What is Populism? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By quetzalcoatl
#14748660
It has become evident that a number of people on this forum have become oddly attached to the word 'populism,' particularly with regard to Trump and his many contradictory statements. it apparently means something to them. Something beyond what most historians and political scientists have observed (exemplars being William Jennings Bryan, Huey Long, or perhaps even Teddy Roosevelt). The New Populists are more accurately what could be described as Humpty-Dumpty Populists.

“When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.”

If we take the word populism at face value, it would seem to indicate a belief in the power of regular people, and in their right to have control over their government rather than a small group of political insiders or a wealthy elite. How one squares that with Trump's recent actions in a mystery I cannot solve. But then I am old school enough to believe words have actual meanings.

At any rate, if populism is to have any meaning whatsoever it will have to address this:

The economic problems we face are great, but the true dangers are not budget deficits or public debt but the risk that these non-problems will be used as a pretext for failing to address the real problems: mass underemployment, extreme inequality and poverty, environmental degradation, the corruption of government and a powerful financial elite and the system itself that produces these outcomes. The fact that austerity measures could even be contemplated at a time of high unemployment and excess capacity indicates the effectiveness of the neoliberal propaganda blitz of the past thirty-five years.


Cheney was a populist in one respect - he recognized that "deficits don't matter." Money is a means to an end, not the end to itself. The true populist takes it one step further. He realizes that money and budgets aren't the limiting factor in political action; the limiting factor is the wealth of a nation and its political will to use it.

For the Humpty-Dumpty Populists none of this matters. Their populist makes some noise about the people, and then appoints CEOs to slash Social Security.
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By XogGyux
#14748663
I think demagogue describes trump better than populism. Yes he is a populist but so was Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and any other major presidential candidate in the past (e.g. Obama).
He is a demagogue. On top of populist (which he also is) I think he clearly has examples of each and everyone of the following points:

- Scapegoating (A LOT!)
- Fearmongering
- Lying (A LOT!)
- Emotional oratory and personal charisma
- Accusing opponents of weakness and disloyalty
- Promising the impossible (A LOT!)
- Violence and physical intimidation
- Personal insults and ridicule (A LOT!)
- Vulgarity and outrageous behavior (A LOT!)
- Folksy posturing
- Gross oversimplification (BIGLY A LOT)
- Attacking the news media (ALSO A LOT)

He also claims to be for the regular people but all evidence points toward the contrary (all his policy-people picks are billionaires and millionaires), conflict of interests, etc.
By foxdemon
#14748671
Demagogue is an apt term for Trump. His follows could be labelled as a mob. They seem inclined to make decisions based on emotion rather than reason. This is nothing new, though. The ancient Hellenes coined the phrase 'demagogue' after all. I'm not sure why we would use the term 'new popularism' to label this movement.

Right wing popularism is another label used to identify this movement. If 'popularism' is not accurate (it is used in the sense of being anti-elite), is 'right wing' also inaccurate? The terms left and right come from the French Revolution. Would these people really be sitting on the right wing of the French revolutionary paraliament? Do they support monarchs, aristocracy and embrace the notion that one ought accept one's estate, one's station in the social hierarchy? I don't think there is much left of true conservatism in the West.

So if they aren't right wing, popularist or new, then how should they be described?

They operate on emotion: angry, fear, hate. They reject reason and favour conspiracy over evidence. They are irrational. Thus their leader is likely to be someone who is willing to manipulate them. They are the angry mob. The thing William Golding described as 'the beast'. In this, it should be known, there is something about these right wing new popularists that is in us all. They are an expression of the human potential we'd rather not identify with. Alas, the beast is in us all.

So, how should we describe them?
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By One Degree
#14748789
Demagogue is an apt term for Trump. His follows could be labelled as a mob. They seem inclined to make decisions based on emotion rather than reason. This is nothing new, though.


Did you plagiarize this from a criticism of Lincoln and the freeing of the slaves. Hypocrisy seems to be only recognized in others, seldom ourselves.
By foxdemon
#14748870
One Degree wrote:Did you plagiarize this from a criticism of Lincoln and the freeing of the slaves. Hypocrisy seems to be only recognized in others, seldom ourselves.


