[Sweeper]

Could this mean Putin is actually a Soviet Communist in disguise? But he can't reveal his true colors just yet? This is interesting to read indeed. Perhaps there's some light at the end of our tunnel after all comrades?

I didn't read all of this, but according to what I have heard, is that Putin is a former KGB operative.
Yes, it was commented loud and openly before Christmas on TV.
They even got a comment from his former superior officer.
So what am I suggesting with this?
Well I guess that you see the link allready, I am just drawing a line here between Putin and Vassili Zaitsev's "Communist in disquise" post, nothing else.

[Putinist]

First of all, let me just say that's it funny that no-one has yet managed to refute my claims about the staged "August coup" of 1991.

____________________________________________________


Comrade Vassili,

Okay Putinist, I have a question. If you say Gorbachev's role was to start in motion the "Final Phase" plan. Could you clarify exactly what is Putin's role in it? Is he the leader who will bring the final phase plan into its "final phase" and restore the Soviet Union? Or is that still a long ways off?

First of all I did not say that Gorbachev's role was to start in motion the "Final Phase" plan. Anatoliy Golitsyn said that, in both of his books. I just told you about it.

Golitsyn is very specific about the characters involved in the Final Phase. If you note my/Epstein's earlier comments about an "inner" and an "outer" KGB, you will know what I mean. The defector has predicted that, to see through the plan successfully, three leaders will emerge to outsee the operation.


1. Mikhail Sergeiovich Gorbachev.

"Gorby" was named directly in his first book, alongside a second candidate called Aleksandr Shelepin, who was a former KGB mastermind (see: above). Gorbachev was active at the time when Golitsyn was writing, so it was fairly easily to predict his rise to power. Prior to Gorbachev, the Soviets had always picked old leaders who would die quickly - and there's a reason for that. Now I don't have the actual quotes on hand, but I can give you a rough idea of what Golitsyn said. "A new, younger, more liberal-minded individual with little or no experience with the KGB or espionage, who will come across as a reformer". Golitsyn named Gorbachev. The hearts and minds of the Kremlin were set on Gorbachev. So Gorbachev it was.


2. Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin.

Boris "Vodkayevich" Yeltsin had a saying; "Russian history has light phases and tragic phases". As the annoyingly right-wing political commentator J. R. Nyquist commented in his May 8, 2000, article Russia Darkening Into a Tragic Phase; "The heavy-drinking Yeltsin provided Russia with a light phase after the long and humourless Soviet-era". Yeltsin, like his predecessor, was also foreseen by Golitsyn to be a big reformer, a liberal, a staunch anti-communist, etc.. Yeltsin has fulfilled all of these things. Do you remember in 1993, when he announced that he was scrapping the infamous KGB secret police organization (although in reality he just renamed them the "Federal Security Bureau" - or the "FSB")? That was your typical Yeltsin - a loather of the old Communist symbols and great regretter of the Soviet-era. He was overt about this. For me, no-one quite pulled off their roles as well as Yeltsin – Gorby and "Pootie" both have made huge slip-ups.


3. Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

The most alarming of Golitsyn's three predictions, Putin came to power on the back of a lifelong occupation as a KGB officer, and a true Soviet-era careerist. It was this knowledge that, upon his appointment as Acting President and later President that made Washington sit up and take notice, and hold two top-level meetings about what to expect from this new Russian leader respectively. I myself instantly saw somewhat of a "darker", more hidden side to this "Putin" gentleman when he first appeared on Western television stations in 1999. Now, ironically, I see him as a beacon of light for us all. Notice how Yeltsin actually named Putin as his successor, and how the election were tilted in his favour through vote-rigging, the FSB-controlled defamation campaign against the Chechens and Russian Muslims, etc.. As I said above, Golitsyn was predicting that, at the very end of the ten-year period of deception (and if you're wondering why we are now in the twelve year and are thinking of commenting on that in the next reply then to find the explanation please reread my comments throughout this thread to find out why I think we are still here under a sole, capitalist superpower), a much more serious, less-liberal, less light-hearted leader would come to power - initially and officially as a capitalist, but would later turn communist to see out the final phase of the Final Phase - the total annihilation of America and Lenin's world revolution. Let me now quote again from the Nyquist article;

On December 7, 2000, the year of his election, Putin immediately spoke of bringing the former Soviet states together. But he was careful in his statement. He would not alarm the West with the overt return of the Soviet Union. That would be counterproductive.

The Soviet Union will be put back together only after a crisis, when America has offended Russia's honour. As Vladimir Putin said during a February 7, 2000, interview on Russian television; "Whoever offends us will last not longer than three days".



After this fashion, a light phase of Russian history darkens into a tragic phase.

You can't get more accurate than that. Call Golitsyn wrong now.

____________________________________________________


Comrade Berkut,

Putinist: This was a very loooooooooooooooooooooong reading I just made through the whole topic, interesting.....but

Believe me, the tanks and aircraft that they are secretly housing there outnumber the US 9 to 1.

I'd like to believe you, but you have to admit that it is pretty hard same goes for this whole idea of a "secret plan".

That's understandable. We look to the "former" Soviet Union today, a shattered empire torn-to-pieces by the introduction of capitalism and Westernism, and what do we see? Like me, you will see a once-strong Soviet/Russian army struggling to cope with a small (Kremlin-controlled) uprising of a Dagestani ethnic minority in the south of the country. We also see Soviet-era tanks rusting in Iraq, and their remaining best weaponry being sold-off. Just today, we heard that a Soviet-era airliner lost one of its side today over Congo, causing some 100 passengers to go flying out of the airplane, all dying. Only the cabin crew survived - and they didn't even know that there was anything wrong until they touched down at Kinshasa Airport!

But it's what you don't see that's the real pleaser;


Russian War Preparations

1. Moscow has outfitted hundreds of fighter-bombers with additional fuel tanks and in-flight refuelling capability, augmenting Russia's intercontinental strike capability.

2. Russia has been constructing large numbers of military transport aircraft for foreign customers who do not exist.

3. Russia has been building and accumulating dry docks even though, at the moment, no foreign customers for them exist.

4. Russia has recently fielded a new battle tank; a new state-of-the-art fighter; super-quiet submarines which can engage sea, land and air targets simultaneously; a new attack helicopter and sniper rifle.

5. Russia has developed a revolutionary new rifle-fired infantry weapon, the so-called vacuum grenade, which can give a single Russian soldier the firepower of a 155mm howitzer. Russia has begun joint production of this weapon with the Chinese.

6. Russia now emphasizes the production of mobile ICBMs like the Topol-M, which are designed to evade satellite detection, permitting the Russians to cheat on arms control agreements.

7. Russia continues to develop biological and chemical weapons, sometimes with the use of US funds. According to recent defectors, Russia is now working on a super-plague weapon.

8. Russian diplomacy is clearly attempting to build an anti-American alliance which includes countries like China, North Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iran, and India.

9. Russian Spetsnaz commandos continue to train with suitcase nukes against US targets.

10. Russia is hoarding strategic metals which are vital for keeping up war production through the first months of a nuclear world war.

11. Russia is importing more food than needed for domestic consumption. At the same time, Russia has constructed huge underground nuclear-proof food storage facilities.

12. Russia has developed an impressive engineering rescue capability, organized into special military formations positioned outside large cities, for rescuing citizens trapped beneath rubble in the event of a nuclear attack.

13. Recent Russian movies and pop songs depict Americans as stupid animals who deserve to die. In keeping with this theme, NATO is depicted as an aggressive alliance, sometimes likened to Hitler's Third Reich.

14. Russia is building huge underground cities, like the one at Yamantau Mountain in the Urals. These cities are built more than a thousand feet into the earth and are able to withstand direct nuclear attack.

15. Russia has been modernizing nuclear bunkers located beneath Moscow.

16. Russia has erected a system of national missile defence far beyond that allowed by the 1972 ABM Treaty. Deploying approximately 10,000 dual-purpose mobile SAM/ABMs, Russia has used a loophole in the treaty to provide a powerful missile shield. Using a common-sense approach to ABM defence, Russia's interceptor missiles employ special nuclear warheads that can destroy incoming warheads without having to score a direct head-on hit.

17. Russia is also ahead of the United States in directed energy weapons that could be used to blind or destroy US early warning satellites.

18. Many of Russia's mafia organizations operate in collaboration with, or under the supervision of, military intelligence and the state security services. Organized crime is used to penetrate Western banks, technology companies, law enforcement and government. Routes used for smuggling drugs and other contraband are reserved in wartime for bringing biological, chemical and nuclear weapons into the US.


Chinese War Preparations

1. Civil defence drills began in major Chinese cities around July 2000.

2. Chinese military commanders have been told that nuclear war with America could begin at any time.

3. China has been developing and deploying new road-mobile long range missiles like the DF-31 and DF-41.

4. China is modernizing its navy, purchasing advanced Russian warships and missiles capable of sinking U.S. carriers.

5. China has been rapidly building a large store of advanced nuclear warheads.

6. China has positioned bases to block the main western entry point into the Pacific, and has acquired indirect control of the Panama Canal through front companies.

7. China has formed military ties with Cuba and Venezuela.

8. China has also penetrated Sudan, and is spreading missile and nuclear technology to rogue states in Africa and the Middle East.

9. China has massed troops, aircraft, ships and missiles opposite Taiwan.

10. China has engaged in war exercises during which U.S. forces in the Pacific were targeted by Chinese forces.


American War Preparations

1. No civil defence.

2. No national missile defence.

3. No road or rail-mobile ICBMs.

4. Abandonment of the Panama Canal.

5. US officials have allowed nuclear warhead secrets to leak out to China.

6. The US pays Russia billions of dollars to encourage disarmament measures, but these billions are diverted to Russian war preparations.

7. The US Navy is short of fuel.

8. The US Army is short of recruits and officers, and has only 10 divisions, with 8 of them unfit for combat.

9. The US Air Force is facing pilot shortages, and many aircraft remain grounded for lack of spare parts.

10. Only 18 ballistic missile submarines remain in the U.S. Navy, with only 9 at sea on any given day.

11. America's ballistic missile submarine commanders no longer have the launch codes to fire their nuclear weapons, but must rely on the president to send them the launch codes in the event of a war emergency.

