[enLight]

I was talking with one of my colleagues and he claimed that the three necessary components to sustain a stable civilization are:

• Belief in God
• A Strong Moral Code
• Protection of the Family

I haven't put much thought into this, and haven't looked into the histories of other civilizations (yet) to see if this is true. I just was wondering if anyone had any input towards this theory.

LowLife

[Boondock Saint]

Yes.

Belief in God
A Strong Moral Code
Protection of the Family

In order.

- No, there is no reason that 'God' proper is needed. I assume you are implying the Judeo/Christian 'God', as you capitilized the word god. This is false, for many reasons.

:'Gods' as in polytheism were the dominant form prior to Christianity. Indeed there are still some regions where polytheism rules, I would actually argue that Christianity is not a monotheistic religion but is actually polytheistic, but that is another discussion. Knowing personally several Chinese people I have been made aware that a large nation and people may flourish with no concept of 'God' or 'gods'. Thus convincing me that no 'god' is needed. It is my belief that 'gods' or 'God' is a tool of the powerful to keep the many in check. It is also a theory of mine that most religions were set up on teh basis of Hammurabis laws. It just so happens that these laws are easier to enforce if an all powerful 'god' has given them to you.

- Yes. A strong moral code is important. I do not believe that mankind is as loyal to his fellows as say ... a noble animal such as the wolf. Therefore a strong moral code in order to ensure a stable society is needed. Furthermore an enforcement policy and agency is also required, otherwise there is no reason to follow the code.

- Protection of Family? This seems a tad vague. What is your definition of family? If you mean your immediate family, or pack, then no. This is not needed for a stable civilization. It is required however for a stable family unit. One must wonder though, what are you protecting your family from? Animals? This is not too difficult once the pack gets large enough, especially when several packs come together and form a clan. Once a city is formed or even a nation state animals pose lilttle threat to man in general, though naturally on an individual basis the wolf is no less dangerous to the human.

Here are what I think are the needed things for a stable civilization ... but wait ... are we speaking of nation states? Cultures? What?

So I will assume nation state.

- Food. Without this there is nothing. One must secure proper food sources to sustain a large population, otherwise man will revert to his nomadic form or perhaps worse ... cannablism.

- Security. I suppose this is somewhat like your protection of the family, but encompasses a much larger scope. This includes not only the policing of your own but the establishment of a warrior caste or military to protect against outsiders who perhaps want what you have.

- Occupation. Just as any military commander will tell you, idol people are dangerous people. Why do you think soldiers dig so much? Why do you think Roman commanders had their men build so many roads and walls? To keep them busy and keep them from sitting around grumbling and complaining. Busy minds do not have time to think and busy hands do not have time to fight, therefore busy people do not have time to revolt.

Without the three above things it is my opinion that a nation or city cannot exist.

[T]

This doesn't address, of course, whether stability is always good. If country stands for ten millenia, but enslaves its population, I'd hardly call that success.[/i]

[Brick]

Interesting ideas Boondock, I like your reasoning.

Busy minds do not have time to think and busy hands do not have time to fight, therefore busy people do not have time to revolt.

Do you mean to say that most (if not all) rebellions and revolutions are caused by the unemployed?

Brick

[enLight]

Well, as I said beofre, it's not my theory, but I'll try to explain what I can.

- No, there is no reason that 'God' proper is needed. I assume you are implying the Judeo/Christian 'God', as you capitilized the word god. This is false, for many reasons.

I disagree. First, I would say that my friend meant belief in some kind of god(s). I would also argue that it is necessary. The reason for god(s) is simply to enforce moral codes. Now maybe you are enlightened enough to keep yourself in line - but to the average person, a greater power is needed to do this. According to your logic, a god is not needed. But then who will enforce the moral code? Who will be that threat? The government? That would have to be the answer. Me...I'd rather have a god.

However, the China example is a good counter argument. I'm going to look into that some more...

- Protection of Family? This seems a tad vague. What is your definition of family?

I believe that he meant keeping a family based on a male adult, female adult and children, for purposes of reproduction and healthy child raising.

Here are what I think are the needed things for a stable civilization ... but wait ... are we speaking of nation states? Cultures? What?

I think he meant culture of a civilization - since obviously, food, security and jobs are necessary for a nation.

LowLife

[Truth-a-naut]

Quote:
Busy minds do not have time to think and busy hands do not have time to fight, therefore busy people do not have time to revolt.


Do you mean to say that most (if not all) rebellions and revolutions are caused by the unemployed?

Have you ever worked on an assembly line?
You don't really have time to reflect as breaks you sit there and relax, and when you get home you just want to sleep or get drunk...
Revolutions are usually instigated by the middle-class.

[bach]

Quote:
Quote:
Busy minds do not have time to think and busy hands do not have time to fight, therefore busy people do not have time to revolt.

Do you mean to say that most (if not all) rebellions and revolutions are caused by the unemployed?

Have you ever worked on an assembly line?
You don't really have time to reflect as breaks you sit there and relax, and when you get home you just want to sleep or get drunk...
Revolutions are usually instigated by the middle-class.

Boondock Saint, busy people dont have time to revolt of course, however thats the least cause, what can they really do if they are not educated.

I mean how could they know they have to revolt ?

Well, they need some kind of knowledge from which they can draw the conclusion that they are being exploited, moreover, they need to, because otherwise they would be slaved again easily. A clear example are american slaves that revolted because they became awared, informed and educated, not because they were given free time to think.

Frederick Douglas
NARRATIVE OF THE LIFE OF FREDERICK DOUGLASS,
AN AMERICAN SLAVE
http://www.toptags.com/aama/books/book10.htm

this is 3rd grade essential reading, and if you still believe in exploiting people, then I would just say.

Hopefully, I'll see all of you burn in hell or earth, it doesnt matter as long as this world gets free of people like you.

[Brick]

Do you mean to say that most (if not all) rebellions and revolutions are caused by the unemployed?

Have you ever worked on an assembly line?
You don't really have time to reflect as breaks you sit there and relax, and when you get home you just want to sleep or get drunk...
Revolutions are usually instigated by the middle-class.

Wait a minute, are you agreeing or disagreeing? (Sorry for my slow wit...)
For the record, the question was asked out of curiosity. I'd need to look into this a bit further to develop an opinion.

Brick