[Unthinking Majority]

Just a reminder that constructing racism was very important in eradicating the 150 First Nations of North America as well. It's a well-developed strategy.

But can we really call ourselves "multicultural" or "post-national" if we indulge in this? (no)

And which ethnic group is the Canadian government trying to eradicate right now? Chinese-Canadians? Recently I've seen nothing in the mainstream media or from government saying racist things about Chinese-Canadians in general, at least not for a long time.

But apparently you think the media reporting serious allegations by government intelligence officials of foreign interference by Chinese-Canadians acting on behalf of the CCP is racist. Your claim is ridiculous.

[Fasces]

Does it have to be the government? Mass immigration and multiculturalism, often called the solution to the West's demographic crisis, may also instigate a reactionary crisis. Are we witnessing the rise of far-right nationalist movements in North America and Europe as a result of this migration? Even if the government today is tolerant, is that necessarily true of the government next year?

[Pants-of-dog]

And which ethnic group is the Canadian government trying to eradicate right now? Chinese-Canadians? Recently I've seen nothing in the mainstream media or from government saying racist things about Chinese-Canadians in general, at least not for a long time.

Well, one thing I noticed is that the media is very keen to spotlight Chinese treatment of Uyghurs, while the same media does not mention the fact that Canada does the same to its own Indigenous people.

[QatzelOk]

That was farcical.

Yes, the Soviet Union was very corrupt, and the Economist estimates Putin increased the corruption by 20%. Why do you think his army is so dreadful???

Russia has never had Rule of Law. Ask Kohdorkovsky.

The way that racism-creating media works is not usally to lie too much. A bit of lying is okay though (pulling babies from incubators, gasses his own people, Saddam wants to take over the world, etc.) But lying isn't the main vehicle because some clever people might look into it.

What is much better is to accuse "the other "race"* of having negative traits that you yourself don't possess. So your sentence above suggests that Russia is CORRUPT and its Roman-Empire adversaries are not. Which is a lie of omission.

Like accusing Arabs or Slavs of using chemical weapons... without acknowledging the Western Powers use of such weapons in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.

Well, one thing I noticed is that the media is very keen to spotlight Chinese treatment of Uyghurs, while the same media does not mention the fact that Canada does the same to its own Indigenous people.

This is a great example that has local implications for many readers of this forum.

By accusing "the other" of having endulged in atrocities, and hiding your own Empire's greater reliance on the same kind of atrocities, you create a "racial difference" that simply doesn't exist.

Racial differentiation in media leads to popular racism. Wars almost always trigger this strategy, so the groups in our society that are addicted to war, are also addicted to popular racism.

[late]

The way that racism-creating media works is not usually to lie too much.

What Putin is doing could start WW3.

[Unthinking Majority]

Well, one thing I noticed is that the media is very keen to spotlight Chinese treatment of Uyghurs, while the same media does not mention the fact that Canada does the same to its own Indigenous people.

So the Canadian media hasn't been reporting on old unmarked graves found at previous residential school sites, or the inquiry on MMIWG etc?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6754634

https://globalnews.ca/news/7920118/indi ... te-report/

[Pants-of-dog]

So the Canadian media hasn't been reporting on old unmarked graves found at previous residential school sites, or the inquiry on MMIWG etc?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6754634

https://globalnews.ca/news/7920118/indi ... te-report/

Not enough to make this story commonplace like the Chinese one, no.

Many Canadian residents are not even aware of the ongoing genocide. I distinctly remember you not knowing about it. This is one of the reasons why I do not think the citizenry of western countries will actually stop western governments from committing oppression or atrocities: because it does not happen in Canada.

[Rich]

Many Canadian residents are not even aware of the ongoing genocide.

If anyone is being genocided it is Euracial people. The Amerindian population is expanding while Euracial are being replaced in just about every part of the world. For the time being it is not an active genocide, that will come later. If you want to see the future look to Rwanda, where the Tutsis were considered to be the "White" people of Rwanda. Cultural Marxist or progressive Tutsis gladly collaborated with the "down trodden" Hutsi leaders. No doubt the same thing will happen when it comes to time to implement the final solution against the "White" people.

