[Stormsmith]

I am realistic because I treat women with utmost respect in person even when I don't want to.

Paul had his idea of a better world of love, but I might have a different idea of a better world in which I love to grab a woman by the butt and pussy and rub it real good. HalleluYah.

Notice the inherent contradiction.

You could make your little corner of the world a better place, instead of a cesspool.

[colliric]

The problem is not that you grab your wife by the pussy, Hindsite. So long as she likes it, and agrees to it, I don't have a problem with that. No, the problem I have with your position is that you don't seem to see anything wrong with society as it currently exists, despite the fact that Christianity has explicitly asserted that the present state of the world is a fallen one, and that a better world is both possible and desirable. You seem to reject this idea tout court as being 'unrealistic' and a 'fantasy', even though it is a fundamental aspect of Christian theology. St Paul was talking about the end of alienation, about a new world and a new society of mutual love and respect. If you regard this sort of vision as being 'unrealistic' and an absurd 'fantasy', then I'm sorry, but I must really question your credentials as a 'Christian'.

I'm sorry but he wasn't. He was talking almost exclusively about the second coming of Christ and the end of this world. His language is "lovingly" apocalyptic. Especially if you've read the book of Revelations which repeats the motif right at the end(but is talking about the end of the world and heaven).

Christianity does not teach a better world is possible, it teaches that God will take us to heaven(the new Jerusalem at the end of Revelations) or send us to Hell at the end of time. Anyone who thinks that it is about creating a better world here now, obviously hasn't read the Gospel of Matthew, Isiaah, Daniel and the book of Revelations(also called The Book of Apocalypse, more directly translated) lately.

Christians are obligated to love and try to change the world, but the religion also teaches "the world will not change, we will fail, Jesus is coming again in Judgement".

Edit:fixed

[skinster]

Okay, all this god stuff and sex stuff is a really weird combo, you freaks. Can we go back to talking about what fucking perverts a lot of men are?

Oh.

We were?

Okay.

As you were.

[Potemkin]

I don't believe that fantasy is possible until after Christ returns. Do you not understand that the evil mind of man is not going to make that fantasy world a reality?

You're certainly going to fail if you don't even try, Hindsite.

[Godstud]

Fundamentalist religious crackpots expect that the world will be OK regardless of how bad they fuck it up. Jesus will magically come down and fix the world, and not give them shit for fucking it up so bad, like when dad discovers you've messed up your room.

[Drlee]

Christians are obligated to love and try to change the world, but the religion also teaches "the world will not change, we will fail, Jesus is coming again in Judgement"

Not exactly. We are obligated to love our fellow man and try to change his/her world. Christianity is a micro rather than macro solution to the ills of the world.

[Godstud]

Right. Christians are also supposed to be the stewards of the world, not the destroyer.

[Decky]

I am still mystified as to you Protestantism Dr Lee. Your belief in actually doing something about the ills of the world clearly puts you on our side of the line (good works etc) rather the heretic Prod idea of being saved by grace alone (sitting on your arse counting your money doing nothing to help anyone). Join the largest charity in the entire world and save your soul as well as the poor.

[Drlee]

I am still mystified as to you Protestantism Dr Lee. Your belief in actually doing something about the ills of the world clearly puts you on our side of the line (good works etc) rather the heretic Prod idea of being saved by grace alone (sitting on your arse counting your money doing nothing to help anyone). Join the largest charity in the entire world and save your soul as well as the poor.

I don't think of myself as a protestant. I do not reject the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church except in one area. The ordination of women and that is not a deal breaker for me. People outside of the Roman Catholic faith do not understand the role of women in the church anyway.

My first real experience of working with the poor (other than a stint running a medical clinic in Guatemala) was with a Franciscan Monk who ran an outreach to homeless men.

I work at a clinic in what is technically a church but that church has no litany, preaches no religious sermons and does not often offer public prayer. When I attend formal church services, which is rarely because of my commitment to doing Jesus' work on Sunday, I attend Roman Catholic services.

I suppose Decky that I could be considered Catholic light; a high-church Christian who is protestant in name only.


When it comes to charity work absolutely nobody does more than the Roman Catholic Church.

[Decky]

Good enough I suppose. If you had been born in this country you would probably be a high church Anglican or something like that.

[Hindsite]

Notice the inherent contradiction.

You could make your little corner of the world a better place, instead of a cesspool.