No I didn't plagiarise it from anyway. It is self evidently the case that this new popularism is nothing but the angry mob led by the pide piper. As to the claim of hypocrisy, perhaps you think I am partisan?

Much of what led to the fall of Clinton and the establishment she represents is corruption. Do you really think Trump will bring an end to corruption? I rather suspect he won't and he will respond to the relegation among the mob that he won't by using the power of the state to suppress dissent.

The mob, at least in America, seems to be unable to accept the sort of policies that could potentially address the fundamental problem of economic inequality. Possibly it is that which leads to their irrationalism, the lack of a clear understanding of how they might address their political situation. Instead they turn to anger in their frustration and, by giving in to emotion over reason, they become manipulated by the unscrupulous.
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By One Degree
#14748875
The exact same is true of the Hillary supporters. That is why I call it hypocrisy.
There is no evidence that well educated people make better decisions on governing than the average person.
It is actually well educated, well intentioned people who create the problems. They become obsessed with their correctness and refuse to listen to opposing opinions. They then extend their ideas to absurd levels. This is what caused Hillary's defeat.
Whether it is you blaming the ignorance of republicans or Hillary blaming the ignorance of Trump supporters, there is no excuse for disparaging the voters. Voters do not do right or wrong. They vote and the politicians perform the acts that are right or wrong. Trump has yet to be president, so it is illogical to judge him. He has not actually done anything yet.
By foxdemon
#14748878
One Degree wrote:The exact same is true of the Hillary supporters. That is why I call it hypocrisy.
There is no evidence that well educated people make better decisions on governing than the average person.
It is actually well educated, well intentioned people who create the problems. They become obsessed with their correctness and refuse to listen to opposing opinions. They then extend their ideas to absurd levels. This is what caused Hillary's defeat.
Whether it is you blaming the ignorance of republicans or Hillary blaming the ignorance of Trump supporters, there is no excuse for disparaging the voters. Voters do not do right or wrong. They vote and the politicians perform the acts that are right or wrong. Trump has yet to be president, so it is illogical to judge him. He has not actually done anything yet.


I guess that is the advantage of being part of a mob, no one individual can be blamed.

If it is education and good intentions that cause all the problems, should we then aspire to ignorance and bad intentions?

I think you are basically correct in indentifying why Clinton and her team failed. They represent a class that has become so accustomed to their power and privilege that they were no long able to concieve that they could ever lose that status. Arrogance and hubris. Not unlike the French aristocracy on the eve of the revolution.

Non the less, the problem remains that Trump is going to get involved in plenty of corruption. He will likely use the stat to suppress dissent. This is a reasonable prediction. Let's see how it works out.
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By One Degree
#14748884
I admit I despair at the huge numbers of people who do not seem to comprehend the world they live in, but I cross it off as my personal hubris. That allows me to retain hope. I do have faith in the good intentions of the average person. I just don't like the information sources they are using to make their choices.
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By XogGyux
#14748916
One Degree  wrote:The exact same is true of the Hillary supporters. That is why I call it hypocrisy.

First time you see hypocrisy in politics?
It is true Hillary is a populist (same for all other major political candidates, including obama, bill clinton, all 3 bushes, etc) but Trump is also a demagogue while Clinton is not. Populist on itself is neither bad nor good, it is merely a description. Demagogues in large have been awful (hittler, castro, hugo chavez, among many others).
Trump has yet to be president, so it is illogical to judge him.

No it is not. As you said he is not yet president and he is already making a mess out of things. Exactly because if what he has said/done so far is that we can judge him.
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By One Degree
#14748920
One Degree wrote:
The exact same is true of the Hillary supporters. That is why I call it hypocrisy.

