Coronavirus Bill: the greatest loss of liberty in our history - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15078482
Rich wrote:Its certainly not the greatest loss of liberty. Conscription was a far greater loss of liberty.


Wait until they're forcing people to take the vaccine. That's a massive violation of liberty. And you know that it isn't gonna be safe or effective, it's gonna hurt a lot of people while the establishment denies it up and down. When they came out with that swine flu vaccine in the 1970s it gave a lot of people Guillain–Barre syndrome (GBS) and they still deny the true extent of the damage to this day.



Swine Flu Vaccine May Be Linked to Rare Nerve Disorder

The H1N1 (swine) flu vaccine was associated with a small but significant risk for developing a rare nervous disorder called Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS), say doctors in a report detailed in the July 11 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

The study, conducted in Quebec, rekindles the still-controversial connection between Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS) and the 1976 swine flu outbreak, which halted that year's flu vaccination program in the United States. It also raises questions about vaccines for flu strains originating in swine.


This latest analysis, led by Philippe De Wals of Laval University, Quebec City, Canada, followed 4.4 million residents vaccinated against the H1N1 "swine flu" in late 2009. Over the next six months, 25 people who received the vaccine developed GBS. Across the Quebec province, however, another 58 people who were not vaccinated also developed GBS.

De Wals said that, regarding the entire population, the number of GBS cases attributed to the swine flu vaccine was about 2 per 1 million doses

[...]

many health experts do not readily concede to vaccine risks when confronted with them. And Guillain–Barré syndrome haunts many like a specter.

Tale of two swine

Guillain–Barré syndrome is a serious peripheral nerve disease that can cause partial paralysis, breathing difficulties and death. Most patients recover after several months to a year, although not always fully. GBS is associated with Campylobacter jejuni, the food-borne bacterium, and several viruses; but for most cases, the immediate cause is not known, according to the CDC.

During the 1976 swine flu outbreak in the United States, health authorities reported an unusually high number of GBS cases, nearly 1,100 — half of which occurred after immunization against the flu. Panic ensued, and the vaccine program ended by December that year.

Doctors debated the connection then, and it took nearly 30 years before the prestigious U.S.-based Institute of Medicine concluded in 2003 that there was a causal relationship and that one extra person out of a million contracted GBS as a result of the vaccination.

The results of the new Quebec study on the 2009 H1N1 flu strain of swine origin are eerily similar to the conclusions drawn from the dozens of studies on the 1976 swine flu outbreak. Is there something about vaccines for flu strains of swine origin that can trigger GBS?

A much larger study published in February 2011 in the New England Journal of Medicine examined nearly 90 million doses of H1N1 vaccine in China and concluded that the answer was no. Doctors there found only 11 cases of Guillain–Barré syndrome, which actually is far lower than the natural rate.
https://www.livescience.com/21504-swine ... r-gbs.html



The one in a million number is unadulterated bullshit, it comes from bogus, underpowered epidemiological studies.
#15078483
Sivad wrote:The one in a million number is unadulterated bullshit, it comes from bogus, underpowered epidemiological studies.


What you can take from that study is that the signal is so strong that they can't just deny it outright(if they thought they could get away with denying it outright they would). They have to admit it and if they say it's one in a million it's probably in reality more like one in ten thousand or even one in a thousand.
#15078487
Sivad wrote:Wait until they're forcing people to take the vaccine. That's a massive violation of liberty. And you know that it isn't gonna be safe or effective,

Conscripted soldiers were forced to take all sorts of things, and while I'm not keen, not keen at all on being forced to take vaccines, I doubt it wil be as dangerous to one's health as going over the top at Passchendaele. I'm quite intolerant of Liberal and Leftist fantasises, but conservative fantasies about some great lost age of liberty are equally absurd.

Liberties are not some God given right, but privileges granted by the community, that can be rescinded by the community.
Last edited by Rich on 26 Mar 2020 16:37, edited 1 time in total.
#15078488
Sivad wrote:Wait until they're forcing people to take the vaccine. That's a massive violation of liberty.
Forcing you to take a vaccine that will probably save your life? Oh the horror... :roll: You have your priorities really fucked up, @Sivad.

Fuck off and go live in the woods away from society if you don't wan to do the most basic things to keep the people around you safe. Please! Do the rest of society a favour!

Sivad wrote:And you know that it isn't gonna be safe or effective, it's gonna hurt a lot of people while the establishment denies it up and down.
Again, you're cherry-picking and ignoring the success of vaccines. Just like a true conspiracy theorist, you believe what you want to and dismiss the facts, that destroy your arguments. Vaccines do not hurt a lot of people, so your far-mongering is absolute stupidity.