My little piece of the world is not a cesspool. I am sad about yours. But I have enough to do here until Jesus comes back in His glory. HalleluYah.

Right. Christians are also supposed to be the stewards of the world, not the destroyer.

Your god of this world, Satan the devil, is the destroyer. Praise the Lord.

[Godstud]

I don't worship any god, dotard. Keep your wishes and sick perverse sex shit to yourself.

Atheists are interested in preserving the world for future generations.

[Potemkin]

Not exactly. We are obligated to love our fellow man and try to change his/her world. Christianity is a micro rather than macro solution to the ills of the world.

Precisely. There's also the point that the early Christians lived in what we would now call 'communes', in which all private property was held in common. The Acts of the Apostles even describes God striking dead some fake 'Christians' who joined the commune but withheld some of their private property and then lied about it. The early Christians were clearly trying to create a new kind of society, a new kind of community. In the end, of course, it didn't work out, for various reasons, not least of which was the fact that Christianity became the official state religion of the Roman Empire and therefore had to seek to preserve the existing order of things rather than overturn it. From Constantine onward, the radical social message of Christianity was lost. The Reformation just made matters worse. And so, after four centuries of Protestant 'theology', we end up with guys like Hindsite. Jesus is probably up there, sitting at the right hand of God, sighing to himself and muttering, "Why did I bother...?" Lol.

[Hindsite]

Atheists are interested in preserving the world for future generations.

Atheists want to preserve a fucked up world?

Precisely. ...And so, after four centuries of Protestant 'theology', we end up with guys like Hindsite.

You actually believe there are other guys like Hindsite?

[Godstud]

Atheists want to preserve a fucked up world?

No. That's an asinine conclusion to draw from what I said. Atheists want to preserve the world and then we can improve it. If we let it go down the drain and don't stop the problems, then it'll be that much harder to fix everything.

I know you don't give a fuck about your kids(if you had any), but most of us do. We'd like to leave our kids with a better world than the one they were born into, even if that means some work. I'm not going to rely on a myth of some holy guy magically fixing everything at some unknown point in time.

[Hindsite]

No. That's an asinine conclusion to draw from what I said. Atheists want to preserve the world and then we can improve it. If we let it go down the drain and don't stop the problems, then it'll be that much harder to fix everything.

I know you don't give a fuck about your kids(if you had any), but most of us do. We'd like to leave our kids with a better world than the one they were born into, even if that means some work. I'm not going to rely on a myth of some holy guy magically fixing everything at some unknown point in time.

If you don't teach your children Genesis 1 in the Holy Bible and of the love of Christ from the New Testament, then you don't really give a fuck about your children.

[Godstud]

If you don't teach your children Genesis 1 in the Holy Bible and of the love of Christ from the New Testament, then you don't really give a fuck about your children.

I don't teach my children idiotic myths that they don't need, in order to be good people. I teach them reality. I also don't lie to them about Santa and other myths.

I don't teach my children to treat people well or they'll be punished for eternity in hell. I teach them to be good to other people because it makes the world a better place for everyone, and people, when treated kindly and with respect, usually return it, in kind.

You don't give a fuck about your children(if you even had any), because you hate poor people and modern science because it doesn't support your myths. You want to leave the world a shithole of hatred, ignorance, and intolerance. That's love?

Sorry, I'm in Thailand. My son is learning about Buddha(but in reality he'll learn very little religion). My son is learning to be kind and tolerant of others, and not judge them like idiotic fundamentalist Christards do. He will grow up to be a fine human being... not a fine Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, etc.

[Hindsite]

:lol: I don't teach my children idiotic myths that they don't need, in order to be good people. I teach them reality. I also don't lie to them about Santa and other myths.

I don't teach my children to treat people well or they'll be punished for eternity in hell. I teach them to be good to other people because it makes the world a better place for everyone, and people, when treated kindly and with respect, usually return it, in kind.

You don't give a fuck about your children(if you even had any), because you hate poor people and modern science because it doesn't support your myths. You want to leave the world a shithole of hatred, ignorance, and intolerance. That's love?

Sorry, I'm in Thailand. My son is learning about Buddha(but in reality he'll learn very little religion). My son is learning to be kind and tolerant of others, and not judge them like idiotic fundamentalist Christards do. He will grow up to be a fine human being... not a fine Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, etc.

Okay, good luck with your delusion.

[Godstud]

Good luck with your ignorance and stupidity.

[Hindsite]

Good luck with your ignorance and stupidity.

The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.
(2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)