[CasX]

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1 ... 43,00.html

At least 1,500 people were executed worldwide last year, with 80 percent of all known executions carried out in China, Iran and the United States, Amnesty International said. The London-based human rights group also expressed concern that U.S. military tribunals, which will prosecute so-called terrorist suspects have the power to impose death sentences, which cannot be appealed. Amnesty also denounced the United States for executing three death row prisoners last year, who were convicted for crimes committed when they were under age 18, a practice which clearly violates international law. Some 111 countries have abolished the death penalty in law or in practice but it is still imposed in 83 countries.

[Boondock Saint]

Yea, I used to support the death penalty but there is just way too much chance in it ... way too many people have been found not guilty while on death row ...

I say abolish the death penalty ... it doesnt work and it winds up costing more money then not.

[Demosthenes]

Well I am not ashamed to say that I am for the death penalty when it applies to multiple murderers, seriel killers, and child molesters(no their is no current law applying the death penalty to these monsters) . Most of these people prove themselves to be incurable and unrehabilitatable. (is that really a word?) There is no excuse for not protecting our child from such demons. I would rather err on the side of caution and deal with the moral decesion when I get to meet God myself.

I know, someone will ask me well who decides who fits this category. It's simple, Multiple murderers are obvious 99% of the time, as are seriel killers when they're caught. As to child molesters I simply have no tolerance for that. My guess would be: If convicted of more than one count you face life imprisonment, at some point when you face parole you get a choice: stay in prison, or live under as much supervision as possible with no contact with children under 18, and with the idea that if you are ever convicted again you're dead no contest.

To clarify pedophilia is defined according to our leagal system as sex with children under 13. Statutory rape is sex consenting or not with children ages 13-17. The death penalty should not apply to Statutory rapists.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

I'm for the idea of using criminals for labour instead of the death penalty, unless they're total crazed psychopaths that won't obey. I think the worse the crime committed, the harder and more unpleasant work the criminal should be given. They are giving no active service to the people while sitting in overflowing prisons.

But if they are beyond hope, Kill 'em. By FIRING SQUAD. Hee heeee!

Sorry, I've been drinking.

[Adrien]

Yep, i'm also for labour instead of death penalty, and even instead of prison in general: prison brings nothing good to the prisonner, it even often makes him more bad. With labour, the prisonner would do something more useful than sitting in his cell all day long.

The only problem is that this idea requires a building site that needs to be finished, a construction project, ... In one word, a intelligent work to give the convicts, because sending them break rocks in the middle of nowhere just to make them work is quite stupid.

[Boondock Saint]

Well the problem with using prisoners for labor is ...

-- What is the difference between forced labor and slavery? This would be a serious sticking point here in the US.

-- If the prisons do labor for free then what kind of contracts do they get? Do they get gov't contracts? Like clearing out a rural area for a new road? Does that not take work away from private contractors? Therefore taking work away from construction workers? Labor unions are against this type of labor ... it takes money out their pockets and food off their tables.

I say we put prisons on islands.

[Adrien]

The difference here would be that the labour for the prisonners would voluntarily be a punishement: the prisonner did something bad, and this forced labour is his sentence. With slavery, slaves didn't do nothing wrong, and where forced to work because of their birth.

Well those prisonners could be used as a help, when no workers are available, or on a project that they rejected because it was not prioritary and not important and that they had more important constructions to do. They could also be used for what we call here "travail d'interet général", which are details: cleaning graffitis on public buildings, repainting something, repairing damaged public facilities,...

I know that here there's never anybody to do it, it would be a good help.

[Seamus Warren]

Yea, I used to support the death penalty but there is just way too much chance in it ... way too many people have been found not guilty while on death row ...

Plus, some guilty people could be found innocent because some jurors won't want to sentence a man to his death when there is even the tiniest bit of doubt in their mind. Without the pressure of a death penatly, they may find some defendants guilty.

BTW: Prisoners make a good slave labour force that can undercut labour costs on the "outside" and this means less jobs out in the community. I think some private prisons in the US have started skilling prisoners and getting them to work on assembly lines building PCs or whatever.

This captive labour force plus about ten million illegal Mexicans (or whatever it is) must be a boon for the economy. I haven't even read 1984 but I'm thinking "Orwellian".

I'd like to know what crimes warrant the death penalty in nations around the world. I have read that Homosexuals are beheaded in Saudi Arabia and "Adulterous" women are stoned to death in other parts of the world.