12. Shop until you drop.

13. Wave good-bye to your country.

14. Say hello to your new landlord, Mr. Wang.
I didn't read all of this, but according to what I have heard, is that Putin is a former KGB operative.

____________________________________________________


Comrade Sweeper,

I didn't read all of this, but according to what I have heard, is that Putin is a former KGB operative.
Yes, it was commented loud and openly before Christmas on TV.
They even got a comment from his former superior officer.
So what am I suggesting with this?
Well I guess that you see the link already, I am just drawing a line here between Putin and Vassili Zaitsev's "Communist in disguise" post, nothing else.

Yep - that's what I think is happening, and the reason why, nine years after the official "fall" of Communism, a former KGB careerist has come to power in Russia. Putin is a communist. A veteran of the sword and the shield.

_________________

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Putinist...you sound like one of those retarded Christian fundamentalist right-wingers who say the Russians are going to invade America from Mexico!!

1. Moscow has outfitted hundreds of fighter-bombers with additional fuel tanks and in-flight refuelling capability, augmenting Russia's intercontinental strike capability.

Ehh...yes...since the 1970s...whats your point?? How many new aircraft have eneterd Russian service in the past 10 years?? Here is a hint...you can count them with your shoes on.

2. Russia has been constructing large numbers of military transport aircraft for foreign customers who do not exist.

Foreing customers such as Bangaldesh, India and the Congo. Suerly...they do not exist...

3. Russia has been building and accumulating dry docks even though, at the moment, no foreign customers for them exist.

Any proof of this??? And last I chacked...Russia has been selling more warships around the world than any other country...

4. Russia has recently fielded a new battle tank; a new state-of-the-art fighter; super-quiet submarines which can engage sea, land and air targets simultaneously; a new attack helicopter and sniper rifle.

Oh no!!...a new sniper rifle. Now we are screwed!!

What new battle tank?? T-90 you mean?? Of...they produced a good 150 of those...enough to equip to battallions worth.

New state-of-the-art fighter?? Oh yes...they have made plenty of prototype fighters in these past decade...not one has been produced in more than 1-2 prototypes.

Super-quiet submarine??? Would you care to NAME this submarine?? Latest sub that entered russian service was a new Akula-II sub...which had been building for about 10 years...

New attack helicopter??? Oh...you mean Ka-50. Oh yes...Russian army has a good 12 of those helicopters now...

150 tanks...12 helicopters...1 new sub...and a new sniper rifle...aren't very impressive achievements for 12 years of stagnation!!!

5. Russia has developed a revolutionary new rifle-fired infantry weapon, the so-called vacuum grenade, which can give a single Russian soldier the firepower of a 155mm howitzer. Russia has begun joint production of this weapon with the Chinese.

Ehh...did you get that off the Red Alert player's manual?? Care to NAME this weapon...and some photos if you don't mind

6. Russia now emphasizes the production of mobile ICBMs like the Topol-M, which are designed to evade satellite detection, permitting the Russians to cheat on arms control agreements.

Ehh...wrong!! Mobile ICBMs have been in development since the 70s...and Russia has relied on mobile ICBMs since the 80s. Topol-M is not something new the Russians are doing...its just continuing on the trend of the 1970s-80s. And no...they do NOT evade satellites...becsue these things are stationed at bases. They are harder to destroy...becasue they are mobile...but they have permanent bases and facilities...

7. Russia continues to develop biological and chemical weapons, sometimes with the use of US funds. According to recent defectors, Russia is now working on a super-plague weapon.

Would you care to NAME one of these recent defectors??

8. Russian diplomacy is clearly attempting to build an anti-American alliance which includes countries like China, North Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iran, and India.

I thought they were already anti-American...

10. Russia is hoarding strategic metals which are vital for keeping up war production through the first months of a nuclear world war.

LOL...harboring them whee??? In Putin's ass?? First MONTHS of a nuclear war??? There aer no months in a nuclear war...its a 30 minute war!!!

11. Russia is importing more food than needed for domestic consumption. At the same time, Russia has constructed huge underground nuclear-proof food storage facilities.

Huh??? Ohh....you know I'm going to ask you for PROOF of that now!!

12. Russia has developed an impressive engineering rescue capability, organized into special military formations positioned outside large cities, for rescuing citizens trapped beneath rubble in the event of a nuclear attack.

Ehh....yes...they are called fire-fighters...Coast Guard...and such. Oh yes...that is some proof!!

13. Recent Russian movies and pop songs depict Americans as stupid animals who deserve to die. In keeping with this theme, NATO is depicted as an aggressive alliance, sometimes likened to Hitler's Third Reich.

Well...they are just showing the obvious!!...but I don't think Putin making 13. Russia is building huge underground cities, like the one at Yamantau Mountain in the Urals. These cities are built more than a thousand feet into the earth and are able to withstand direct nuclear attack. Russia NATO's junior-partner is keeping with that theme...

13. Russia is building huge underground cities, like the one at Yamantau Mountain in the Urals. These cities are built more than a thousand feet into the earth and are able to withstand direct nuclear attack.

....proof my dear boy!!

14. Russia has been modernizing nuclear bunkers located beneath Moscow.

I thought they were flooded by now...

15. Russia has erected a system of national missile defence far beyond that allowed by the 1972 ABM Treaty. Deploying approximately 10,000 dual-purpose mobile SAM/ABMs, Russia has used a loophole in the treaty to provide a powerful missile shield. Using a common-sense approach to ABM defence, Russia's interceptor missiles employ special nuclear warheads that can destroy incoming warheads without having to score a direct head-on hit.

Ehh.....let me expalin something to you. Russia has 100 ABM missile launchers...mostly around Moscow. Yes these DID have nuclear warheads...but the nuclear warheads have been removed. 10.000 dual-purpose SAMs??? Ehh....NO. You are confusing what they are. They are SAMs...which can engage TACTICAL balistic missiles...like the SCUD for example. They are no different from the Patriot missile...but it would hardly qualify as ABM...it could NEVER engage ICBM warheads.

And the US knows very well they can engage SCUD type targets....

17. Many of Russia's mafia organizations operate in collaboration with, or under the supervision of, military intelligence and the state security services.

that much is very true....unfortunately...

3. China has been developing and deploying new road-mobile long range missiles like the DF-31 and DF-41.

DF-41 doesn't EXIST yet....and DF-31 can only reach Alaska and Washington State...besides...China needs a new ICBM...it only has 20 of them build in the 80s...

4. China is modernizing its navy, purchasing advanced Russian warships and missiles capable of sinking U.S. carriers.

Chinese Navy is probably the crapiest in the world. It ha bought two Russian destroyers. 2 destroyers could never take on a USN task force...They are there to intimidate Taiwan...

6. China has positioned bases to block the main western entry point into the Pacific, and has acquired indirect control of the Panama Canal through front companies.

.... ...

7. China has formed military ties with Cuba and Venezuela.

Ehh...would you care to name the nature of these military ties??

8. China has also penetrated Sudan, and is spreading missile and nuclear technology to rogue states in Africa and the Middle East.

I don't think its hard to "penetrate" Sudan...and please describe the nature of this missile and nuclear technology being spread around....

9. China has massed troops, aircraft, ships and missiles opposite Taiwan.

NO shit!!...sine 1949!!

10. China has engaged in war exercises during which U.S. forces in the Pacific were targeted by Chinese forces.

It was the other way around...US ships came to see Chinese training excercises....

6. The US pays Russia billions of dollars to encourage disarmament measures, but these billions are diverted to Russian war preparations.

Such as the SCRAPING of one of the Typhoon SSBMs by American technicians...

6. The US pays Russia billions of dollars to encourage disarmament measures, but these billions are diverted to Russian war preparations.

Not anymore..

8. The US Army is short of recruits and officers, and has only 10 divisions, with 8 of them unfit for combat.

Uhh....I would love to hear the US Army OrBat from you!!

9. The US Air Force is facing pilot shortages, and many aircraft remain grounded for lack of spare parts.

Huh??? Says who???

10. Only 18 ballistic missile submarines remain in the U.S. Navy, with only 9 at sea on any given day.

Yes...and ZERO Russian SSBMs are at sea any given day.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

China BTW has had the ability to target all of the US since in 1981...with its 20 ICBMs...


Putinist...you take things which happened dacades ago....things which NEVER happened...and things which happened only in prototype form or in tiny umbers...and turn them upside down.

None of it makes sense...it sounds like something I would read from the Christian Science Monitor....or the Iowa Militia...

[Putinist]

Tovarish,

Well researched! I'm no real expert in all this on par with people like Skousen, but I shall try and answer some of your points.

Putinist...you sound like one of those retarded Christian fundamentalist right-wingers who say the Russians are going to invade America from Mexico!!

I took that comment with some offence. If you read my comments at the very beginning of this colossal thread, and indeed other similar ones throughout this thread, you will know that I am exposing this not to say that "evil Russia has deceived us, oh we didn't realise", but to spread what I see as good news to people who share my political and ideological beliefs. Look at how that I have greatly brightened up Vassili's life with this thread - that was what I originally set out to do!

Yes, I know that at times in my exposition of all this I will sound and might come across as an odious right-winger or a member of the New Christian Right (*cringe*), but my intentions are benevolent to the Revolution - to enlighten you all to what our Soviet comrades are secretly up to. Okay?:)

1. Moscow has outfitted hundreds of fighter-bombers with additional fuel tanks and in-flight refuelling capability, augmenting Russia's intercontinental strike capability.

Ehh...yes...since the 1970s...what's your point?? How many new aircraft have entered Russian service in the past 10 years?? Here is a hint...you can count them with your shoes on.

Even the hundreds that "don't exist" under the Urals?

2. Russia has been constructing large numbers of military transport aircraft for foreign customers who do not exist.

Foreign customers such as Bangadesh, India and the Congo. Surely...they do not exist...

