Why angry white-America fell for Putin - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14749291
interesting and stimulating post Paradigm but,
Paradigm wrote:Trump succeeded largely by noticing three places where the Republican party was out of step with their base: trade, Islam, and Russia.

What about race and immigration? Remember Trumps' "they're rapists speech". Nothing about trade, Muslims or Russia. You see I've long sought a confrontation with Islam, I've long sought a war with Islam but I've been virtually alone.

The left don't want a war with Islam they see it as a cover for imperialist aggression abroad and racist division of the working class at home.

The establishment don't want a war with Islam, it would create numerous complications to the cozy life of the West's elite.

The Zionists don't want a war with Islam, they need the Sunni terror states and non state terror groups to stop Iran and co.

The Neo cons certainly didn't want a war with Islam, they wanted Christians, Jews and Muslims to get Kumbaiai and make the world safe for rich people.

However the racist right has been no more interested in a war with Islam than anyone else.

He took the side of civilizational conservatives against the globalists, and declared war against the barbarians. So as Trump gets more cozy with Russia, we can expect to see the War on Terror fully evolve into a global War on Islam.

Well maybe, maybe not?
#14749301
Donald Trump’s choice of female partners reflects the yearnings and inclinations of these angry, white men—many of whom, one imagines, now comprise his base. Two of his three wives come from Slavic, ex-Communist countries. His shortest marriage was to an American. When Trump praises Putin, it’s probably not just because he wants to build a hotel in St. Petersburg or has an ex-campaign manager who allegedly made a bundle in Ukraine. It’s probably because Trump thinks, like many of his supporters may think, that the Russians get it.


Donald Trump likes to have a beautiful trophy wife like a model or actress and young American women are unlikely to fall for Trump because of his age and bad reputation. Eastern Europe is full of desperate but pretty women who would get married with rich American men for money. Ivana Trump left Czechoslovakia for Canada and worked as a model and she eventually met Trump. Melania Trump is her replacement.
#14749306
One Degree wrote:Just intersperse your comments with mine and it will make sense. I answered you comment for comment but your comments disappeared.

Oh, what's the point? You contradicted yourself in your first post, your thoughts are so disjointed you can't explain them, and now you can't even be bothered to retype them. As far as I can tell, your argument consists of "the majority is allowed to tell the minority how to live their lives, unless I'm in the minority, in which case they have to back off". You're a hypocrite who can't even reason well enough to realise you're a hypocrite.
#14749307
Actually I view myself as just the opposite. I enjoy exposing the hypocrisy of those who accuse others of being prejudiced. Have you not noticed the people who yell 'racist' are the very ones who show extreme intolerance to those who oppose them by calling them derogatory names?
Last edited by One Degree on 13 Dec 2016 21:17, edited 2 times in total.
#14749308
@ThirdTerm
I hear other reasons why American men like to marry eastern European women. One predominantly is because they have not been brainwashed by feminism all their lives. Therefore womanhood still survives in them and they won't file for divorce when next time they feel they are not in "love" anymore.

This could explain Trump's first failed marriage. As a lot of men in the west are completely fed up what feminism has done to their women. Although this is changing nowadays as well, as western feminism is creeping into eastern Europe, destroying family values with it.

Tewodros III wrote:Fucking western scum had their chance, you were suppose to leave Warsaw states alone. You was not to interfare in Yugoslavia, you was suppose to help Russia during it's horrid economy crises, hell the "jew" George Soros, wanted to help Russia and Eastern Countries through another Marshal Plan'. You blew it and now you white nationalists, want solidarity with Russia? Hell no, West will get what they deserve hopefully a nuke, I sick of regressive imperialists causing harm in the world and getting off without consequence.
What is wrong with you? Did you forget I'm Russian immigrant? :eh:

Did Nation of Islam finally erased your previous life memory or something?

I hope Trump outlaws that organization once and for all. As it proven itself to be again and again hostile towards American people.