The dangers of a vaccine are small potatoes in comparison to the disease itself. That's simply fact.
#15078588
Rich wrote:...I doubt it wil be as dangerous to one's health as going over the top at Passchendaele.


Thank you for your service, sir.
#15078606
I am a little surprised the "petty nationalists" have not tried to exploit for political capital this coronavirus thing. The totalitarians are out there exploiting it for world government and forced medical procedures, "flulags" etc. The globalists too.

However it seems to be that coronavirus is a barrel full of ammunition for those that:
a) support close migration control
b) conceive of the nation state as the primary means of civil defence under emergency conditions.
yet where are they?
Last edited by SolarCross on 26 Mar 2020 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
#15078608
B0ycey wrote:You mean Brexiteers? Aren't you one of them? Perhaps post more.

I am more of libertarian than a petty nationalist. I hang out on a twitter some and because I do support brexit a fair amount of my followers are brexiteers and many could properly be called "petty nationalists". So far I am not seeing many of them make the obvious case for border control and the utility of independent sovereign states that coronavirus presents.
#15078620
Rich wrote:Conscripted soldiers were forced to take all sorts of things, and while I'm not keen, not keen at all on being forced to take vaccines, I doubt it wil be as dangerous to one's health as going over the top at Passchendaele. I'm quite intolerant of Liberal and Leftist fantasises, but conservative fantasies about some great lost age of liberty are equally absurd.

Liberties are not some God given right, but privileges granted by the community, that can be rescinded by the community.



They are granted by a countries constitution and they can be rescinded by the community (the state) but ultimately are decided by a higher court which upholds these constitutions.
#15078628
There is some merit to the notion that we are born free. Go out into the wild and you see nothing but freedom, in all its majestic brutality.

Liberty is not granted by constitutions or laws but constrained by them. We might well make a case that some constraints on liberty are for our own good but let us not pretend that the constraints grant liberty.

Keep it real kids.
#15078632
SolarCross wrote:Gordon Brown has crawled out of the woodwork (apparently he has a swank job at the UN now) to demand (temporary) world government to deal with coronavirus. You did not see that coming, did you Alex Jones, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... oronavirus


Jones has become much much funnier since getting banned off YouTube. Some of his best rants ever, lol.
#15078633
SolarCross wrote:There is some merit to the notion that we are born free. Go out into the wild and you see nothing but freedom, in all its majestic brutality.

Liberty is not granted by constitutions or laws but constrained by them. We might well make a case that some constraints on liberty are for our own good but let us not pretend that the constraints grant liberty.

Keep it real kids.


.
#15078641
SolarCross wrote:There is some merit to the notion that we are born free. Go out into the wild and you see nothing but freedom, in all its majestic brutality.

Liberty is not granted by constitutions or laws but constrained by them. We might well make a case that some constraints on liberty are for our own good but let us not pretend that the constraints grant liberty.

Keep it real kids.


Yes, we should keep it real.

Do we live as complete loners in the woods? No. Even hunter gatherer groups who do live in forests do not live alone. They live in groups.

So, if we define freedom as being independent of society and its obligations, we are not born free. We would actually die if that were the case, since we are entirely dependent on other humans when we are born.

So, let us keep it real, kids.

We live in groups. In order to get groups to work together, everyone has to agree on some ground rules.

Right, now, those rules are: stay home, wash your hands, only go out for necessities, stay six feet from each other, et cetera. We are doing this because old people and people with compromised immune systems will die or otherwise use an ever dwindling supply of medical resources.

But if you want to live your reality if being free by living alone in the woods, please note that it would not defy the bill mentioned in the OP.
#15078825
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, we should keep it real.

Do we live as complete loners in the woods? No. Even hunter gatherer groups who do live in forests do not live alone. They live in groups.

So, if we define freedom as being independent of society and its obligations, we are not born free. We would actually die if that were the case, since we are entirely dependent on other humans when we are born.

So, let us keep it real, kids.

We live in groups. In order to get groups to work together, everyone has to agree on some ground rules.

Right, now, those rules are: stay home, wash your hands, only go out for necessities, stay six feet from each other, et cetera. We are doing this because old people and people with compromised immune systems will die or otherwise use an ever dwindling supply of medical resources.

But if you want to live your reality if being free by living alone in the woods, please note that it would not defy the bill mentioned in the OP.

:lol:

I like living in a relatively free society but I too want us all to be clear on some ground rules:
1. No shooting people in the back of the head for thought crimes.
2. English Common Law not communist show trials
3. No taxation without representation
4. The right to leave with my property if I choose
5. No communism
cheers thanks.

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