Auschwitz didn't happen over night. It took many decades of hate against the Jewish race. And similarly it was often people of Jewish decent like Marx and Trotsky who were amongst the extreme haters of the culture of their ancestors.

[QatzelOk]

The Amerindian population is expanding while Euracial are being replaced in just about every part of the world.

First of all, though the numbers of First Nations are growing in many regions, it is in the relative absence of any kind of original culture or social structure - these things having been intentionally eradicated soon after all the Euro-diseases had run their course. Without the ability to return to some semblance of original cultural values and social structure, *numbers* don't tell the entire story.

And as for Euracial (European race?) numbers going down... remember, the number of Spanish, Portugese, and Anglos skyrocketed following the genocides in the Americas and Australia. So if they are dropping now and First Nations numbers are climbing... is this a negative or positive?

Mind you, the expanding numbers of First Nations only becomes meaningful when First Nations can control immigration policies in the lands in which they live. This is probably the next big Idle No More. Because without it, the First Nations will be "replaced again" by people with no attachment or knowledge of their cultures or history.

Western media has never owned up to its role in creating racism against First Nations, OR in encouraging immigration as a way of drowning out local political autonomy.

[Unthinking Majority]

Not enough to make this story commonplace like the Chinese one, no.

The stories were all over the news. This is pretty subjective.

Many Canadian residents are not even aware of the ongoing genocide. I distinctly remember you not knowing about it. This is one of the reasons why I do not think the citizenry of western countries will actually stop western governments from committing oppression or atrocities: because it does not happen in Canada.[/quote]

What current methods of genocide are you referring to?

[Pants-of-dog]

The stories were all over the news. This is pretty subjective.

What current methods of genocide are you referring to?

Since you are not aware of the answer to your question, but are aware of how the Chinese have dome similar things to Uyghurs, it is logical to assume that you either paid more attention to the articles about China, or the media did not spread the Canada story as well as the China one.

[Unthinking Majority]

Since you are not aware of the answer to your question, but are aware of how the Chinese have dome similar things to Uyghurs, it is logical to assume that you either paid more attention to the articles about China, or the media did not spread the Canada story as well as the China one.

There's a number of genocidal actions towards indigenous people that people refer to, in fact i recently posted a link to one in a reply to you, i'm just asking which specifically you're referring to, I can't read your mind.

I do think there's definitely similarities between past residential schools in Canada and the Uyghur "re-education" prison sites, as well as the reports of forced sterilization of indigenous women that still happens, though this doesn't seem as wide-scale or state-directed as what the CCP is doing.

[Pants-of-dog]

There's a number of genocidal actions towards indigenous people that people refer to, in fact i recently posted a link to one in a reply to you, i'm just asking which specifically you're referring to, I can't read your mind.

I do think there's definitely similarities between past residential schools in Canada and the Uyghur "re-education" prison sites, as well as the reports of forced sterilization of indigenous women that still happens, though this doesn't seem as wide-scale or state-directed as what the CCP is doing.

Why do you think Canada is somehow different or better?

But getting back to the point: Look at the threads in this forum devoted to the Chinese treatment of Uyghurs. Fortunately, we have many examples of people standing up for the downtrodden. Now, compare this to the threads discussing Canadian genocide of Indigenous people.

It would be incorrect to suggest they are even remotely the same.

[Unthinking Majority]

Why do you think Canada is somehow different or better?

Compared to Canada in the past, they aren't really any different. Wrong is wrong.

But getting back to the point: Look at the threads in this forum devoted to the Chinese treatment of Uyghurs. Fortunately, we have many examples of people standing up for the downtrodden. Now, compare this to the threads discussing Canadian genocide of Indigenous people.

It would be incorrect to suggest they are even remotely the same.

Do you think the current or very recent actions via Canadian government policy amounting to genocide against its indigenous peoples are on the same scale as what has been happening to the Uyghurs by the state?