And it is a bit ironic that you rant about white nationalism while being a black nationalist yourself. Lololol
#14749316
One Degree wrote:Actually I view myself as just the opposite. I enjoy exposing the hypocrisy of those who accuse others of being prejudiced. Have you not noticed the people who yell 'racist' are the very ones who show extreme intolerance to those who oppose them by calling them derogatory names?

As I said, you can't even reason well enough to realise you're a hypocrite.
#14749318
There are two aspects to this in my opinion.
1) Values: Putin has styled himself successfully as a defender of conservative values.
2) Unnecessary aggravation: Don't poke the bear unless there is no alternative.
#14749320
Rugoz wrote:Sounds like nonsense.

I think "angry white America" doesn't give a shit about Putin or Russia or anything that happens outside the US of A.


This is mostly true. The post WWII hiccup of prosperity for the working class was never going to last. As the rest of the world caught up, US relative manufacturing dominance had nowhere to go but down. Maybe protectionism could have slowed that, maybe not. it certainly wan't going to stop it.

This is the underlying reality that fuels the current political landscape. We chose to apply the same shock doctrine to the rust belt and the rural south as we did to the former soviet republics. The ensuing rebellion is predictable.
#14749321
Political Interest wrote:There is no realistic reason for the Americans to dislike Russia. In the old days Russia was a communist country and it made sense to oppose the Soviet Union on ideological grounds. Now there is absolutely no reason to be anti-Russian other than geopolitics and games of empire.


"Games of empire," that is to say imperialism, is inevitable as capitalism develops.

A hundred years ago there were those that stood up and said that if there was just one last push, one last change, then there could be an, "ultra-imperialism" that would be, "a federation of the strongest, who renounce their arms race."

This is essentially the conclusion that Fukuyama came to when he declared an End of History that was just that. He continues to back peddle, saying that he's correct in the thesis declaring recently:

Fukuyama wrote:It's hard to see how we can be entering a new cold war when China and Russia have both happily accepted the capitalist half of the partnership between capitalism and democracy. (Mao and Stalin, by contrast, pursued self-defeating, autarkic economic policies.) The Chinese Communist Party's leadership recognizes that its legitimacy depends on continued breakneck growth. In Russia, the economic motivation for embracing capitalism is much more personal: Putin and much of the Russian elite have benefited enormously from their control of natural resources and other assets.

Democracy's only real competitor in the realm of ideas today is radical Islamism.


Because big powers with similar systems have never gone to war, and the idea of brown people with other ideas are what is what is preventing an end of history with a kind of ultra-imperialism.

Cut to a century ago when Lenin addressed brown people with other ideas in the context of empire:

Lenin wrote:In the United States, the imperialist war waged against Spain in 1898 stirred up the opposition of the “anti-imperialists”, the last of the Mohicans of bourgeois democracy who declared this war to be “criminal”, regarded the annexation of foreign territories as a violation of the Constitution, declared that the treatment of Aguinaldo, leader of the Filipinos (the Americans promised him the independence of his country, but later landed troops and annexed it), was “jingo treachery”, and quoted the words of Lincoln: “When the white man governs himself, that is self-government; but when he governs himself and also governs others, it is no longer self-government; it is despotism.” [2] But as long, as all this criticism shrank from recognising the inseverable bond between imperialism and the trusts, and, therefore, between imperialism and the foundations of capitalism, while it shrank from joining the forces engendered by large-scale capitalism and its development-it remained a “pious wish”.