First time you see hypocrisy in politics?
It is true Hillary is a populist (same for all other major political candidates, including obama, bill clinton, all 3 bushes, etc) but Trump is also a demagogue while Clinton is not. Populist on itself is neither bad nor good, it is merely a description. Demagogues in large have been awful (hittler, castro, hugo chavez, among many others).
Trump has yet to be president, so it is illogical to judge him.

No it is not. As you said he is not yet president and he is already making a mess out of things. Exactly because if what he has said/done so far is that we can judge him.


You called him a demagogue and said he has made a mess of things. What specifically has he done that has caused harm to any American?
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By XogGyux
#14748941
You called him a demagogue and said he has made a mess of things.

Look up the word in the dictionary then return to me.
What specifically has he done that has caused harm to any American?

You mean aside of the millions he has stolen from unpaid works or extorted due to law suits/threat of suits?
You mean from the evidence-less rants of accusations against minorities such as Mexicans/blacks and inflammatory comments that empower hateful supremacists?
You mean besides all the women harassment he has done through many years.
You means besides escalating conflict with China over twiter?
The list is pretty long and as you said he has not even taken office so its going to get longer and far worse as he gets more power. The little power he has and he has so far been a negative influence in our society NOT a positive. Imagine after he get substantially more power what will happen.
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By One Degree
#14748943
So, you have nothing specific, just the common generalizations that are no more than a character attack.
He is not president yet. He has done nothing to harm anyone as president.
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By XogGyux
#14748951
So, you have nothing specific, just the common generalizations that are no more than a character attack.

Nope. those are actual, verifiable things that he has done. Its a character "attack" because his character is very poor.
He is not president yet. He has done nothing to harm anyone as president.

You asked for things that he has done and not things that he has done as a president. Things that he has done as a president is an stupid question anyhow because obviously he has done nothing (good or bad) under that tittle because he has not been president of the US yet. But that is just matter of time, less than 2 months until we see all the crap pour out of his mouth as a president the same way we have seen all his crap pour out of his mouth before being president.
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By One Degree
#14748983
You asked for things that he has done and not things that he has done as a president. Things that he has done as a president is an stupid question anyhow because obviously he has done nothing (good or bad) under that tittle because he has not been president of the US yet.


You do understand things said in a campaign have very little to do with what happens after the winner becomes president. The Democrats are acting like this is the first time they have ever seen an election, and I think I know why. Trump represents an end to their ability to shout down any opposition by saying 'racist' and the media and the government fully encouraging them. That has now ended and they are incapable of dealing with issues on a level field with their opponents. Simply put, they refuse to admit their smug attitude of superiority was and is the problem, so they transfer their anger to Trump. Trump must be the problem because they are incapable of being wrong in their assumptions about society.
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By XogGyux
#14748987
One Degree wrote:You do understand things said in a campaign have very little to do with what happens after the winner becomes president. The Democrats are acting like this is the first time they have ever seen an election, and I think I know why. Trump represents an end to their ability to shout down any opposition by saying 'racist' and the media and the government fully encouraging them. That has now ended and they are incapable of dealing with issues on a level field with their opponents. Simply put, they refuse to admit their smug attitude of superiority was and is the problem, so they transfer their anger to Trump. Trump must be the problem because they are incapable of being wrong in their assumptions about society.

To that I would say... just wait a couple of months and you will see. But you guys live in a fact-free bubble. A fact might be in front of you staring you in the face and you would not even see it.
By foxdemon
#14749066
XogGyux wrote:First time you see hypocrisy in politics?
It is true Hillary is a populist (same for all other major political candidates, including obama, bill clinton, all 3 bushes, etc) but Trump is also a demagogue while Clinton is not. Populist on itself is neither bad nor good, it is merely a description. Demagogues in large have been awful (hittler, castro, hugo chavez, among many others).

No it is not. As you said he is not yet president and he is already making a mess out of things. Exactly because if what he has said/done so far is that we can judge him.



We must acknowledge One Degree has a point about the Clintons and their ilk. They are horribly corrupt and they have been rorting America while the common folk get poorer. If Trump is bad, so are they. And then there is their sanctimonious political correctness. One can understand why the mob is angry.

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