[Potemkin]

Tainari is also suggesting that USA has moral obligation to take in migrants because of the consequences of US foreign policy. As a moral perspectivist surely you do not think one necessarily obliges the other.

I think her position is that they have no moral right to condemn the immigrants for trying to escape the atrocious conditions in their home countries, because those conditions are atrocious in large measure because of past US interference in the internal affairs of those countries. Suntzu was certainly doing this, and Tainari was pointing out that it is not a morally acceptable position.

[One Degree]

The problem with the justification is it is applied as a justification for all immigrants giving an overall view of ‘innocent victim’ that is unrealistic. Politicians and the self righteous run with such nonsense, so it must be downplayed.You can acknowledge US wrongs and still understand a lot of these immigrants are not nice people. It does not matter whose fault it is if they are criminals wanting to prey on your citizens. Blame will do nothing to change them. Corrections need aimed at prevention for future people.

[Tainari88]

@One Degree I don't know where you get your information--I worked in a city here that has thousands of refugees and Latino undocumented people. It is considered the 6th safest city in America. Trump did a study trying to prove refugees were a financial burden to the USA, and when it was proving the opposite was true he defunded it. The idiot lies constantly.

I think of Suntzu when I see this video:

@suntzu are you the old racist One? Tell the truth now.

[One Degree]

People are people. You can’t base policy decisions on labeling them as a group good or bad. Our immigration decisions should be based upon what is best for us, not on what is best for the immigrants.
US wrongs must be addressed separately because they can not undo anything for the current immigrants. They can only stop future problems.

[Suntzu]

@One Degree I don't know where you get your information--I worked in a city here that has thousands of refugees and Latino undocumented people. It is considered the 6th safest city in America. Trump did a study trying to prove refugees were a financial burden to the USA, and when it was proving the opposite was true he defunded it. The idiot lies constantly.

I think of Suntzu when I see this video:

@suntzu are you the old racist One? Tell the truth now.

Tainari88?

[Tainari88]

Ask @Potemkin how I look... I would not be sending an old racist my photos. Hee hee. Suntzu.

I think you have a twin brother in Cook county. Lol.

You really have no redeeming qualities. Got to think for a long time to try to find something good about you....it is hard.

[Suntzu]

Ask @Potemkin how I look... I would not be sending an old racist my photos. Hee hee. Suntzu.

I think you have a twin brother in Cook county. Lol.

You really have no redeeming qualities. Got to think for a long time to try to find something good about you....it is hard.

That's it!

[Albert]

I think her position is that they have no moral right to condemn the immigrants for trying to escape the atrocious conditions in their home countries, because those conditions are atrocious in large measure because of past US interference in the internal affairs of those countries. Suntzu was certainly doing this, and Tainari was pointing out that it is not a morally acceptable position.

I'm going to look bad asking this, but I'm trying to make a broader point. Do you think (as a moral perspectivist) it is morally unacceptable to condemn immigrant that leave desperate situation in part created by USA? Instead of them staying and attempting to improve their own condition.

[Tainari88]

People are people. You can’t base policy decisions on labeling them as a group good or bad. Our immigration decisions should be based upon what is best for us, not on what is best for the immigrants.
US wrongs must be addressed separately because they can not undo anything for the current immigrants. They can only stop future problems.

This is precisely why I am an internationalist. You can't hide from issues created in other countries one degree. If there is pollution in China the winds reach California. If there is violence in Mexico or C.A. It is going to spill over into the Southwestern states. If P.R. gets hit with hurricanes hundreds of thousands of Ricans will be registering to vote in Florida elections.
If some poor state is bankrupt those poor people will move to a more prosperous state. In fact, being 'I only care about my corner of the world'?It goes,against international capital. They won't allow it. International capitalists love low wage scab style workers and pit working poor people against each other all the time, and the people who are only concerned about their own small community get taken for a ride easily by them.

Is Coca-Cola only present in the USA? No. Why not? They interfere everywhere because the name of the game is expand or die.

[Suntzu]

I'm going to look bad asking this, but I'm trying to make a broader point. Do you think (as a moral perspectivist) it is morally unacceptable to condemn immigrant that leave desperate situation in part created by USA? Instead of them staying and attempting to improve their own condition.

No.

[Tainari88]

I'm going to look bad asking this, but I'm trying to make a broader point. Do you think (as a moral perspectivist) it is morally unacceptable to condemn immigrant that leave desperate situation in part created by USA? Instead of them staying and attempting to improve their own condition.

p
You could make the same argument about Dr Lee's Scottish ancestors, Ronald Reagan's Irish ancestors, and all the tired oppressed European masses yearning to breathe free. Why didn't you stay home and fight it out? Why leave Sicily and do The Godfather with Al Pacino in New York?