[Boondock Saint]

Comrade ... let me reply to that with ...

-- If it fits in a certain society then by all means use it ... but I cant see that working out here in the US due to the power of the labor unions ...

Not that powerful labor unions are a bad thing mind you.

[Adrien]

Yes, some societies may not accept this idea, and if we take this idea alone it's comprehensible, but if this idea comes as a part of a total change in these societies (like the passage to a communist/socialist one) it may work for all, don't you think?

[edit: of course, i don't see the US coming to socialism/communism, but it was not in the particular case of the US, i was speaking more generally.]

[Boondock Saint]

I take your point and agree, forced labor utilizing prison populations imho is a good idea for any socialist state.

Its a great way to do labor intensive jobs while saving money and keeping prisoners busy.

[uglygoat]

the origianal stat only counts actual government documented executions, right? not the kind where somebody just disappears off the street and they're never seen again, like in chile, or peru or even iraq. it's interesting, but i'm sure amnesty international grills those other repressive tin pot dictators admirably...

as for the death penalty, here in the states, it's applied unevenly, favoring those who can afford a good lawyer, or are smart enough to take a plea, reducing their sentence. added to that the inherent problems mentioned above with jurys. the death penalty doesn't aim at rehabilitation, like forced labor would suggest. i'd be interested to know the rate of ricidivism amonst those sentenced to forced labor... it's hard to take an historical model of china or ussr, as most there died while working.

[Proctor]

We already have this thread by the way:
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23

And everyone should read 1984. Or at least Animal Farm.

[Seamus Warren]

We already have this thread by the way:
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23

And everyone should read 1984. Or at least Animal Farm.

And isn't there another book called "The Republik"?

[Demosthenes]

not the kind where somebody just disappears off the street and they're never seen again,

Political executions are wrong ALL the time. Only possible exception in my opinion is the case of treason. Real treason not some politically motivated mock up of treason.

as most there died while working

As long as your talking about those criminal I stated above than working them to death suits the purpose just fine. This should not apply to lesser criminals.

I agree with Boondock about the practicality in thye US. The labor unions wouldn't allow it at all. You'd have to show the profit from such labor to people before they would ever go for it. Such as offsetting taxes or something. (i.e. you generate 1 million in profit, this reduces the state's tax liability by that same amount. I'm just guessing here.

[uglygoat]

As long as your talking about those criminal I stated above than working them to death suits the purpose just fine. This should not apply to lesser criminals.

i was referencing the labor camps of the soviet era and the rule of mao. but only cause of all the 'reds' on the board. now most of these prisoners were 'political' prisoners or 'counter revolutionaries' sent off to work untill they fulfilled their sentence or died. i'd imagine there were a fair amount of murderers rapists and the like in that group as well, but far and wide, the majority were made up of those who didn't fit into the soviet model/attempt of 'socialism'.

as for our convicted felons, i don't see a problem with working them while they're in prison. having them be productive assumes, imo, that they are rehabilitatable, and worth the time and effort.

i am of a mind that child molestors should never be free to roam the streets, but i'm biased cause i don't want those pukes near my family, reformed or not!!!

[Demosthenes]

Yeah ok, whatever. [SF note: indeed... Yukons post has now "vanished"]

I was referencing the labor camps of the soviet era and the rule of mao. but only cause of all the 'reds' on the board. now most of these prisoners were 'political' prisoners or 'counter revolutionaries' sent off to work untill they fulfilled their sentence or died. i'd imagine there were a fair amount of murderers rapists and the like in that group as well, but far and wide, the majority were made up of those who didn't fit into the soviet model/attempt of 'socialism'.

Well ok then I dont think that's a legitimate use for the death penalty. At least in the ideal sense. As far as practice that probably happens everywhere.

i am of a mind that child molestors should never be free to roam the streets, but i'm biased cause i don't want those pukes near my family, reformed or not!!!

Point taken and bear in mind my solution wouldn't allow them anywhere near children.

[Cloud14044]

That is ridiculous. The U.S. shouldn't be executing any minors. Personally, I believe that the Death Penalty should be reserved for people who simply cannot be stopped with Jail or Treason.

[Demosthenes]

Who are you talking to? I never said anything about executing minors, maybe you misread something.

[ahab]

Amnesty also denounced the United States for executing three death row prisoners last year, who were convicted for crimes committed when they were under age 18, a practice which clearly violates international law.

*cough*