No, they do exist. But those contracts were like from the Soviet-era, not now! Nowadays they do similar things but the deals are illegitimate and nothing ever gets through. Usually they just do an Idi Amin or a Khmer Rouge, and keep the foreign aid for themselves to strengthen an already mighty military arsenal.

3. Russia has been building and accumulating dry docks even though, at the moment, no foreign customers for them exist.

Any proof of this??? And last I checked...Russia has been selling more warships around the world than any other country...

If those figures were from a Russian or a blindsided American, British, or other European source, then they were drastically wrong. Yes, deals do go through, such as the one I mentioned that was agreed last month with Indonesia in Moscow. But only because they can afford it. If they can afford such weapons and military vehicle sales considering the performance of their army, then it is surely obvious from the outside that something is wrong, that somebody is telling "porkies" and that Russia is staging a monumental deception along the lines of the one which Golitsyn spoke of. Besides, I think that at the end of the day, Indonesia have to emerge as an ally of the US against Russia/the USSR II, because Russia have allies in South-East Asia which take the form of a Chinese dragon and an ever-persistently communist Vietnam.

4. Russia has recently fielded a new battle tank; a new state-of-the-art fighter; super-quiet submarines which can engage sea, land and air targets simultaneously; a new attack helicopter and sniper rifle.

Oh no!!...a new sniper rifle. Now we are screwed!!

What new battle tank?? T-90 you mean?? Of...they produced a good 150 of those...enough to equip to battalions worth.

New state-of-the-art fighter?? Oh yes...they have made plenty of prototype fighters in these past decade...not one has been produced in more than 1-2 prototypes.

Except for the ones that you don't know about which are most likely hidden either in the Urals, the new Kazakhstan nuclear installations that also "don't exist", or somewhere else. Maybe even with the mass nuclear weapon "storage facility" in the province of Kaliningrad, which the West know about, by the way.

Super-quiet submarine??? Would you care to NAME this submarine?? Latest sub that entered Russian service was a new Akula-II sub...which had been building for about 10 years...

And will continue to build, only covertly and with big improvements to make them practically undetectable, for the coming final world war with the West.

The new, super-quiet submarine is called the "Gepard" (Russian for "cheetah") and it went into production in 2001. It is basically a modified Akula II-class submarine, as I correctly said.

New attack helicopter??? Oh...you mean Ka-50. Oh yes...Russian army has a good 12 of those helicopters now...

150 tanks...12 helicopters...1 new sub...and a new sniper rifle...aren't very impressive achievements for 12 years of stagnation[/b]!

If you believe that then may I suggest that you better call the doctor.

5. Russia has developed a revolutionary new rifle-fired infantry weapon, the so-called vacuum grenade, which can give a single Russian soldier the firepower of a 155mm howitzer. Russia has begun joint production of this weapon with the Chinese.

Ehh...did you get that off the Red Alert player's manual?? Care to NAME this weapon...and some photos if you don't mind

Certainly. The "Havoc Mi-28A".

6. Russia now emphasizes the production of mobile ICBMs like the Topol-M, which are designed to evade satellite detection, permitting the Russians to cheat on arms control agreements.

Ehh...wrong!! Mobile ICBMs have been in development since the 70s...and Russia has relied on mobile ICBMs since the 80s. Topol-M is not something new the Russians are doing...its just continuing on the trend of the 1970s-80s. And no...they do NOT evade satellites...because these things are stationed at bases. They are harder to destroy...because they are mobile...but they have permanent bases and facilities...

But they aren't hard to destroy when they are flying through the air as they will soon do at America. That's what it means by "designed to evade satellite detection". And haven't you ever asked yourself, if the Cold War was over, which it is not, why the mass-production of these WMDs is continuing and escalating dramatically?

7. Russia continues to develop biological and chemical weapons, sometimes with the use of US funds. According to recent defectors, Russia is now working on a super-plague weapon.

Would you care to NAME one of these recent defectors??

Russian defectors tend to be private men. But from what I understand one of them refers to himself as "Dr. Alibek", the other simply as "X.".

Alibek claims that there was a recent outbreak of a kind of never-before seen hemorrhagic fever in the Russian town of Oblivskaya, near Rostov. One newspaper in Riga reported on the epidemic, saying that it had infected 136 persons, killed six. Local police officers had supposedly stopped a car that was said to be transporting jars filled with "pesticide". I remember that this was touched on EuroNews a few months ago.

8. Russian diplomacy is clearly attempting to build an anti-American alliance which includes countries like China, North Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iran, and India.

I thought they were already anti-American...

They are, but the emphasis in that paragraph is on the word "alliance".

10. Russia is hoarding strategic metals which are vital for keeping up war production through the first months of a nuclear world war.

LOL...harbouring them where??? In Putin's ass?? First MONTHS of a nuclear war??? There are no months in a nuclear war...its a 30 minute war!!!

They are already being "harboured" in the secret nuclear bunkers under Moscow and the Urals, wherein they make up the protectorate. There are apparently more in the Chamatka peninsula.

If it's any consolation, the British Government have built one too! It is said to go right from the under the Houses of Parliament and across the street nearby! I've been there - I've seen it! They obviously knew that a nuclear world war is coming, either from Russia - in which case Thatcher did listen to Golitsyn after all, or, more likelier, the worry that Muslim terrorists like al-Qaeda could obtain nuclear weapons and use them on the US, Western Europe, and Israel.

The nuclear strike that Joel Skousen, Golitsyn, Nyquist, and people like that are anticipating is said to occur in the middle of the night, sometime in the middle of this decade (PRAVDA themselves astonished us all earlier this year by giving us the date of 2007!). The US will be all but dead militarily unless they start reshaping their military now. And, boo-hoo, they are! Bush has announced huge improvements this year.

By the way, Russian military spending is also up this year... 33%!

13. Recent Russian movies and pop songs depict Americans as stupid animals who deserve to die. In keeping with this theme, NATO is depicted as an aggressive alliance, sometimes likened to Hitler's Third Reich.

Well...they are just showing the obvious!!...but I don't think Putin making 13.

BRAT II (2001) was a very bad movie. It saw the Russian boy travel to Chicago where he just goes around gunning down Yanks. It's a bit like the Communist equivalent of the West's 1984 flick Red Dawn (Patrick Swayze).

14. Russia is building huge underground cities, like the one at Yamantau Mountain in the Urals. These cities are built more than a thousand feet into the earth and are able to withstand direct nuclear attack. Russia NATO's junior-partner is keeping with that theme...

....proof my dear boy!!

15. Russia has been modernizing nuclear bunkers located beneath Moscow.

I thought they were flooded by now...

15. Russia has erected a system of national missile defence far beyond that allowed by the 1972 ABM Treaty. Deploying approximately 10,000 dual-purpose mobile SAM/ABMs, Russia has used a loophole in the treaty to provide a powerful missile shield. Using a common-sense approach to ABM defence, Russia's interceptor missiles employ special nuclear warheads that can destroy incoming warheads without having to score a direct head-on hit.

Ehh.....let me explain something to you. Russia has 100 ABM missile launchers...mostly around Moscow. Yes these DID have nuclear warheads...but the nuclear warheads have been removed. 10.000 dual-purpose SAMs??? Ehh....NO. You are confusing what they are. They are SAMs...which can engage TACTICAL ballistic missiles...like the SCUD for example. They are no different from the Patriot missile...but it would hardly qualify as ABM...it could NEVER engage ICBM warheads.

And the US knows very well they can engage SCUD type targets....

Re. the nuclear warheads being removed, that's just not true. By "removed" I know that you also mean deactivated. Physically, they have been relocated to the Ural Mountain nuclear base where the Yanks won't know about them. Remember that I told you about the American weapons inspectors who were turned away from that entire region of the country in 2001? But haven't been deactivated. They still point at New York and Washington.

As for the scuds, they were never the "big guns" as far as the Russians are concerned with their current arsenal.

3. China has been developing and deploying new road-mobile long range missiles like the DF-31 and DF-41.

DF-41 doesn't EXIST yet....and DF-31 can only reach Alaska and Washington State...besides...China needs a new ICBM...it only has 20 of them build in the 80s...

1. Only??:eek:

2. The three-stage solid-fuel DF-41 is larger than the DF-31 missile, and has a range of up to 12,000 kilometres. While no information has been published concerning the configuration of this missile, the most straightforward path towards its development would be the addition of an enlarged third stage to the DF-31 ICBM. The larger third stage and longer range of the DF-41 is made possible by the fact that, unlike the DF-31, the size of the DF-41 is not constrained by the requirement that it be fitted into a submarine launch tube. The DF-41 strategic weapons system will have a mobile launch capability providing greatly improved survivability compared with previous Chinese intercontinental missiles. It is anticipated that the DF-41 will be delivered to the 2d Artillery around the year 2010.

In the absence of flight testing, the final operational configuration of this solid fuelled missile remains uncertain, particularly with respect to the length of the third stage. However, this derivative of the DF-31 would be unlikely to have a throw weight in excess of 1000 kgs, and most estimates are in the range of 800 kg. Some estimates anticipate that, as with previous Chinese ICBMs, the DF-41 will carry only a single warhead - with a 0.35 - 1.0 MT yield. In any event, depending on the weapon's yield, it seems unlikely that China would be able to mount more than a few lower-yield (50-100 KT?) RVs on this ICBM. The American Minuteman III has 3 RVs and a throw weight of 1100 kgs at 12,900 kms, while the MX Peacekeeper carries 10 RVs and has a throw weight of 3950 kgs at 11,000 kms. Both American missiles carry warheads with yields of a few hundred kilotons.

Origin: FAS - China Nuclear Forces

4. China is modernizing its navy, purchasing advanced Russian warships and missiles capable of sinking US carriers.

Chinese Navy is probably the crapiest in the world. It ha bought two Russian destroyers. 2 destroyers could never take on a USN task force...They are there to intimidate Taiwan...

I have to agree there.

