#MeToo Hysteria Is A Pretext For Women To Take Power And Money Away From Men - Page 16 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14879234
Drlee wrote:Where in the world do you live? This is certainly not the case in the US. Or are we indulging in a bit of hyperbole?


Maybe you should look up the statistics before explaining things to me.

A Rape a Minute, A Thousand Corpses a Year
Here in the United States, where there is a reported rape every 6.2 minutes, and one in five women will be raped in her lifetime...though a rape is reported only every 6.2 minutes in this country, the estimated total is perhaps five times as high. Which means that there may be very nearly a rape a minute in the United States. It all adds up to tens of millions of rape victims.

We could talk about high-school– and college-athlete rapes, or campus rapes, to which university authorities have been appallingly uninterested in responding in many cases...We could talk about the escalating pandemic of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment in the US military, where Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta estimated that there were 19,000 sexual assaults on fellow soldiers in 2010 alone and that the great majority of assailants got away with it
https://www.thenation.com/article/rape- ... pses-year/


^I recommend reading the entire article to get an understanding of what women already know about men.

Violence Against Women in the United States: Statistics
#14879240
Drlee wrote:No. No it wouldn't. But nice try.

But for the record. If a starlet is willing to trade sex for a part, who can stop her? I asked this earlier. This entire discussion seems to ignore the undeniable fact that some, if not many, people hoping for fame or fortune make it known to men that they would trade sexual favors for shot at that.

Clearly men are supposed to ignore these advances but we are going a bit too far. To Suntzu's point. Why should they? IF I own a business, and that business has an opening, why not give it to whomever I want for whatever reason? If I make a mistake my business might suffer but then we are not really talking about unqualified people. We are talking about a multitude of good choices. In Marylin Monroe's biography she was quoted as calling Hollywood a "brothel" and said that she spent "much of my early career on my knees". Hiring her was sure no mistake no matter how she got the job.

Is this something we can talk about?


@Drlee I will get to the point quickly here. I don't care at all for using power to try to manipulate or coerce someone to do something sexual or the threat is you won't get the job. For me? That is despicable stuff. I think many people, especially young, beautiful women who might dream of being dancers, singers, models, actresses or performers on the stage--have to give up their dignity to become what? Starlets. I find that just wrong. They do it. They should not. For me you should always be more worried about your dignity than about keeping a job.

At the same time--there are very poor women who need to feed their families and they wind up tolerating things they should not tolerate. Men with power or money or position should not feel they have the right to 'buy' sexual favors. You know I ask why men with money or power have the need to do that?

Call me naive or romantic, or idealistic Drlee, but for me? The voluntary and freely given sex between two people who are in love and care deeply about each other without power, money or lying and manipulation going on? Is vastly superior in satisfaction than the stuff that is about some shallow power play and bullshit. What is there that is great about having some pretty young woman feeling that she lost a tiny bit of her soul or had to sully her dignity to do something she would never have consented to if she was not coerced to do so? Frios corazones. Cold hearts.
#14879254
Suntzu wrote:Trading sex for money or career advancement should be legal.

I actually agree with you on something.

The career advancement thing is subjective, though, but it is an act similar to buying an expensive dinner or otherwise trading for a favor, if you aren't hung up on sex.
#14879263
Suntzu wrote:Don't confuse willing sex by underage girls with rape.
:eh: So you think it's OK for a 30 year old man to have sex with a 12 year old girl as long as she says, "OK?". I don't even want to comment on what I think about you, right now, as it'd get me a fucking red card! >:
#14879265
Godstud wrote::eh: So you think it's OK for a 30 year old man to have sex with a 12 year old girl as long as she says, "OK?". I don't even want to comment on what I think about you, right now, as it'd get me a fucking red card! >:


How 'bout if she fucks her 13 year old boyfriend? Let's say you plot out, then murder and dismember you wife. Should you be charged with the same crime if you killed your wife in a fit of rage after catching her fucking your neighbor?

I don't think it should be legal for a 30 year old guy got fuck a 12 year old girl. I don't believe we should call it rape if she did it willingly or even solicited it. It used to be called statutory rape, considerably less serious than forcible rape.
#14879284
Suntzu wrote:Sex has been a commodity for thousands of year. Rape is a crime as it should be. Trading sex for money or career advancement should be legal. Don't confuse coerced sex with rape. Don't confuse willing sex by underage girls with rape.