If the Canadian government had been operating the large-scale residential schools programs in 2023 i think we would hear about it. Its not like we didn't hear about Gitmo, or bad things the Israelis sometimes do to Palestinians.

I do think its often easier for anyone to point fingers at other people and demonize them, but you're greatly overstating the scale of the similarities in this example.

[Pants-of-dog]

Compared to Canada in the past, they aren't really any different. Wrong is wrong.

But you are certain that Canada no longer does this while China continues this oppression.

Do you think the current or very recent actions via Canadian government policy amounting to genocide against its indigenous peoples are on the same scale as what has been happening to the Uyghurs by the state?

If the Canadian government had been operating the large-scale residential schools programs in 2023 i think we would hear about it. Its not like we didn't hear about Gitmo, or bad things the Israelis sometimes do to Palestinians.

I do think its often easier for anyone to point fingers at other people and demonize them, but you're greatly overstating the scale of the similarities in this example.

My point was that the amount of conversation devoted to Chinese treatment of Uyghurs on this forum vastly outweighs the amount devoted to Canadian treatment of Indigenous people. You seem to have no argument or rebuttal to this.

Moving on to this new point, you seem to be claiming that the scale of oppression is vastly different; i.e. that Chinese oppression of Uyghurs is much higher than Canadian oppression of Indigenous people here. Why do you think this?

[Unthinking Majority]

But you are certain that Canada no longer does this while China continues this oppression.

I never said that. I said they don't operate a large scale residential school system anymore. Examples of some racist doctor, or maybe even a hospital with numerous racist doctors, sterilizing some indigenous people can be found. I don't really know of any large scale institutional-led genocidal policies. If you know them please name them.

My point was that the amount of conversation devoted to Chinese treatment of Uyghurs on this forum vastly outweighs the amount devoted to Canadian treatment of Indigenous people. You seem to have no argument or rebuttal to this.

It may be true, or untrue. I'm not sure. You and @QatzelOk seem to talk about it a lot, but lets assume its true, at least among non-Canadians.

Moving on to this new point, you seem to be claiming that the scale of oppression is vastly different; i.e. that Chinese oppression of Uyghurs is much higher than Canadian oppression of Indigenous people here. Why do you think this?

In terms of currently occurring genocide, yes. Why do you think its not true? You keep making claims about current genocide of indigenous being comparable to Uyghur genocide and yet have not provided any evidence or argument about why this is true. Please provide the evidence, otherwise this claim can be rejected.

[Rich]

In World War II the western allies, fire bombed cities, dropped nuclear weapons, imprisoned Germans without trial, including Jewish Germans that had fled Nazi persecution, put Japanese into concentration camps and tried to starve German and Italian occupied Europe into submission, despite the fact that the majority of the population they were trying to starve to death opposed the Nazis. 3 million died in the Bengal famine, apparently that was just an accident. And then there was all the stuff the Commies had got up to before and during world war 2.

Hence there was a big need from a public relations perspective to find some way of differentiating the allies and the Communists from their German and Japanese opponents. Hence the meme of genocide. Of course the plain fact of the matter was that nothing the Germans or Japanese did during World War 2 was morally in the slightest bit new, in fact they were just carrying on in exactly the same way humans have carried on from long before they even became human beings. Even the obsessive hunting down and killing of children like Anne Frank because of their descent was nothing new as anyone who watched game of thrones should have been made aware.

It always amuses me that so many people seem think that the term genocide was invented to stop the mass extermination of human beings, when in fact it was invented to justify it. And it worked. So now every enemy must be Hitler. That's why you get these pathetic Liberals who insist on referring to Putin as Putler. Every opponent must be committing genocide.

I've been hard line anti the Chinese regime since before it was fashionable. In the same way that I was anti Islam before it became fashionable with a few of the more radical rogue liberals. But the case for genocide against the Uyghurs always seemed pretty weak sauce to me.