And all those Scotch-Irish super duper poor who never made it in the American Appalachian scene? Did they get to middle class status yet? Why not? Defective Scotch-Irish culture (blame it on the culture)...that is what dumb racists do.

[Drlee]

People are people. You can’t base policy decisions on labeling them as a group good or bad. Our immigration decisions should be based upon what is best for us, not on what is best for the immigrants.

Immigrants are, by definition, us.

I am for strict immigration laws. People should earn the privilege of immigrating to the US. That said, we are dancing around the elephant in the room. What about those who are here, own homes, have citizen children, etc. The republicans don't want them to have a path to citizenship because they are afraid they will vote. These days, a republican's greatest fear is democracy.

It is too bad really. I remember a time when republicans believed in one-man-one-vote. I remember when a republican president started the EPA. I remember when republicans, like Dr. Martin Luther King, marched for civil rights. Now it is a party of fascist, racist ninnyhammers. Fuck fake news. Get rid of the fake Christians.

[Suntzu]

Why should the folks who live in a country have any say in who comes there?

[Tainari88]

I say anyone as racist as you are @Suntzu with weak and no analysis arguments should get deported and forced to get bitten by mosquitoes Survivor style...

Just sit there and be by your lonesome hate filled self.

[Tainari88]

:eh: Immigrants are, by definition, us.

I am for strict immigration laws. People should earn the privilege of immigrating to the US. That said, we are dancing around the elephant in the room. What about those who are here, own homes, have citizen children, etc. The republicans don't want them to have a path to citizenship because they are afraid they will vote. These days, a republican's greatest fear is democracy.

It is too bad really. I remember a time when republicans believed in one-man-one-vote. I remember when a republican president started the EPA. I remember when republicans, like Dr. Martin Luther King, marched for civil rights. Now it is a party of fascist, racist ninnyhammers. Fuck fake news. Get rid of the fake Christians.

If you study immigration carefully it is about powerful economic interests combined with geopolitical goals.

The USA isn't investing in programs that prepare young people for a future Dr. Lee they are allowing banks to cannibalize the possibilities. Too much lying about everything that isn't violent high profit margin is bad.

Most people are not wealthy and they can be working full time.

People leave their native lands due to lack of hope. They don't see change. I covered all the reasons why people usually immigrate. Some of it based on total lies. In Latin America people are exposed to an extremely distorted version of what the USA is like.

I think Americans are imperialists. As such they expect the rest of the world to conform to them. In the end that blinds them to their own defects and they wind upseverely underestimating what other nations are capable of.

After all didn't they learn that they are composed mostly of a lot of poor, desperate immigrants, desperate for something better. If they think they are somehow better than their working class and lowest of the low roots and do not realize that the world is made up of mostly tough minded, creative and decent low class people?

Then they will join the nation's who.pursued Empire and lost because they are non believers in the poor. They start believing in bullshit about wealth that is not valid. The ancient Greeks had a name for it. Homer from the Iliad mentions it--It is called. Hubris. It fells them every time.

[Suntzu]

I say anyone as racist as you are @Suntzu with weak and no analysis arguments should get deported and forced to get bitten by mosquitoes Survivor style...

Just sit there and be by your lonesome hate filled self.

I'm getting the old airplane ready to fly to Oshkosh and AirVenture, world largest fly-in. I'm going to camp under the airplane for a week so there might be some mosquitoes. I will be thinking of you as I walk around looking at old airplanes built by White folks.

[One Degree]

All internationalists are imperialists due to hubris and other human flaws. They are never satisfied with cooperation, they always demand top down control. We should solve problems one community at a time and encourage cooperation for mutual benefit, not control and indoctrination.
It makes no sense to have all US people concentrated in large metro areas just as it makes no sense to move all people to the US and Europe. The solutions must be found in every community one by one. We need more successfully designed communities, not international dictated uniformity.

[Reichstraten]

I never met a person pleaing for all people to come to Europe or the United States.
Who are these imaginary people who want this?

[One Degree]

I never met a person pleaing for all people to come to Europe or the United States.
Who are these imaginary people who want this?

Global capitalists.

[Suntzu]

Global capitalists.

Or just the mega rich. They want cheap labor. They live in villas and gated neighborhoods and send their kids to exclusive private schools. Dealing with the problems created by immigrants is for the poor.