Sex might be a commodity but sex workers suffer emotional and physical problems and always have. Throughout human history, syphilis, gonarrea, venereal disease, the clap, crabs, herpes simplex, clahmydia (that leads to serious consequences such as lifelong infertility and very dangerous tubal pregnancies that end in death) etc etc. AIDS, HIV, and sexually transmitted infections. I worked with people who had those issues and they caught it unsuspectingly many times. Some of them being sex workers, and others being very uncareful with their sexual choices. It all has consequences. For me the worst of it is how they feel after they get a deadly lifelong virus like HIV---that is no longer as bad as it once was, but it is still life altering. These people have to reveal their health status to potential new sexual partners....many just accept celibacy forever. They suffer tremendously from low self esteem, self rejection.....being socially isolated.

I remember one sweet woman. When she left my office I must have wept for a long time. It was heartbreaking. She was born a hemophiliac, and as a child had to have blood transfusions if she even got minor cuts or internal bleeding. In the mid 80's she got a blood transfusion when she was a kid. It gave her HIV. Not through anything she did or chose. She was HIV positive and had to struggle for years with that and taking a very expensive injection called K shot. It costs about $25k a shot. Over a years worth of shots? About one million dollars and for the HIV meds? About $36k. No private insurance would take her so she could only be on medicaid. State insurance. That meant if she wanted to keep her health insurance from the state she could not make more than $1125 dollars a month. At all. If she went over even by one dollar she might lose her insurance. So she only worked jobs that were low paying. Even though she was very bright and wanted to be a doctor and had dreams. All her dreams she had given up on. She would socialize at work. And put on her makeup and comb her hair and dream of being someone's wife or girlfriend. She never was. Never got the courage to tell someone who she was.....what kind of disease she had. The stigma, the fear....she would tell me, "Tainari, I just want to go to the movies and he can sit next to me and hold my hand and we can eat a pizza and go for a beer. And maybe he can hug me and say how I look so pretty.....wouldn't that be nice?" She dreamed of maybe going to Las Vegas for a day and seeing some sights but she never had enough after paying rent and basics.

I remember her face. Why is she supposedly worthy of compassion and the others who might have had sex for money less worthy? For me all human beings need love, dignity, respect, and great care. Someone who cares about them and loves them.

I loved her. I think she knew that...she always did.

I am sorry, but this topic of sex and health and people thinking sex is something light and easy to trade, or exchange for some grubby dollar is not my value system. It never will be.
#14879326
Igor Antunov wrote:Sewage workers, soldiers, etc. Men also suffer in some occupations. Deal with it.


My father was in the public service arm of the RAAF as a parts buyer(and later he was in their Mail department).... He suffered psychologically from stuff he did in his Job with the airforce that he was not legally allowed to talk about even with his family.

He was buying stuff that was basically designed to drop and kill a lot of people in the most effective way possible. He couldn't tell us anything. He told the psychologist, and that was the only thing he could tell us about it, that he was seeing a psychologist even years later to talk about his Job. Buying stuff from Russia, Germany and the USA likely to be used to kill people in some far off place. And likely seeing it on the nightly News.

At least a sex worker doesn't have cope with the fact that what they bought for the Airforce was going to be deployed and used to kill people (for the safety of Australia).

Oh and Igor, remember the Collins class Submarines? They're named after my family. I'm directly related to Sir John Collins. My grandfather's brother.

He killed alot of Germans and Japanese. Someone had to.

Sex Workers suffer with disease, poverty and other issues, but look at it this way, at least they don't have to walk around everyday with the knowledge that their job was to buy the tools that will help those on the front kill people. At least they don't suffer in the manner that those that work in fields like Defence do.

Dad wasn't even on the front, he was admin, and he had severe psychological trauma from it.
#14879351
Sex might be a commodity but sex workers suffer emotional


I'll stop there. I agree with Tainari. The myth of the 'happy hooker' is just that. As a society we can try to make prostitution safe. In the past we have even made it part of religious ritual. What we have never done is make it really much less soul crushing.

Is a prostitute in Germany (where prostitution is legal and controlled) any less of a social outcast than one on the streets of any big US city? Even in Germany it is an ugly business and a hub for human trafficking. A girl with a license and a class on preventing diseases, servicing a customer wearing a condom is still taking a severe emotional hit.

I suppose that a government regulated system is potentially better than a non regulated one but only just.

I think there is, however, a distinct difference between a woman servicing all comers (sorry) in the back of a car for a few dollars and a woman using sex to get a job.

Whenever we have one of these discussions we usually get stuck around the hyperbolic edges. We are not talking about sex with 12 year old's here. There is no excuse for that whatever. And no justification based upon some notion of consent when one is speaking of said 12 year old and an adult. Yet in the US it remains legal for a 50 year old to marry a 12 year old in many states under the right circumstances. (Finding a judge who will approve it might be an issue but it is technically legal and the resulting sex certainly not rape by the legal definition. So let's set that aside. Let's talk about consenting adults. And not about everyday prostitutes.

