[anasawad]

A quick idea.
If we were to imagen a society where money and private property were not to exist.
Basically there is no property because everything is owned by everyone as one nation. And no money for everyone has full access to all sorts of resources for free since everyone will be in one way or anther taking active role in extraction, manufactoring and production in general.

Now to get to such there are clear points in which needs to exist.
First is to have full sufficiency. That is the given nation produces everything from food to fancy cars and tech and everything generally. That is in order to not need to trade with other nations other than in pure raw resources.

Second is to have a social structure and ranking that is based on productivety and participation.
For example there will be a standard for what the normal person has, from the type of houses (apartments probably), to what type of car he or she is to be provided, and etc.
But if you were lets say an achieving scientist you get more, like better car or more than one car.
Instead of apartment maybe a villa.

Basically a semi class system based on how much you do to benifit the nation and its progress.

Third and most importantly it needs to have a large scientific community and a productive and supported one as the best way to achieve the above, and probably the only way, is through technology.

Fourth is the political system which can only be made a democracy as an absolute rule or a monarchy would be seen as oppressive and would lead inevitably to revolts that would destroy the system internally. (i.e simillar to what happened in the soviet union).

and fifth is the cultural factor which holds key importance as it would require a unified culture and a certain moral standard the makes sure that everyone will unite and want the best for the nation.
So it should be indoctorined in the people since childhood.
In my opinion i think this would be achieved best if presented as some sort of spiritual bond with the divine and the nation being the chosen land of the divine entity. (i.e like a cult )

This would also allow punishment for criminals to be easly accepted as it would come from the established social standards and moral rather than from a given authority.


Now i haven't thought if fully through but what do you think such nation needs to survive and last other than those ? and if there is an opinion on the given points as well ?

And finally what does it take to establish such nation ?

[Syph]

First is to have full sufficiency. That is the given nation produces everything from food to fancy cars and tech and everything generally. That is in order to not need to trade with other nations other than in pure raw resources.

Only two realistic possibilities for this:

• Post-scarcity society based around automation.
• Border-less and nation-less world.

Second is to have a social structure and ranking that is based on productivety and participation.

This is doubtful given the widespread deployment of automation. Human activity would likely be reduced to the arts, scientific research, medicine. How do you independently assign a value to an hour of work for a cancer researcher vs an hour of work for a painter?

It's nearly impossible. The next best thing is a universal income for every living person which can be topped up with non-transferable hourly labour vouchers. These would all have equal value to motivate those with passion for their field rather than materialists.

Fourth is the political system which can only be made a democracy as an absolute rule or a monarchy would be seen as oppressive and would lead inevitably to revolts that would destroy the system internally. (i.e simillar to what happened in the soviet union).

Direct democracy decentralised into urban centres would be ideal. It accounts for regional variation and is responsive to the immediate needs of the people.

and fifth is the cultural factor which holds key importance as it would require a unified culture and a certain moral standard the makes sure that everyone will unite and want the best for the nation.

Totally unnecessary, if people want to maintain certain cultural values than they congregate at cultural centres. As long as liberty and equality are upheld there would be no need to intervene.

So it should be indoctorined in the people since childhood.

I think the opposite, let children control their learning and develop their own opinions. Mere education about equality and liberty should be enough to open children's eyes to the possibilities and let them grow as they desire.

This would also allow punishment for criminals to be easly accepted as it would come from the established social standards and moral rather than from a given authority.

As long as they are convicted by a jury of their peers (unknown to perpetrator or victim) then it would be easy to rehabilitate or imprison criminals.

Now i haven't thought if fully through but what do you think such nation needs to survive and last other than those ? and if there is an opinion on the given points as well ?

It would need some kind of automated militia to enforce the law. There only needs to be one law: all actions that deprive someone of their equality or liberty are illegal.

[anasawad]

@Syph

Only two realistic possibilities for this:
Post-scarcity society based around automation.
Border-less and nation-less world.