Golitsyn, as you know from my past posts, puts forward a theory of what he terms as the "scissors strategy". Russia knows that China could seriously emerge as a second major world power, which would no doubt threaten their Russian "partners" for world dominance as the sole superpower. For this very reason, the Russians won't let China get as well off as themselves, but will see them have some considerably military might to help them conquer America if the US resistance is stronger than expected - and it could well be. Refer to Joel Skousen's Strategic Threats for more information about the complete Chinese position (again far-fetched as it may be).

6. China has positioned bases to block the main western entry point into the Pacific, and has acquired indirect control of the Panama Canal through front companies.

.... ...

Unfortunately, I'm no expert on what's happening down there, but I've heard rumours. Rumours involve Russians, Chinese, Mexixcans, and North Koreans.

7. China has formed military ties with Cuba and Venezuela.

Ehh...would you care to name the nature of these military ties??

Well they're all communist countries.

8. China has also penetrated Sudan, and is spreading missile and nuclear technology to rogue states in Africa and the Middle East.

I don't think its hard to "penetrate" Sudan...and please describe the nature of this missile and nuclear technology being spread around....

Malevolent.

10. China has engaged in war exercises during which U.S. forces in the Pacific were targeted by Chinese forces.

It was the other way around...US ships came to see Chinese training excercises....

If you like. Relate this to the "Banquo's ghost" concept.

6. The US pays Russia billions of dollars to encourage disarmament measures, but these billions are diverted to Russian war preparations.

Such as the SCRAPING of one of the Typhoon SSBMs by American technicians...

Not anymore..

It's all part of the deception. Look at the ABM treaty - it was designed by Moscow's Leninist strategists to be adopted and executed by the Yanks, disregarded and uncomplied with by the Russians/Soviets. Which means, in English, that they have successfully tricked the West into disarming (yippee!)!

10. Only 18 ballistic missile submarines remain in the U.S. Navy, with only 9 at sea on any given day.

Yes...and ZERO Russian SSBMs are at sea any given day.

In Russia were Pinocchio, how big do you think his nose would be by now?

China BTW has had the ability to target all of the US since in 1981...with its 20 ICBMs...

Then just imagine what great danger the US is in now - bearing in mind the sister threats from the al-Qaeda terrorists of the Middle East, and, ten times more dangerously, the "non-existant" 30,000 missiles that Moscow currently has pointed at the US (and British) mainland from Yamantau and other such locations. The figure by the way comes from Joel Skousen's Strategic Threats so I'm not sure on it's validity but it certainly is possible bearing Golitsyn's testimony in mind.

Putinist...you take things which happened dacades ago....things which NEVER happened...and things which happened only in prototype form or in tiny umbers...and turn them upside down.

So it seems that it's actually you who's that's living in the past, mate. Look at what you embarrassingly put in reply to point two on the Russian War Preparations section!

None of it makes sense...it sounds like something I would read from the Christian Science Monitor....or the Iowa Militia...

True - but I am presenting this as good news not bad news.

_________________

[ahab]

the tanks and aircraft that they are secretly housing there outnumber the US 9 to 1.

• Source? Evidence?
• Do you know how many DECADES it would take to produce 9 times the equipment the US has and how outdated much of it would be? Not to mention hiding all the funding, resources, and factories needed to produce that sort of army, that would be noticed. You can't hide and produce that much equipment.
• What are they going to do with the tanks? I can understand them taking asia and Europe, Africa would be hard for them, but to get to North and South America that would be the largest shipement ever, they'd better have a HUGE fleet of transport ships if they hope to use that. Or maybe they'll cross over the polar icecap. They'd have to modify them for the conditions, and those modifications would reduce their fighting ability, and they would run into the cold war era airbases up there... lots of aircraft, tanks out in open and unable to move.... hrrm... they better have some good AA with them too.

the Iowa Militia...

OMFG I go to school less than 1 hour by car from Cedar Rapids where they are supposedly based and I have NEVER heard of them

I've got a paper to write for now...

[Demosthenes]

There are so many flaws in this argument, it's obvious it comes fromt he mind of an idealistic 19 year old boy. Forget the fact that according to your own reasoning, you'll be dead because England will be dead. Of course I guess you could immigrate by 2007...

Ok here's a fundamental flaw that Ahab and Tovarish touched on. How will Russia deploy conventional forces to passify what's left of America after your Armagedden dreams are realized? You can't hide the surface ships necessary to transport such a large force. Even if you had a transport force large enough, which is such a stretch it's not even funny, how are you going to hide the massive number of surface warships necessary to protect them from the the US's massive Navy as well as Britians?

One other comment- You stated somewhere up there something like "...in case Americas resistance is stronger than expected..." It will be. Trust me. All you know of us is CNN and Hollwood. I'm here to tall ya, that aint America. The only good part od the bombs falling on the US is that the liberals in California & New York (no offense Boony) will no longer be here to adversely affect military policy, thereby leaving the men who know better in hickland to deal with the likes of this silliness. You have no accurate way to guage us.

One other thing, you are a young man, who's read a couple books from a defecter that nobody lends any real support to, except you. For your arguments to be considered anything more than the rantings of the young, you would have had to study this for more than just a few months to be able to positively conclude "its all true".
Something of this magnitude, that is as well hidden as you say would require a high level security clearance and access to all manner of high level government files from all the countries involved to be proven conclusively.
If a young man like yourself could uncover the "secret truth" so easily in such a short time, it stands to reason that these men are not so good after all. And if there not so good after all then your whole argument falls apart. Further many others (I'm not talking about the ones on that website) would also have picked up on this. You don't seem to realize the scope of what you're trying to say. Something this massive cannot be hidden by the 10% of KGB, that are in this "inner circle" without tipping off someone. somewhere that is not involved. Secret duplicity is very difficult to maintain for such a long time, Claiming "they're just that good" is a little lacking.

[Vassili Zaitsev]

Well I think all of us here should keep an open mind about this. You have commend Putinist for being able to keep up in this debate with everyone, especially the king of criticism: Toverish Spetsnaz. And remember, a good person always keeps an open mind about every subject. You sound like scientists who require proof with their own eyes and such. IE: If they can't see it or touch it, then it doesn't exist. Well just because you can't see or touch the proof with your own eyes and hands doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I must ask, if a restored Soviet Union does attack America, what will happen to American Commies like myself? I sure hope I'm not nuked in the process.

[Demosthenes]

Keep an open mind?

IE: If they can't see it or touch it, then it doesn't exist.

You mean like most of the people here do about god and religion? This very same argument has been used about god here many times. Anyway, this isn't about an open mind. It's about realism. Plain and simple. This is not realistic.

[ahab]

What will happen to American Commies like myself? I sure hope I'm not nuked in the process.

"Well boss, with that last bomb we killed 9 cappies and 1 communist. Sounds like a success to me" Nukes won't ask for how you think a nation's economy goes.

If the USSR were to come out of hibernation and nuke the world they're gonna have to live with the aftereffects, so they won't. To attack north america with conventional forces... would be a huge stretch and very close to impossible.

Damnit... this has me thinking of Risk all the more, screw you all, I'm moving to South America!

explain how you think the former soviet state gov'ts work under the hidden soviet hand

[ahab]

I had to edit and put names with the quotes to keep my sanity... anyways...

How many new aircraft have entered Russian service in the past 10 years?? Here is a hint...you can count them with your shoes on.

Even the hundreds that "don't exist" under the Urals?

The same ones that there is no proof of.

4. Russia has recently fielded a new battle tank; a new state-of-the-art fighter; super-quiet submarines which can engage sea, land and air targets simultaneously; a new attack helicopter and sniper rifle.

Oh no!!...a new sniper rifle. Now we are screwed!!

What new battle tank?? T-90 you mean?? Of...they produced a good 150 of those...enough to equip to battalions worth.

New state-of-the-art fighter?? Oh yes...they have made plenty of prototype fighters in these past decade...not one has been produced in more than 1-2 prototypes.

Except for the ones that you don't know about which are most likely hidden either in the Urals, the new Kazakhstan nuclear installations that also "don't exist", or somewhere else. Maybe even with the mass nuclear weapon "storage facility" in the province of Kaliningrad, which the West know about, by the way.

The Urals thing again... you like to fall back on that so much I'd like to have more proof for that. I think there is no unknown military hardware in the Urals. None. Just someone insisting that it exists, with no proof.

5. Russia has developed a revolutionary new rifle-fired infantry weapon, the so-called vacuum grenade, which can give a single Russian soldier the firepower of a 155mm howitzer. Russia has begun joint production of this weapon with the Chinese.

Ehh...did you get that off the Red Alert player's manual?? Care to NAME this weapon...and some photos if you don't mind

Certainly. The "Havoc Mi-28A".

Ya know... the Havoc Mi-28 is a helicopter... not exactly one lone soldier there. Maybe a lone pilot, with several tons of machine. Unless you can mount a helicopter on an infantry squad I don't see it as an infanty weapon either. Oh, you said lone infantry soldier, so no squads carrying it around.

8. Russian diplomacy is clearly attempting to build an anti-American alliance which includes countries like China, North Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Vietnam, Iran, and India.

I thought they were already anti-American...

They are, but the emphasis in that paragraph is on the word "alliance".

Clearly. Yes. Or not... And those are some mighty powerful countries too. *shakes in boots*

10. Russia is hoarding strategic metals which are vital for keeping up war production through the first months of a nuclear world war.

LOL...harbouring them where??? In Putin's ass?? First MONTHS of a nuclear war??? There are no months in a nuclear war...its a 30 minute war!!!

They are already being "harboured" in the secret nuclear bunkers under Moscow and the Urals, wherein they make up the protectorate. There are apparently more in the Chamatka peninsula.

URALS AGAIN?!?! Jeez... don't get me started on speculation on the stuff that is in the Appalacians AND Rockies. Maybe even the Loess hills near Omaha. Dude, the US has two mountain ranges to hide stuff in, if they had stuff hidden in all those mountains they certainly could win this war. The Appalacian mountains are bigger than the Urals, but smaller than the Rockies. If this were a war between stuff hidden in mountains, the US could hide a lot more stuff in mountains. Gimmie some proof that there is something on the order of what you say there is in the Urals, or I'll start telling you of all the stuff that could be in the Rockies.