What about my question. What is to be done about women who are willing to trade sex for a shot at stardom or some other career goal? Is the responsibility still on the boss? What if she comes on to him and he decides that she is OK for the part and...why not? Because it is not fair to "nice girls" who also want to be stars? There is an old saying. "Nice girls go to heaven, naughty girls go to Maui." (By the way, this could also include men who are willing to do the same so it is not confined to women.
#14879357
It indeed is a difficult and dangerous job. However Men do jobs that traumatize them potentially more severely in alternative ways.

It's one thing to get traumatized from contracting HIV and know you cannot touch people (I've known people with HIV, it's very sad), it is entirely another to be psychologically traumatized because other people in foreign lands died in fair numbers because you did your job well and it was a result of you doing your job well.
#14879375
It's nice to see people here talking about prostitution in a positive light. With youth unemployment approaching 50% in some countries, this type of work could provide a way for young, attractive people to buy nice things by sleeping with men who resemble Harvey Weinstein.

Legalizing prostitution also gives an incentive to the rich to NOT invest in anything that would create youth employment. By NOT creating jobs for young people, these Harvey Weinsteins (the rich) will have unfettered access to sexual gratification. This is what capitalism does to natural instincts.

B0ycey wrote:Sex is a two person activity (excluding masturbation that he doesn't deem appropriate) so if one person is a sleezeball with no social skills, can't court properly and has extreme fantasies, do you think the state should allow/provide his sexual fulfillment?

First of all, sex is not always a two-person activity. It can involve any number of humans, and non-humans as well (toys, animals, situations, mass media). Narrowing the range of options, like you have, also limits the range of available solutions to the (Hollywood startlets) problem we are, hopefully, trying to resolve in this thread.

Secondly, your dehumanization of sexually-unfilfilled males ('sleazeballs with no social skills') does a great diservice to the male half of the human population. This dehumanization is similar to the way Israeli media dehumanizes Palestinians - with tragic results for Palestinians and human rights as a result.

You (like Western mass media) are applying the principles of Orientalism to half of the human experience - spitting on males who can't get no satisfaction. What a spectacular victory for those forces who would destroy human solidarity.
#14879378
It seems anyone who questions #metoo is censored. Is #metoo just about exposing sexual harassment or is there an ulterior motive?

So Damon questioned conflating rape and inappropriate touching. In some cases a man kissed a woman without consent. However in public that is traditional and not sexual. Women do that all the time (except with Mr Bean).





Anyway, here’s the article:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/jan/13/tod-robberson-matt-damons-hard-lesson-tangling-wit/


Tod Robberson: Matt Damon’s hard lesson tangling with the Team America: Word Police
Sat., Jan. 13, 2018, 5:41 p.m.

By Tod Robberson
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
SMS
Scientists have finally discovered a cure for that dreaded condition known as Male Answer Syndrome. It’s called the #MeToo movement. Men, it’s now our turn – to shut up. A lot of folks probably think that’s a good thing, but be careful about what you wish for.

In the nation’s mad rush to accuse, condemn, convict and outcast anyone who has engaged in sexually unacceptable behavior, we also are shutting down an important discussion that still needs to take place, one in which men must participate. A lot of men want to speak out in support of women, but in this atmosphere, they don’t dare.

Just ask Matt Damon. He was forthright enough on Dec. 14, during an interview with ABC News, to warn against lumping all transgressors into “one big bucket” without regard to nuance or distinction. “There’s a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right?” he said. “Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn’t be conflated, right?”

I don’t hold all Hollywood actors in high regard concerning their intellectual and political insights, but Damon strikes me as smart and thoughtful. He measures his words carefully.

Doesn’t matter. Team America: Word Police quickly arrived with guns blazing. We haven’t heard a peep from Damon since. He kept a low profile at the Golden Globes festivities. He dutifully dressed in black like all his other frightened male colleagues but stayed away from the microphones.

Just before Christmas, members of my family were debating what movies to go see. I proposed Damon’s new film, “Downsizing,” and was instantly put in my place. As I cast my eyes downward in shame and silence, I was informed that Damon defends sexual abusers. “Downsizing” was nixed in my household as a movie-going option, no matter how good the reviews.

Multiply that by a few million, and that’s Damon’s punishment. Because our nation is now in Autoshame Mode, “Downsizing” was officially downsized. Barely 10 days after Damon’s ABC interview, the Hollywood Reporter said “Downsizing” was radioactive at the box office.

What other actor wants to risk that fate? Publicists told the New York Times’ Cara Buckley that men attending the Golden Globes “were probably terrified of making missteps on the world’s stage. When every word men utter … is pored over, parsed and often harshly criticized, silence is often the best option.”