[Pants-of-dog]

…I don't really know of any large scale institutional-led genocidal policies. If you know them please name them.

Exactly my point: you can say with confidence that the Chinese are doing this while you cannot say the same about Canada. This, presumably, is because you read more news stories about the Chinese mistreatment than about Canadian mistreatment.

It may be true, or untrue. I'm not sure. You and @QatzelOk seem to talk about it a lot, but lets assume its true, at least among non-Canadians.

I assume non-Canadians are even more ignorant about Canadian genocide, yes. But the average Canadian is also far more aware of Chinese atrocities than Canadian ones.

In terms of currently occurring genocide, yes. Why do you think its not true? You keep making claims about current genocide of indigenous being comparable to Uyghur genocide and yet have not provided any evidence or argument about why this is true. Please provide the evidence, otherwise this claim can be rejected.

Feel free to reject this claim.

Now, I had asked you why you think that Chinese oppression of Uyghurs is much higher than Canadian oppression of Indigenous people here. The answer seems to be that you are aware of the evidence showing Chinese malfeasance, but are not aware of the evidence for the Canadian problem. Can you please confirm that?

[QatzelOk]

...It always amuses me that so many people seem think that the term genocide was invented to stop the mass extermination of human beings, when in fact it was invented to justify it...

Yes, and you could say the same thing about the word "sin" - that it was invented in order to justify atrocities (sins on a mass scale).

By accusing the First Nations of being sinners, by judging their cultures to be sin-based... European Catholics, Protestants and Jews were able to commit atrocities against them - guilt-free.

Likewise, the Palestinians seem to be "paying" for the "genocides" of the Third Reich by being genocided-without-mercy.

This is why powerful media propaganda (religious and commercial) should be questionned, and not followed.

***

All the propaganda supporting the Dalai Lama and the Ughgyurs coming from the genocidal West... is an interesting phenomenom that China should respond to by pumping lots of resources and "information" into First Nations revival.

This way, China could make the West pay for their thinly-veiled lies and hypocrisy - while doing a very good deed at the same time.

[Unthinking Majority]

Exactly my point: you can say with confidence that the Chinese are doing this while you cannot say the same about Canada. This, presumably, is because you read more news stories about the Chinese mistreatment than about Canadian mistreatment.

You have changed the goalposts from "genocide" to "mistreatment" and "oppression". The latter can refer to anything, like land claims/treaty rights or pipelines or racist cop abuse or who knows what. You have not even defined what you refer to so how can I compare that which you can't define, or point to anyone else who has defined it?

When I just asked you to define what you're talking about you ignored the question or tried to deflect by saying "see, you don't even know its happening". But you won't even define it yourself, or point to links. Maybe if there's a human rights organization that can point out what you're talking about that would be helpful. My assumption is that you won't make any specific references to what you claim as ongoing genocide of indigenous people in Canada because your claims are greatly overstated and you can't back them up so you continue to be purposefully vague.

If you'll define the current indigenous genocide you claim is still occurring we can continue the discussion. If you continue to refuse I don't see any constructive reason to continue this discussion and will no longer respond.

I assume non-Canadians are even more ignorant about Canadian genocide, yes. But the average Canadian is also far more aware of Chinese atrocities than Canadian ones.

Atrocities towards aboriginals have been in the news headlines constantly the last several years, from the TRC to the inquiry on MMIWG to the residential school graves to poor water conditions to the 2020 railway protests over gas pipelines and land rights. Canada now even has a new national "holiday" designed to focus on Truth and Reconciliation with Indigenous peoples. I just don't agree with your argument.

Now, I had asked you why you think that Chinese oppression of Uyghurs is much higher than Canadian oppression of Indigenous people here. The answer seems to be that you are aware of the evidence showing Chinese malfeasance, but are not aware of the evidence for the Canadian problem. Can you please confirm that?

I never said "oppression of Uyghurs is much higher than Canadian oppression of Indigenous people". I said current state-led genocide of Indigenous in Canada isn't as high as current state-led genocide of Uyghurs.