying is that men have the same choice as women. Just because a woman wants sex, even if she is beautiful, doesn't mean she is going to get it. You act like men have no power or say in sexual matters and that is simply not the case. A woman can't get pregnant in most cases unless she finds a man who agrees to have sex with her or maybe artificial insemination.

But kids are big responsibility and cost a lot of money. So before a guy hops in bed with a willing woman, he better have a good paying job first. And if he doesn't and she winds up pregnant, he is very irresponsible and made a stupid selfish choice. So, no, guys have the power of choice too.

I don't want to get a woman pregnant if don't have the money and resources to pay for a kid. So no, your argument that somehow women can magically cast a spell and force men to have sex with them deflects from the fact that a man has the power of choice too and can keep his dick in his pants and tell her "No" because he doesn't have the money to pay for kids or doesn't want to risk catching AIDS or an STD from a woman he doesn't know.

And if he does get her pregnant or catches an STD, then he owns his choices. No woman forced him to have sex with her against his will. Women do not control your life or your choices man. You do. You have power over your own life by the choices you make. Nobody else does.

[Godstud]

And what I am saying is that men have the same choice as women. Just because a woman wants sex, even if she is beautiful, doesn't mean she is going to get it. You act like men have no power or say in sexual matters and that is simply not the case. A woman can't get pregnant in most cases unless she finds a man who agrees to have sex with her or maybe artificial insemination.

No. You misunderstand. What I am saying is that women have far more opportunity to have sex, and they have complete control of reproduction.

If a woman WANTS to have sex, they are more likely to be able to exercise that want. Very few men can do so, unless they are particularly rich, high status, or handsome.

Women have almost full control of reproductive rights(beyond simply having sex). Men have none. If a woman chooses to keep or get rid a child, it is not up to the man. The man can be omitted from any say whatsoever.

[late]

No. You misunderstand. What I am saying is that women have far more opportunity to have sex, and they have complete control of reproduction.

If a woman WANTS to have sex, they are more likely to be able to exercise that want. Very few men can do so, unless they are particularly rich, high status, or handsome.

Women have almost full control of reproductive rights(beyond simply having sex). Men have none. If a woman chooses to keep or get rid a child, it is not up to the man. The man can be omitted from any say whatsoever.

Ironically, and typically, men have as much control as they want...

[Politics_Observer]

@late

That's right. You have control over your own choices and a woman doesn't force you to do anything or cast any sort of magical spell over you. It's just up to you to exercise self control, good judgement, and make good choices.

A good example of bad self control and choice is when a husband cheats on his wife. That can be very costly sex when his wife divorces him, and he goes to court and it comes out he has been cheating on her. Especially, if the wife is the economically disadvantaged spouse in the eyes of the law.

[Godstud]

Ironically, and typically, men have as much control as they want...

False. Typically, if a woman gets pregnant, a man has absolutely NO(ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NIL) say in whether she keeps the child or aborts it. That's fact.

A man can say, Let's keep the child.", and the woman can still get an abortion. It's also her choice(100%) on whether she keeps the child. That is NOT control.

We are discussing about "Lying about birth control", too. With a man it's pretty easy to determine if he uses a condom, but birth control for women isn't as obvious/visible.

We are not discussing people in a committed relationship, @Politics_Observer, who cheat. We are talking about people who try to get a woman pregnant, or try to get themselves(a woman of course) pregnant, without their sexual partner's consent. Consent is important not only in sex, but the potential outcome of sex.

[late]

We are not discussing people in a committed relationship

When people divorce rights from responsibilities...

[Godstud]

The topic is about LYING in regards to using birth control, @late, so we can assume that responsibility is the last thing the liar is concerned with.

To be honest, I think this falls into the realm of 'Consent'. Consenting to sex does not mean consenting to having a child. That should be discussed by BOTH people involved, and not simply one.

[wat0n]

Is lying about using birth control measures worse when a man does it? If the woman ended up getting an abortion, it's still a medical procedure she wouldn't have wanted if honesty had been the norm.

[Godstud]

@wat0n Lying about birth control is bad no matter who does it. Neither men nor women should do it. Impregnation should be consensual for both participants.