In truth, Damon’s words weren’t radically different from those of other observers, including women, on the national stage. In the Times op-ed page, critic Daphne Merkin wrote that she expected stars to show up at the Golden Globes and dutifully toe the #MeToo line. “But privately, I suspect, many of us, including many longstanding feminists, will be rolling our eyes, having had it with the reflexive and unnuanced sense of outrage that has accompanied this cause from its inception, turning a bona fide moment of moral accountability into a series of ad hoc and sometimes unproven accusations.”

Liberal America has a way of adopting groupthink not as a heartfelt expression of solidarity and empathy but rather as an inviolable requirement. You will submit to the groupthink of the moment – #Blacklivesmatter, #MeToo, #HillaryClinton, #FeeltheBern – or Team America: Word Police will blow your career away. In the name of keeping the troops in line, they will obliterate all notions of free speech and thought. Conservatives couldn’t be happier watching this feeding frenzy.

Did Al Franken deserve to be lumped in with Harvey Weinstein among the ranks of most-wanted sexual terrorists? No. But his critics weren’t interested in his defense. Franken’s career as a U.S. senator is now over.

I have not been sexually victimized by a person who had power over me, so I cannot claim to know how that feels. I did experience two times in my career when extremely powerful people abused me professionally. Had I chosen to come forward, I probably could have exacted a large libel settlement from one of those prominent people. I could have ruined the career of the other.

But in the process, I feared, I would destroy my own career. So I kept silent. And I have hated myself ever since.

What I went through compares not even slightly with the pain and humiliation that countless women have experienced at the hands of men who had power over them and abused or harassed them sexually. Yes, now is the time for them to speak out and be heard. Anyone who doesn’t have something to contribute to the conversation is best advised to listen quietly.

But please, if a few well-meaning men dare to venture a constructive viewpoint that isn’t 100 percent in line with the current groupthink, must they also be autoshamed? Thoughtful people don’t deserve to be destroyed in the name of going after the guys who really deserve it.
#14879379
QatzelOk wrote:It's nice to see people here talking about prostitution in a positive light. With youth unemployment approaching 50% in some countries, this type of work could provide a way for young, attractive people to buy nice things by sleeping with men who resemble Harvey Weinstein.


Spoken like a true Capitalist. Everything is for sale. Even dignity. Your transition to serve the moneymen is complete @QatzelOk.

Legalizing prostitution also gives an incentive to the rich to NOT invest in anything that would create youth employment. By NOT creating jobs for young people, these Harvey Weinsteins (the rich) will have unfettered access to sexual gratification. This is what capitalism does to natural instincts.


So let me get this straight - I am laughing as I write this by the way. We have a socialist who doesn't want to create jobs so the wealthy can have sexual gratification. :lol: What are you smoking!

First of all, sex is not always a two-person activity. It can involve any number of humans, and non-humans as well (toys, animals, situations, mass media). Narrowing the range of options, like you have, also limits the range of available solutions to the (Hollywood startlets) problem we are, hopefully, trying to resolve in this thread.


Very true. You can have sex with more than one person. But that means you need more consent. We shouldn't be advocating rape like what you seem to be suggesting.

Secondly, your dehumanization of sexually-unfilfilled males ('sleazeballs with no social skills') does a great diservice to the male half of the human population. This dehumanization is similar to the way Israeli media dehumanizes Palestinians - with tragic results for Palestinians and human rights as a result.

You (like Western mass media) are applying the principles of Orientalism to half of the human experience - spitting on males who can't get no satisfaction. What a spectacular victory for those forces who would destroy human solidarity.


I'm not give a disservice to males . Anybody can have sex with consent - even a sleezeball. However manners goes a long way to help getting consensual sex.

Just curious @QatzelOk, how exactly do you suggest the state provides this sexual gratification for everyone that doesn't penalise women?
#14879428
To Suntzu's defence of casual prostitution and other sexual misconduct, Godstud wrote::eh: So you think it's OK for a 30 year old man to have sex with a 12 year old girl as long as she says, "OK?". I don't even want to comment on what I think about you, right now, as it'd get me a fucking red card! >:

Well, the problem with this kind of age disparity is that the power difference between the two make it impossible for the younger partner to act on any kind of meaningful agency. What choice does a kid have if an adult manipulates them?

But prostitution is the same. The prostitute is much poorer than the trick (usually) and this income inequality, like age or maturity inequality, makes true agency impossible. So without true agency, rape, prostitution and sex with minors are all the same basic phenomena: people exploiting income or physical superiority to indulge in sexual gratification.

If you support one, you have to support them all.

I think I'd rather promote casual homsexuality and beastiality, since these things don't really involve exploitation of physical or economic advantage (as long as the other animal or other partner enjoys it too).
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