If it's any consolation, the British Government have built one too! It is said to go right from the under the Houses of Parliament and across the street nearby! I've been there - I've seen it! They obviously knew that a nuclear world war is coming, either from Russia - in which case Thatcher did listen to Golitsyn after all, or, more likelier, the worry that Muslim terrorists like al-Qaeda could obtain nuclear weapons and use them on the US, Western Europe, and Israel.

Small bunker, only meant for the gov't officials... they've been around for a long time... ever hear of the Green Briar? Norad? Camp David? They are american bunkers that have been around for decades.

By the way, Russian military spending is also up this year... 33%!

up 33% from near zero! Definite improvement!

In Russia were Pinocchio, how big do you think his nose would be by now?

I don't think it would be very big as I see no proof for much of this.

If you believe that then may I suggest that you better call the doctor.

Beleive wha? Something without proof? By the way... Have you seen your doctor lately? I saw mine last week.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Even the hundreds that "don't exist" under the Urals?

Well Ahab did a good job replying to you...Do you have any PROOF of these???

If they can afford such weapons and military vehicle sales considering the performance of their army,

Ehh..no. Actually Russia can produce these weapons ONLY becasue of foreing sales...and ONLY FOR foreing sales. Russia is selling plenty of Su-30MKI fighters to India...but itself does not have a SINLGE Su-30M in its onw inventory...becasue it can't afford it.
See...weapons are produced by private companies...and the Russian military has to pay money to Sukhoi for example to get new planes. Russia doesn't have that kind of money...but Indonesia does.

Except for the ones that you don't know about

... ...Come on now Putinist...don't be silly.

The new, super-quiet submarine is called the "Gepard" (Russian for "cheetah") and it went into production in 2001

It didn't go into production in 2001...it came into service in 2001...after building for nearly a decade!! And no other Akula submarines are being build or will be build.

Building a submarine is NOT something that can be hidden!!!

And how does a new submarine exactly mean a secret Soviet plan fro taking over the world?? Its just one sub for god's sake!!

If you believe that then may I suggest that you better call the doctor.

Ehh....Haha...no comment...

Certainly. The "Havoc Mi-28A".

I don't see the point of it?? Mi-28 was first build in the early-80s...and since then in fact has NOT entered service with the Soviet or the Russian Army. In total some 6 prototypes were build...and the project is still at 6 prototypes. It is equivalent to the US Apache...so how exactly is it part of a "take over the world conspirancy"?

But they aren't hard to destroy when they are flying through the air as they will soon do at America. That's what it means by "designed to evade satellite detection". And haven't you ever asked yourself, if the Cold War was over, which it is not, why the mass-production of these WMDs is continuing and escalating dramatically?

Huh??? Escalating dramatically?? In the past decade...Russia has build about 25 Topol-M ICBMs...and at the same time has scrapped about 500 ICBMs of other types!! 25 build in 10 years...500 destroyed in 10 years. I don't this qualifies as escalation!!

Russian defectors tend to be private men. But from what I understand one of them refers to himself as "Dr. Alibek", the other simply as "X.".

LOL...ehhh...watched Superman cartoons a bit too much I see...

Dr.Alibek...BTW....defected before USSR collapsed...and doctor Alibek is a HUGE lier!! And he says nothing of Russia TODAY...he speaks of USSR back than. He speaks of massive biological and chemical weapons progrmas...which have all turned out to be just a bunch of BS propaganda...CIA payed him a lot of money apparently...

Alibek claims that there was a recent outbreak of a kind of never-before seen hemorrhagic fever in the Russian town of Oblivskaya, near Rostov. One newspaper in Riga reported on the epidemic, saying that it had infected 136 persons, killed six. Local police officers had supposedly stopped a car that was said to be transporting jars filled with "pesticide". I remember that this was touched on EuroNews a few months ago.

Uhhh...SARS??...LOL....

Image

Uhh...HOW does a picture of a mountain PROVE there is a military base under it??? LOL...

As for the scuds, they were never the "big guns" as far as the Russians are concerned with their current arsenal.

I know that...but the SAMs can only engage TACTICAL ballistic missiles...such as the SCUD or the US Pershing and such missiles. They cannot engage ICBMs or thier reentery vehicles. They have similar capabilities as the US Patriot missiles...

1. Only??eek.gif

2. The three-stage solid-fuel DF-41 is larger than the DF-31 missile, and has a range of up to 12,000 kilometres. While no information has been published concerning the configuration of this missile, the most straightforward path towards its development would be the addition of an enlarged third stage to the DF-31 ICBM. The larger third stage and longer range of the DF-41 is made possible by the fact that, unlike the DF-31, the size of the DF-41 is not constrained by the requirement that it be fitted into a submarine launch tube. The DF-41 strategic weapons system will have a mobile launch capability providing greatly improved survivability compared with previous Chinese intercontinental missiles. It is anticipated that the DF-41 will be delivered to the 2d Artillery around the year 2010.

In the absence of flight testing, the final operational configuration of this solid fuelled missile remains uncertain, particularly with respect to the length of the third stage. However, this derivative of the DF-31 would be unlikely to have a throw weight in excess of 1000 kgs, and most estimates are in the range of 800 kg. Some estimates anticipate that, as with previous Chinese ICBMs, the DF-41 will carry only a single warhead - with a 0.35 - 1.0 MT yield. In any event, depending on the weapon's yield, it seems unlikely that China would be able to mount more than a few lower-yield (50-100 KT?) RVs on this ICBM. The American Minuteman III has 3 RVs and a throw weight of 1100 kgs at 12,900 kms, while the MX Peacekeeper carries 10 RVs and has a throw weight of 3950 kgs at 11,000 kms. Both American missiles carry warheads with yields of a few hundred kilotons.

Origin: FAS - China Nuclear Forces

Image

OK...that says DF-41 DOES NOT EXIST YET...since it will be delivered in 2010 the earliest....And that picture BTW is NOT DF-41...it is DF-31!!

Well they're all communist countries.

the "non-existant" 30,000 missiles that Moscow currently has pointed at the US (and British) mainland from Yamantau and other such locations. The figure by the way comes from Joel Skousen's Strategic Threats so I'm not sure on it's validity but it certainly is possible bearing Golitsyn's testimony in mind.

Huh??? 30.000 missiles???

OMFG I go to school less than 1 hour by car from Cedar Rapids where they are supposedly based and I have NEVER heard of them

I don't know...it was a joke ahab...

[Putinist]

Well, once again Well, once again many replies. This is going to take me some considerable time to work through them all, so I will do as much as I can (just lucky that I have got all of Saturday afternoon to do it!).

Tovarish's argument is still by far the strongest, more so now that he and ahab have ganged up on me. However, I have gained another "ally" (I know I shouldn't use that word as a comrade, but is sounds pretty appropriate for the occasion), in the form of Comrade Zaltsev. And Demosthenes, who has yet to seriously issue me with a good challenging argument, has turned to childish insults to get across his/her attempt at discrediting me and Golitsyn.

Still no refutes for my claims about the staged August coup of 1991, by the way.

____________________________________________________


Reply to ahab I,

Putinist wrote:

the tanks and aircraft that they are secretly housing there outnumber the US 9 to 1.

* Source? Evidence?

Defector testimony, Russian official figures (they use the cover of "civil defence" - which is believed now that they and the West are "friends"), internal Russian leaks, accidental boasts from Russian media outlets (PRAVDA.Ru and Russian Aviation News are the main culprits, Joel Skousen's Analysis of Strategic Threats. Those figures I must confess are estimates, but the real figure is sure to be pretty close to that.

* Do you know how many DECADES it would take to produce 9 times the equipment the US has and how outdated much of it would be?

That is indeed correct. It would take at least five decades, and if we assume that the military preparations started at the end of the Second World War...

Not to mention hiding all the funding, resources, and factories needed to produce that sort of army, that would be noticed. You can't hide and produce that much equipment.

Not unless it's underground or operating under a benevolent, pro-Western view of "the Cold War is over... let's be friends". Re-read my quotes from The Perestroika Deception; fatal fallacies five and six (they should be on page 2 of this thread).

What are they going to do with the tanks? I can understand them taking Asia and Europe, Africa would be hard for them, but to get to North and South America that would be the largest shipment ever, they'd better have a HUGE fleet of transport ships if they hope to use that.

Golitsyn, as you will most likely know, talks about what is called the "scissors strategy". As you will know from reading my earlier posts, this is Russia as one arm to the scissors, China as the other, and the United States "comfortably" in the middle. There is also another aspect to this strategy - a division of communist conquest (that by the way is my term - not Golitsyn's). China have the slightly more easier job of taking out Asia, Australia, the Middle East, and (perhaps) Africa - although Africa should be really no problem as it would be little different under Leninist communism than it is Western capitalism. Russia will get Europe and North America. South America, like Africa, will keel over easily as it's already fairly Red already I.e.; Chavez, Lula da Silva, Castro, etc.. Russia, in launching a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the US, destroying it in two days (this is again Skousenian theory), will install fear into the rest of the world. Europe, most of the leaders being already members of the Socialist International (cast your minds back to Golitsyn's "neutral, socialist Europe"), will not want to meet a similar fate, will be forced to accept Russia, or face having their countries overrun by communist Russian and Slavic troops. This will create a new world superpower - "Europe from Atlantic to the Urals" - Russia merged with Europe. "Eurussia". A completely communist state. Britain have the option aswell of following Russia, which will guarantee their survival. Following the US, as they are now doing, could well result in Britain too being strategically attacked by the Russians. Blair is really unusual. He is originally from the Far Left of the political spectrum, Marxist factions, yet he is following the US with full heart. So I would unfortunately, as Demosthenes rightly points out, could be in the firing line if Blair goes with America again.