This is also the main attitude taken by Hobson in his critique of imperialism. Hobson anticipated Kautsky in protesting against the “inevitability of imperialism” argument, and in urging the necessity of “increasing the consuming capacity” of the people (under capitalism!). The petty-bourgeois point of view in the critique of imperialism, the omnipotence of the banks, the financial oligarchy, etc., is adopted by the authors I have often quoted, such as Agahd, A. Lansburgh, L. Eschwege, and among the French writers Victor Berard, author of a superficial book entitled England and Imperialism which appeared in 1900. All these authors, who make no claim to be Marxists, contrast imperialism with free competition and democracy, condemn the Baghdad railway scheme, which is leading to conflicts and war, utter “pious wishes” for peace, etc. This applies also to the compiler of international stock and share issue statistics, A. Neymarck, who, after calculating the thousands of millions of francs representing “international” securities, exclaimed in 1912: “Is it possible to believe that peace may be disturbed ... that, in the face of these enormous figures, anyone would risk starting a war?”

Such simple-mindedness on the part of the bourgeois economists is not surprising; moreover, it is in their interest to pretend to be so naive and to talk “seriously” about peace under imperialism.

...whether of one imperialist coalition against another, or of a general alliance embracing all the imperialist powers, are inevitably nothing more than a “truce” in periods between wars. Peaceful alliances prepare the ground for wars, and in their turn grow out of wars; the one conditions the other, producing alternating forms of peaceful and non-peaceful struggle on one and the same basis of imperialist connections and relations within world economics and world politics.


Two World Wars, a near Third World War, countless imperialist actions by the United States, Britain, and France, Russian and Chinese projections of power later, and if we can just accept bourgeois peace in our hearts, perhaps imperialism will become a choice instead of a fact of capitalism.

The reason that the US and Russia haven't found a peace is because of capitalism, straight up. It's been true for at least a hundred years, and we need to accept that.
#14749328
The Immortal Goon wrote:The reason that the US and Russia haven't found a peace is because of capitalism, straight up. It's been true for at least a hundred years, and we need to accept that.


Internal peace is the first prerequisite of external peace. In that respect, capitalism is (as you suggest) the ultimate cause. But I would disagree slightly. Capitalism is the penultimate, not ultimate, cause, with the real culprit lying within human nature. Communism will never permanently be a solution, because capitalism is just human nature scaled up. This is not a particular indictment of communism - at least the attempt to form a just society was there. What we don't have a good handle on is why it was so easy (inevitable?) to subvert that attempt, and how do we form a way of living together that is less susceptible to bad people.

We don't yet have a clear path to curing the depredations of capitalism. One that is sustainable and robust, and not just another form of oligarchy.
#14749329
Albert wrote:
What is wrong with you? Did you forget I'm Russian immigrant? :eh:

Did Nation of Islam finally erased your previous life memory or something?

I hope Trump outlaws that organization once and for all. As it proven itself to be again and again hostile towards American people.

And it is a bit ironic that you rant about white nationalism while being a black nationalist yourself. Lololol
No, as soon as you're a willing immigrant in the US, being an western shill, I'll treat you as the enemy. Oh, what "American people" the klan, altrags other treasonous confederate bastards?
#14749333
We don't yet have a clear path to curing the depredations of capitalism. One that is sustainable and robust, and not just another form of oligarchy.


Communism failed because it wanted to eliminate the elite. I believe the solution is to be found in the opposite direction. You need to dramatically increase the numbers of the elite. The problem does not arise from them being elite, but from there being so few of them they can exercise control.
Strong anti trust laws are a start and of course I prefer my personal views on banning non resident ownership and strong local autonomy.
#14749347
The Immortal Goon wrote:"Games of empire," that is to say imperialism, is inevitable as capitalism develops.

Good grief, Marxism really does seem to addle the brains of otherwise intelligent people. I don't know when you imagine capitalism to have started, but when was this mythical pre capitalist age when people didn't engage in Games of Empire?

What pre capitalist civilisation, what pre "capitalist" State society, was not interested in Games of Empire? Your statement just beggars belief.
#14749366
Rich wrote:Good grief, Marxism really does seem to addle the brains of otherwise intelligent people. I don't know when you imagine capitalism to have started, but when was this mythical pre capitalist age when people didn't engage in Games of Empire?