Or with the advancement of technology, we can utilize the creation of artificial environments to allow to grow all sorts of agricultural products in any region. And if pushed to a certain level, it could be mass production. You can also instead of having farms just on one level. you can have multiple level farms where all are locked and inside an artificial environment to fit the given product. Which we already can do.
This way you can have multiple large scale farms for all sorts of things simply stacked on top of each other.
It seems far fitched, but we already have the right scientific advancement for it, only funding left.
And a nation with limited lands can theoritically use such idea.
Automation included.

This is doubtful given the widespread deployment of automation. Human activity would likely be reduced to the arts, scientific research, medicine. How do you independently assign a value to an hour of work for a cancer researcher vs an hour of work for a painter?

It's nearly impossible. The next best thing is a universal income for every living person which can be topped up with non-transferable hourly labour vouchers. These would all have equal value to motivate those with passion for their field rather than materialists.

Well, thats the idea, there will be a standard access for everyone regardless of their role. And only increases with the increase of rank and achievements in their domain.
For example, all citizens would have the right to government provided home, transportation, health care and education, etc.

Direct democracy decentralised into urban centres would be ideal. It accounts for regional variation and is responsive to the immediate needs of the people.

True, this allows the nation to coup with any change faster.
However unlike some of the systems currently, the president for example should have longer term position lets say 10-20 years as an excecutive power. While all the authority is really in the hands of the public, given that any action must be first voted by the public then applied by the government.
A voting system simillar to that of social media, except without the interaction really just an online website where all the people are registered and can open it to know about the given options and vote.
This is more direct and faster and more resources efficient.

I would also add that to insure maximum efficiency, candidates for government ranks should not be known to the public only after the election. That is when you're voting, the people will only know the candidate's policies and experties, rather than what ever beliefs, gender, race, etc he or she is.

NOTE: this means that the people must be educated on the system and how it works and also on logical and analytical thinking in order to guarentee that the right decision would be chosen if not in all times atleast in the higher majority of times.

Totally unnecessary, if people want to maintain certain cultural values than they congregate at cultural centres. As long as liberty and equality are upheld there would be no need to intervene.

Sure, those things are subcultures. But when you're talking about money and property for example, those things are ingraved within each cultures and society. Thus a new base culture should emerge where those things simply don't exist.
Thus if one wants to advance hem or her self, they should work to achieve higher ranks, productivity, and accomplishment rather than just accumulate wealth which can be done without really doing much to benifit the nation as whole.

I think the opposite, let children control their learning and develop their own opinions. Mere education about equality and liberty should be enough to open children's eyes to the possibilities and let them grow as they desire.

Well,sure, but the base concepts for the society should be tought from young age.
Like liberties and equality, but also the same as mentioned right above is that success can only be done with achievements and work to benifit and advance the nation.
And one key concept, which is that it is a duty to seek the benifit of the people and the nation in general.
As one side effect of having universal rights such as a home and free access to food and resources can lead to lack of work unless it was dealt with education.

As long as they are convicted by a jury of their peers (unknown to perpetrator or victim) then it would be easy to rehabilitate or imprison criminals.

Agreed.

It would need some kind of automated militia to enforce the law. There only needs to be one law: all actions that deprive someone of their equality or liberty are illegal.

For the base law, this actually came to my mind through it just in different form. Basically you're free to do what ever you want as long as you do not enfringe on others liberties and rights.

For the automated militia, well it depends, it can be done by humans normally just as long as the right people are selected for the job.



Now anther thing that could be needed to be applied is portion system, which is basically for the food and goods consumption. It would need to fit everyone in a way that no one is deprived, but also least possible waste is resulted.
Although this can be handled if mass production was in place.

Now ofcourse there should be an outer space minning program to fuel the system more efficiently, which is feasible in the future, but to insure it can accomplished faster before earth becomes unable to provide sufficient resources, more effort should be placed to establish such program.