Other strategic threats, other nuclear powers, such as India and Pakistan, will be drawn into a nuclear war with each other over Kashmir (note: this is happening today), hence annihilating each other and resulting in millions of deaths. Israel will be overwhelmed by the Arab world. But I personally think that Israel could play a considerably bigger role here, as it also has nuclear weapons. As I rightly said earlier, during the Cold War, Nixon ordered that Israel put their nuclear weapons on standby as the Cold War entered one of its more "nail-biting" phases. If Israel see the US gone, they will be defenceless. If they suspect that Russia are, as they did during the Cold war and I believe will again, supporting the Arabs against Israel (in response to a traditional America support of Israel), and Israel know this, then Israel will launch nuclear weapons against Russia, as well as the Arab and Muslim world. Bible believers will point out that this is the point when "Christ will return". Those, like me, who are secular will just expect to see nothing happen, Israel wiped off the map, America wiped off the map, countries like Armenia and Georgia wiped off the map (in an Israeli nuclear response against Russia - Armenia is, after all, "Putin's gateway to the Middle East"), India and Pakistan wiped off the map, Britain possibly wiped off the map (gulp!!), and Russia entering into piece agreements with any remaining nations and, to quote Mr. Skousen (sarcastically); "We'll all have a nice New World Order". To quote Golitsyn, a "New World Social Order" - the "One World Communist Government".

Or maybe they'll cross over the polar icecap.

The plan is to attack from down the Atlantic Ocean with submarines launching nuclear missiles at the mainland, perhaps also from Alaska and Arctic Europe.

____________________________________________________

Response to Demosphenes,

There are so many flaws in this argument,

It would help if you named them and not just made daft statements and innuendos which add little to the debate in hand and only create dissension, confusion, and make you look stupid.

it's obvious it comes from the mind of an idealistic 19 year old boy.

Boy? Adult in Great Britain - and it's not from "my mind". If you had been reading the thread correctly, then you would know that I am optimistically citing the work of a major Russian defector - arguably the most important one ever, not to mention a couple of others, one a very high-ranking KGB man who defected after the phoney "fall" of the Soviet Union to confirm that Russia was still preparing for a major war with the Western world.

Forget the fact that according to your own reasoning, you'll be dead because England will be dead. Of course I guess you could immigrate by 2007...

As you will know from reading my above reply post to ahab, going to European mainland will not really make you that much safer. Where I live it is quite isolated. The major brunt of the attack will be on the US, possibly on London also, but I am far from the capital. Although I am not completely safe, I am better-off than most. Just stay away from any major US or European cities in the summers of 2006 and 2007 (I've just got a strange hunch that the attack will be in one of those summers).

OK here's a fundamental flaw that Ahab and Tovarish touched on. How will Russia deploy conventional forces to pacify what's left of America after your Armageddon dreams are realized? You can't hide the surface ships necessary to transport such a large force. Even if you had a transport force large enough, which is such a stretch it's not even funny, how are you going to hide the massive number of surface warships necessary to protect them from the S's massive Navy as well as Britons?

Do you seriously think that I am implying that the Russians and the Chinese are going to transport over to the US mainland large numbers of tanks and nuclear weapons in large ships, and that the Yanks are going to just "let them in"? I know the Americans are stupid, but not that stupid. Surely not. I don't even recall saying that they would need to deploy tanks and surface ships to the US once it is destroyed. Maybe I am wrong and some will get over - certainly Russian, and possibly also some Chinese, troops will be present on the North American mainland in the aftermath of the great first strike, but don't expect a mass deployment of tanks and whatnot on American soil - certainly not for the major nuclear offensive. As for the Russians being unable to hide the surface ships, you know the score by now - I've already explained it on numerous occasions now. Hell, I didn't even say ships! I said highly-advanced submarines. These will descend on the US from down the Atlantic, not the Pacific as some Cold War films dictated that an attack would take place. I wouldn't rule out a North Pacific offensive on parts of the western US and Canada either.

One other comment- You stated somewhere up there something like "...in case Americas resistance is stronger than expected..." It will be.

Expect a strong American resistance - after the first strike. The US will still have nuclear weapons even after the Russian first strike - and they will use them on the Russians. That's what those large Ural bunkers are for, by the way.

One other thing, you are a young man, who's read a couple books from a defector that nobody lends any real support to, except you.

Let me quote now from The Perestroika Deception once again. Part Two: Communist Grand Strategies and Western Illusions, Chapter 13: The Need for Counteraction by the United States (page 62). Golitsyn wrote this on January 4, 1988;

"To prevent these disastrous consequences, the United States must see through Soviet strategy and disinformation. President Reagan's scheduled visit to Moscow should be cancelled and Soviet plans should be exposed to the American people and their allies as part of an American political counter-strategy. An American President who fails to see through Soviet strategy and who fails to warn the American people of the dangers that it entails will go down in history, not as a great peace-maker, but as a bankrupt politician - an American Kerensky, who was tricked by Communist strategies and unwittingly paved the way for their success. The legacy he should leave to his successors should be one of countering "perestroika", not embracing it. The miscalculations of Kerensky sealed the fate of Russia. The miscalculations of President Roosevelt sealed the fate of China and of Eastern Europe. The present actions of President Reagan will decide the fate of the United States".

Presidents J. F. Kennedy, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush Snr., presidential advisors such as Robert Kennedy and Henry Kissinger, Prime Ministers such as Margaret Thatcher and John Major, and French leaders like de Gaulle and Mitterand all met with Golitsyn. They all ignored him and his advice. Margaret Thatcher only had this to say, in fact, when Golitsyn told her about a possible Soviet long-range strategy; "I hope it's not true". Even other, more recent defectors with similar testimonies were written-off as "nutcases". Bonkers!

Now, Golitsyn has a 94% track record of predictive accuracy attributed to his name. So for your information I am not the only one giving him great credit. Look at Christopher Story and his many followers, all whom will be signed up to his Soviet Analyst magazine. I got a subscription with my copy of The Perestroika Deception from the publishers aswell. So they must all give him credit. So must the latter-day defectors. Then there's all the folks at the Final Phase forum. So you might just want to retract that ridiculous statement of yours.

For your arguments to be considered anything more than the rantings of the young, you would have had to study this for more than just a few months to be able to positively conclude "its all true".

I have indeed been studying it for months in my spare time, checking out the accuracy records of people like Golitsyn for myself, and reading up on the role of Communists in Russia today. My conclusion; it's likely that Golitsyn's final predictions will be fulfilled. And if you've read my previous response to ahab, you'll know what I mean.

If a young man like yourself could uncover the "secret truth" so easily in such a short time, it stands to reason that these men are not so good after all. And if their not so good after all then your whole argument falls apart. Further many others (I'm not talking about the ones on that website) would also have picked up on this. You don't seem to realize the scope of what you're trying to say. Something this massive cannot be hidden by the 10% of KGB, that are in this "inner circle" without tipping off someone. somewhere that is not involved. Secret duplicity is very difficult to maintain for such a long time, Claiming "they're just that good" is a little lacking.

To predict the "fall" of communism, the demolishing of the Berlin Wall, and the rise to power of three Russian presidents almost exactly years before they actual happened, when presidential advisors of the time were telling US and other world leaders that the Soviet Union was "going nowhere", and to them be awarded with a 94% percent accuracy rating for being "not so good after all", it proves that you are crazily misinformed and that you go away and read his book(s), and other books on the subject too. The same goes for people like Tovarish Spetsnaz and Kolzene too - but at least they are putting up something resembling a good argument! May I recommend, apart from:



and



these:







and one other, We Will Bury You - Jan Sejna's 1984 book, which confirms that, by the mid-1980s, an unexpected Soviet long-range strategy was to be launched and executed.

Lastly, your later comment;

Keep an open mind?

IE: If they can't see it or touch it, then it doesn't exist.

You mean like most of the people here do about god and religion? This very same argument has been used about god here many times. Anyway, this isn't about an open mind. It's about realism. Plain and simple. This is not realistic.

Is it really that hard to believe? If you had read Golitsyn's book New Lies For Old in the early 1980s, and had then witness events happen almost exactly as predicted, would you be so quick to rubbish it then? My initial reaction when I first stumbled across the Final Phase (I was searching at the time for on information of Vladimir Putin on Yahoo!, coincidentally already intrigued and interested in him bearing in mind his credentials as a former KGB careerist, and all this stuff about Golitsyn came up - instantly wowing me!) was, like your own, "yeah, right!". But then I read on... and on... and on... and now I find myself here, today! I witnessed the restoration of the Soviet-era Stalinist national anthem (so what if it has new lyrics that mention the word "God" - only one set of lyrics come up when that tune is heard!), the restoration of the KGB statue in red Square, the oddness of the Kursk disaster, the Soviet Red Star being reinstalled as the country's military symbol, and more since! Golitsyn was literally coming true before my very eyes!

To prove my point again, and this is good going back to my earlier comments on Gorbachev and Yeltsin, let me now quote you from The Perestroika Deception, Part One: The Perestroika Deception (The World Slide Towards the "Second October Revolution" - "Weltoktober"), Chapter 40: The Possible Replacement of Gorbachev (page 40). I think that this is actually a reproduced quote from his earlier book New Lies For Old that's probably been reproduced for The Perestroika Deception.

"The Soviet strategy of "restructuring" the world is not reversible but Gorbachev is replaceable. Because Gorbachev was chosen for the execution of the final phase of the strategy, one should not exclude the possibility of his being replaced by another leader. His replacement might take place if the requirements of the strategy were to demand a shift towards a "harder line" or confrontation with the United States, or if he were to fail in his job. He might be replaced by a "conservative" of Ligachev's type or by a "liberal" of Yeltsin's type. Another purpose of the display of alleged difference between Gorbachev and the "conservative" Ligachev on the one hand and the "liberal" Yeltsin on the other hand is to prepare the world public for such a change if it should come about. Gorbachev's replacement or "fall" could well be a calculated move. If circumstances changed, he might be returned to power again".