What pre capitalist civilisation, what pre "capitalist" State society, was not interested in Games of Empire? Your statement just beggars belief.


I'm sorry, I thought the examples I gave, citations left, and people quoted would make it obvious that I was speaking of a later context of imperialism.

You seem to not know what that is. Here are some very simple sources that are written at a beginner's level since you're just starting out:



The first slide for starting Ed Tech 2 from Boise State wrote:Imperialism occurs when a strong nation takes over a weaker nation or region and dominates its economic, political, and cultural life.
After the Industrial Revolution, this became a common practice of European nations seeking new sources of raw materials and markets to sell manufactured products.

Industrialized countries of the west sought to expand their economies by obtaining raw materials which could be transported back to factories, turned into manufactured goods, and shipped back to the colonies markets for sale.


Small Planet Teaching wrote:The Age of Imperialism

During the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the United States pursued an aggressive policy of expansionism, extending its political and economic influence around the globe. That pivotal era in the history of our nation is the subject of this online history.


Now that you know a little bit about imperialism in this context, how is it different from other forms of imperialism?

Well, now you know enough to make sense of Wikipedia

Wikipedia wrote:The qualifier "new" is to contrast with the first wave of European colonization between the 15th and early 19th centuries or imperialism in general. In the first wave of colonization, the European powers had originally conquered and colonized the Americas and later established outposts in Africa and Asia. During the era of New Imperialism, the Western powers (and Japan) conquered almost all of Africa and parts of Asia. The new wave of imperialism reflected ongoing rivalries among the great powers, the economic desire for new resources and markets, and a "civilizing mission" ethos. Many of the colonies established during this era gained independence during the era of decolonization that followed World War II.


If you continue to have problems with concepts that they taught at my very impoverished American middle school, do let me know and I'll see if I can help you understand :)
#14749378
The Immortal Goon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alJaltUmrGo)

The friendly face of self hating anti White racism. The way he twists history is incredible, nonetheless less so for being the hegemonic narrative. Hong Kong part of China? What. Saying Hong Kong is part of China is like saying that London is part of Rome. Actually London is nearer to Rome than Hong Kong was to the old Chin capitals, or to Beijing the modern Chin capital for that matter. We liberated Hong Kong from the Chinese imperialists who ruled it in the most brutal and callous manner, utterly disrespecting our modern notions of human rights. After the Commies took over the so called Chinese would die trying to escape from their Han Communist prison to the Kong Kong colony of our great empire of liberty.
#14749384
One Degree wrote:Communism failed because it wanted to eliminate the elite. I believe the solution is to be found in the opposite direction. You need to dramatically increase the numbers of the elite. The problem does not arise from them being elite, but from there being so few of them they can exercise control.
Strong anti trust laws are a start and of course I prefer my personal views on banning non resident ownership and strong local autonomy.


De-centralization, multi-nodalism, etc can only happen in a context that encourages this development, rather than actively blocking it. If you are the CEO of a major multi-national, you will want significant economic decisions as far away from local control as possible. You will even want them as far away from national control as possible, via TPP or other supranational regulatory structures.

it seems to me, that no matter how effective your 'plan' might be (or mine, for that matter), it will always bump up against the reality of corporate control of the legislative and regulatory pathways needed to effect change.

This critique is equally relevant to the alt-right 'disrupters.' They are going to find out how little the typical Trump voter will gain from the new reality (assuming they even care).
#14749389
it seems to me, that no matter how effective your 'plan' might be (or mine, for that matter), it will always bump up against the reality of corporate control of the legislative and regulatory pathways needed to effect change.


Very true and they started creating the laws long before most of us realized it was a problem and they are continually finessing them. :(
Israel-Palestinian War 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oex20hQeQp4 No, […]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhTHsvuKa4s

He's a parasite

Trump Derangement Syndrome lives. :O