Does that 1984 "bloc" of text sound familiar? Gorbachev was returned to power in 2001 by the way - as an advisor to Putin! "Oh, don't worry - a man who helped to lead the Soviet Union during the late Cold War-era advising a "former" KGB agent in the new, reformed, capitalist Russia, is fine - because he helped to "bring it down", the West think. You see now how it's all cleverly covered-up and made to seem "healthy" and "capitalist" to the West? Remember "Gorby's" February 2003 speech, in which he stated that the US "needs perestroika"?

Mikhail Gorbachev is a genius.

____________________________________________________


Feedback to ahab,

Note: I'm taking out the mass quotation boxes for this as it just gets us nowhere, wastes time, and creates confusion. You'll know which post I'm referring to - hopefully, if you scroll up and check.

The same ones that there is no proof of.

The Urals thing again... you like to fall back on that so much I'd like to have more proof for that. I think there is no unknown military hardware in the Urals. None. Just someone insisting that it exists, with no proof.

A bit like Area 51, eh? The difference is that the US Government are now open about it and other similar installations situated in the cast desserts of Nevada and other such places. The Russian Government aren't open about the continuing nuclear development deep beneath the Ural Mountain range because, if they were, the US would immediately demand an official explanation (perhaps even from Putin himself - for example, when the coalition forces found that the Russians had been secretly arming the Iraqis (in revenge for Afghanistan - it was an old grudge)), and the UN would want to send Hans Blix in as soon as possible. Do you remember that convoy of US/Western military attaché who were coerced into turning back by the Russians when they tried to get close of the Urals? I wonder why that was. Don't you?

Clearly. Yes. Or not... And those are some mighty powerful countries too. *shakes in boots*

Any political, military, or economic alliance is strong. Unless it's maybe a few small countries that nobody has heard of in deepest, darkest Africa, or some small islands out in the Pacific like the Federated States of Micronesia, an alliance should be watched. The fact that this particular alliance consists of China (nuclear weapons) and Iran (developing nuclear weapons - with Russian help!), just goes to show that you should think twice before making such silly statements.

URALS AGAIN?!?! Jeez... don't get me started on speculation on the stuff that is in the Appalachians AND Rockies. Maybe even the Loess hills near Omaha. Dude, the US has two mountain ranges to hide stuff in, if they had stuff hidden in all those mountains they certainly could win this war. The Appalachian mountains are bigger than the Urals, but smaller than the Rockies. If this were a war between stuff hidden in mountains, the US could hide a lot more stuff in mountains.

True - the US also has such things, except that the Russians know where the US's are and the US don't know where Russia's are. Partly because they "don't exist". Expect the Russians to attack those places in their first strike, severely crippling the military might of their arch enemy.

Small bunker, only meant for the Govt officials... they've been around for a long time... ever hear of the Green Briar? Norad? Camp David? They are American bunkers that have been around for decades.

Correct. In fact, it's been there since the Second World War. But what you don't and won't know is that, in the seven years beginning in the year 1994, the British Government have been modernizing it. I wonder why? (Golitsyn - *hint*, *hint*). You might just know if you listen to the James Whale Show though - he's seen the plans are has been exposing it since 2001.

____________________________________________________


Last but not least, "the King of Criticism"; Tovarish Spetsnaz,

Ehh..no. Actually Russia can produce these weapons ONLY because of foreign sales...and ONLY FOR foreign sales. Russia is selling plenty of Su-30MKI fighters to India...but itself does not have a SINLGE Su-30M in its own inventory...because it can't afford it.

And you believe that? DOCTOR!!!

See...weapons are produced by private companies...and the Russian military has to pay money to Sukhoi for example to get new planes. Russia doesn't have that kind of money...but Indonesia does.

The billions of Western aid that are flowing into Russia and Ukraine are going into unseen military preparations, not anything else. I've been through this already! Question (this is directed at Tovarish): if the FOREIGN (that's how you spell "foreign" by the way - not "foreing"!) aid that flowed into Russia from the early-mid-1990s, and has in fact continued to do so up to the present date, is being used correctly to improve hospitals, school buildings, health care, etc. etc., just as the West think, then why are the Russian medical, health, education, industrial, etc., services in the state they are in today?

I can't believe that you seriously think that Indonesia is wealthier than Russia and yet expect to triumph in this debate. Looking back since this thread was born exactly last Saturday, I have successfully discredited almost everything you've said! You even know that it's going strongly in my favour - that's why you've got ahab and Demosthenes to do your "dirty work" for you. *Rant over*.

It didn't go into production in 2001...it came into service in 2001...after building for nearly a decade!! And no other Akula submarines are being build or will be build.

Well that's what they tell you...

Building a submarine is NOT something that can be hidden!!!

It's done under a benevolent cover. Either that or they just don't tell any people about it. Remember that Russia, which is now a friend of the West, covers 1/6 of the surface of the Earth! Hiding them isn't that hard. Trust me, it never has been. I think that they are being built right at the very top - in the Arctic Circle. Certainly recent PRAVDA articles do hint at that rather strongly.

Suppose that the West do know, for a moment. They know about the 30,000 North Koreans currently labouring in the restored Soviet-era gulags in Siberia! (And if that's how they treat their "comrades", then just imagine what they're going to do to the Yanks, the other Asian capitalist countries - i.e.: Japan, the Islamic world, etc.!). Yet nothing is done. They also know about the various Putin Administration restorations - such as the Dzerzhinsky statue and the Soviet-era national anthem. Yet nothing is done. So if they do know about the advanced war military preparations that Russia is currently going through, then why do they do nothing? Simple: they just assume that it's for "helping the West in the War on Terrorism" or for helping the pathetically struggling Russian army in Chechnya, or something so daft that it defies belief!

And how does a new submarine exactly mean a secret Soviet plan for taking over the world?? Its just one sub for God's sake!!

Talk about desperation!

One submarine of many. Put nukes and other nasty things on board, send them all deep into the Atlantic Ocean, have them all simultaneously fire at vulnerable American cities and military bases (and don't start going on about how vulnerable the US are - we saw the 9/11 hijackers do it with knives!), and they bring the world's "last remaining superpower" to its knees. Then it's Patrick Swayze - Red Dawn - time.

So you see how "one new submarine" can help greatly the Soviet plan for "taking over the world". (I like to think of it as "ousting America" or "Lenin's world revolution".).

Ehh...did you get that off the Red Alert player's manual?? Care to NAME this weapon...and some photos if you don't mind

Certainly. The "Havoc Mi-28A".

I don't see the point of it?? Mi-28 was first build in the early-80s...and since then in fact has NOT entered service with the Soviet or the Russian Army. In total some 6 prototypes were build...and the project is still at 6 prototypes. It is equivalent to the US Apache...so how exactly is it part of a "take over the world conspiracy"?

Does anyone else spot a bit of "double standards" going on here?

It might now have yet entered officially - but I would expect it to be in full, working, word use for the Russian attack on America. They might even give the models to the Chinese aswell!

By the way you said that the project was "still at 6 prototypes". Could you please find me a source for that so that I can take a peak at it. Thank you.

Huh??? Escalating dramatically?? In the past decade...Russia has build about 25 Topol-M ICBMs...and at the same time has scrapped about 500 ICBMs of other types!! 25 build in 10 years...500 destroyed in 10 years. I don't think this qualifies as escalation!!

No it qualifies as (necessary) Russian lies to help their Leninist cause which will lead to the end of world capitalism.

Dr.Alibek...BTW....defected before USSR collapsed...and doctor Alibek is a HUGE liar!! And he says nothing of Russia TODAY...he speaks of USSR back then. He speaks of massive biological and chemical weapons programs...which have all turned out to be just a bunch of BS propaganda...CIA paid him a lot of money apparently...

I much confess that I don't know that much about Dr. Ken Alibek, but I am pretty certain that his testimony is recent. Note that the doctor used to work as a chief deputy in Biopreparat, Russia's military biological weapons division. In March 1998, the New York Times carried one of his articles, in which he stated his theory Russia was in fact continuing to develop new biological weapons, from anthrax to various plague strains. Alibek went on to criticize US aid to Russia which does not allow full-scale inspection of the sites where these weapons are being developed. In September of 1998, Alibek's claims were substantiated when the Defence Intelligence Agency reported to Congress that "key components of the former Soviet biological warfare program remain largely intact and may support a possible future mobilization capability for the production of biological agents and delivery systems".

LOL...ehhh...watched Superman cartoons a bit too much I see...

Oh, and I'd like to know where you stand on the above statement.

Huh??? 30.000 missiles???

Don't grill me on this one because I'm kind of hanging out here. That's from Joel Skousen, not me. I have yet to see real proof, although such a figure would not surprise me one bit.

_________________

[Yeddi]

If the amount of nukes that you are suggesting were infact used, i really doubt the Commie Armies would have much to occupy... or very long in which to do it. The word Apocalypse comes to mind.

As for this section, i would just like to point out this:

Quote:
* Do you know how many DECADES it would take to produce 9 times the equipment the US has and how outdated much of it would be?


That is indeed correct. It would take at least five decades, and if we assume that the military preparations started at the end of the Second World War...

Whilst you have answered the question of time, 50 year old equiptment would be no match for modern armies or the modern equiptment the US and other nations have.

And this whole book thing does make me wonder. If the KGB, as you say are in this huge conspiricy, and are controlling many spy agency and whatnot around the world. Why would they allow a book that uncovers their plot to be published? Why would they allow a man with such information to live? If their was such a conspiricy i doubt you would ever have heard of it until it was too late.

[Demosthenes]

[lies]The Soviet Union is not dead! It lives on! Stupid American Pigs will squeal and die! If Golitsyn says it is so...THEN IT IS SO! I need no other proof![/lies]

[Demosthenes]

I'm threw with this, I knew better than to try to reason with such an idealistic and very young man, you're lucky I have thick skin. Good luck to you and this endeaver, I hope it brings you what you want.

[Putinist]

Yeddi,

If the amount of nukes that you are suggesting were in fact used, i really doubt the Commie Armies would have much to occupy... or very long in which to do it. The word Apocalypse comes to mind.

As I told I think it was Demosthenes in my now completed earlier post, they armies of these countries might not necessarily end up occupying the US in the strictest sense of the word. This is because firstly, as you rightly say, there will be little left to occupy, but where there is no destruction I would expect at least some Russian, Chinese, or perhaps even Mexican troops to occupy, to try and halt the US fight back from within. But that would only be if the US was totally annihilated in the truest sense of the word, which I don't think it will be. The Russians and Chinese will be targeting major cities and military installations, not troops. So, it will more be a case of a major missile offensive rather than "Russians knocking at the door". Did you ever see the film When the Wind Blows, starring John Hurt? Very controversial stuff - the BBC over here refused to screen it when it first came out, so they gave it to Channel 4. That was like a British answer to Red Dawn, which dealt with both a looming nuclear strike and "Russians knocking at the door". In spite of its Orwellian anti-communist nature, I would recommend it. Very moving aswell.

Whilst you have answered the question of time, 50 year old equipment would be no match for modern armies or the modern equipment the US and other nations have.

Another good point. But haven't you heard of upgrading? Changing the metals of aeroplanes, or tanks, building up a vast base supply of bombs, etc.. As far as I know, World War III will be fought with the same nuclear bombs that ended the Second World War - the ones we saw dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Einstein; "I don't know what the Third World War will be fought with, but a Fourth World War would be fought with sticks and stones".

And this whole book thing does make me wonder. If the KGB, as you say are in this huge conspiracy, and are controlling many spy agency and whatnot around the world. Why would they allow a book that uncovers their plot to be published?

They wouldn't have done. Golitsyn I think was a genuine defector. However, if he was really a KGB insider, which could still be a possibility - although I personally would very much doubt it, then he would have been chosen because he would have been to the KGB what the Iraqi Information Minister was to the West - a joke. They would have had him make his story sound literally so stupid and unbelievable that no-one in the West would believe him. But he puts forward his case well, hence I don't think that this is true. Ask anybody who has read his books. Read the quotes for yourself. He was a genuine defector.

Why would they allow a man with such information to live? If there was such a conspiracy I doubt you would ever have heard of it until it was too late.

Golitsyn now lives a new life in England, only publishing under his original Russian pen name. The reason for this is because in doing what he did, he would have been long condemned to death by the KGB. As for the deluded question on the genuinity of the whole conspiracy now, Golitsyn was warning world leaders of this, or at least trying to, as early as the 1960s - which is further proof that his case is genuine, considering that the Soviet Union broke up some twenty years later! Even by the time of the late 1980s, months before Romania's KGB-staged "Velvet Revolution", senior US presidential and Western European advisors were still telling their superiors that the USSR was "going nowhere"! So it's not a case of learning of the conspiracy when it was "too early" - but "too late".

____________________________________________________


Demosthenes;



(I'm sorry - I couldn't resist it.)

Good luck to you and this endeavour, I hope it brings you what you want.

I hope it will too.

_________________

[Vassili Zaitsev]

So what are you saying Putinist? That one night, we'll all go to bed, and wake up only to find red banners all over Russia and its "former" republics? And then what?

[Putinist]

So what are you saying Putinist? That one night, we'll all go to bed, and wake up only to find red banners all over Russia and its "former" republics? And then what?

Golitsyn is very specific about this. Certainly in the book I am now reading, The Perestroika Deception, he goes very much along the lines of Jan Kozak in his book ..And Not a Shot is Fired



and advocates that Gorbachev's introduction of perestroika and glasnost were incorporated to eliminate the need for nuclear war and a violent confrontation with the US - certainly what the Cold War seemed for an awful long time to be leading towards, because the risk was always there that the USSR would loose and that Lenin's World Revolution would be a regretful failure. A lot of the early part of his book is heavily situated about Gorbachev's role in all of this. I now know more about him than I ever did! (Gorby - all is forgiven!!:)).

As I have said a couple of times already in this now-monumental thread, they are using the old Sun Tzu doctrine from The Art of War (500 BC);

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him".

The 1931 quote from student Dmitrii Z. Manuilskii which I also posted earlier strongly backs that up. So, although Golitsyn does not completely eliminate the possibility of nuclear war, and in fact warns it still likely, then an ideal Final Phase operation would see moderate, leftist leaders in the West, i.e.: Golitsyn's "neutral, socialist Europe" come to power (note: this has happened - again as predicted), to gradually converge with Russia leading to one socialist state. This will be a major step to Lenin's World Revolution - the establishing of a one, communist superpower. Gradually this new multi-national state with drift ever leftwards into communism and Marxist philosophy, and any conservative or stringently capitalist insurgents will be, quite rightly, crushed. "..And Not a Shot is Fired". As Golitsyn puts it, the aim is "the total obliteration of the political Right". But that's if the plan goes smoothly...

The Russians were therefore counting on slightly left-leaning, less conservative, even more Marxist-lenient leaders (Clinton and Hillary certainly were) to come to power in the US. In 1992, they got Clinton - which was just what they wanted. In 1996, they again got Clinton. Again, this was just what they wanted. In 2000, they wanted Gore... they got George "Dubya" Bush - a Republican by political leaning and therefore generally more of a right-winger. This was a very bad scenario for the Kremlin, and increase the risk of nuclear war in the near future. Britain's leftist Blair having his "head stuck up Bush's arse" has further given a headache to the Kremlin and will have probably put the British Isles in serious danger aswell (gulp!) when the time to attack comes. That's one the reasons why we are now in year twelve of the Final Phase operation.

Bush hates communism. He is like Reagan in that aspects, and, in spite of his stupidity, will seek to contain it. Look at North Korea being named of the "Axis of Evil" (note how this is heavily reminiscent of Reagan's "Evil Empire" speech - which was counteracted by Soviet "perestroika" and Reagan's fortunate embrace of it and Gorbachev). I don't know what Bush would have done without North Korea, for his list would have then been an "Axis of Islam" (which is actually genuinely evil). But then the North Koreans turn around and say; "Look, Mr. Bush - guess who's got nuclear weapons!". And with China (and covertly Russia) smiling behind them, he turns his attention to Syria (which I think is ridiculous as Syria has been quite a friendly, easy-going, more moderate Arab nation. In fact, Saddam Hussein's quasi-socialist Baath Party started out in Syria!) and Lebanon. Oh, dear. Heed this warning; if the North Koreans launch atomic missiles at the US, then you can expect an Afghanistan-style attack on the northern Korean peninsula - regardless of the opinions of the UN, the Europeans, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Japanese. If that does happen, and it occurs in the year 2004 or after, then that could well turn out to be the trigger for the Soviet first strike.

_________________

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Heed this warning; if the North Koreans launch atomic missiles at the US, then you can expect an Afghanistan-style attack on the northern Korean peninsula - regardless of the opinions of the UN, the Europeans, the Russians, the Chinese, and the Japanese.

This is your great prediction??? LOL...what a fortune teller you are...

First of all...if North Koreans launch nuclear missiles...US would retaliate with nuclear missiles of its own...and there wouldn't be a North Korea anymore.

Second...why the hell would North Korea do something so stupid?? Hmmm....logic failing again..eh??

All North Korea wants is a lifting of the sanctions, aid, and allowing it to conduct business with the west without turning out like China.

North Korea does not want war...why do you oversimply everything so much?? Its Evil Korea lunching missiles against the US!! WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT???

The 1931 quote from student Dmitrii Z. Manuilskii which I also posted earlier strongly backs that up.

If Manuilskii was just a student...than why does his quote matter so much??? Just because some nut case in the USSR said something....doesn't mean much!!

Golitsyn's "neutral, socialist Europe" come to power (note: this has happened - again as predicted), to gradually converge with Russia leading to one socialist state.

OMFG!!! Where is this "neutral socialist" Europe you speak off??? If that the same Europe that has send men and planes to bomb Afghanistan back to the 10th century (it was at the 14th)?? Is that the same Europe that bombed Yugoslavia along with the US??? NEUTRAL??

Socialist Europe?? Where exactly is Socialist Europe??? Perhaps that fascist that was elected in Austria?? Or Berlusconi is a socialist now???

Is england a socialist country?? Is france a socialist country?? is Germany a socialist country??? About as much as the US is a socialist country!!!

Clearly you do NOT understand what that term "socialist" means...and what it has to do with Lenin or the Proletariat Revolution. You and Golitsyn are completely ignorant on that...if you think that "Socialist France"...is equivalent to a Proletariat Revolution or Marx's socialism!!

You confuse a country having some social programs...as being a socialist country!! The US and Canada have some social programs....but that does not mak them socialist!!!



Your view of this is that of a 5 year old...And I think you should get offended by me saying that!! You think becasue Putin has brought back the Soviet Anthem and the Red Army flag...that the Soviet Union is back. NO!!! The people want the Soviet Union back...Putin does not...so he allows some aspects of it to come back...the most HARMLESS aspects of it...its music and flag...and fools the people. A 5 year old would get very excited at seeing the Red Army flag once more...but it is meaningless. It doesn't mean shit other than Putin knows very well how to manipulate the people...

You hear the world "left" and "labor" in Europe...and you think...COMMUISM!!!...NO...think again. Thats what someone who doesn't undestand what those terms mean would say. The US is as "socialist" as the European countries are...but I guess that was Lenin's plan al along?? Ehh.... Rubish!!

Being leftist in Europe means being left of Hitler...its the left of the right...it has nothing to do with communism...nor will it ever have anything to do with communism.


So stop this silly argument of yours. You jump up and say England is communist becasue Tony Blair is in the British Labor Party. When did being "labor" qualiy one as being communist???...or even leftist???

Here is another silly statement by you:

even more Marxist-lenient leaders (Clinton and Hillary certainly were)

LOL....WHAT??? Clinton and Hillary were Marxist-Leninists??? That alone...shows how worthy your argument is...

Let alone your crazy "The Russians are building an army with American millions...and hiding it "under the Urals"..."!!

Oh please...they are most likely hiding it in Santa's hideout in the North Pole!!


Enough said...this is a silly conspirancy theory....worthy of the Christian Science Monitor.