Trump fans' 'Deploraball' party shows rift in alt-right movement - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14756254

Trump fans' 'Deploraball' party shows rift in alt-right movement

Supporters of U.S. President-elect Donald Trump have appropriated the phrase "basket of deplorables" - used by Hillary Clinton during the campaign to pillory some of his backers - to plan an inauguration party called the "Deploraball."

But while the intention might be to mock the defeated Democratic candidate, the planned gathering has revealed a deep schism within the ranks of a movement known as the alt-right: pitting those embracing white nationalism or outright racism against those seeking a more credible platform for hard-right conservatives.

The party will be held at the National Press Club in Washington the night before Trump is sworn in on Jan. 20, when many official inauguration events are taking place.

Organizers say the Deploraball is a cocktail party for Trump supporters from all ethnic backgrounds and no incendiary or discriminatory actions will be allowed. Organizers call themselves "Trumpists" and say they have sold 1,000 tickets ranging in price from $99 to $2,500. But after an online battle between star guests, Deploraball organizers offered ticket holders refunds "in light of recent events."

One of the original organizers of the ball, alt-right social media personality Tim Treadstone who is commonly referred to by his online persona "Baked Alaska," has been disinvited after tweeting several anti-Semitic comments, setting off angry exchanges among members of the alt-right on Twitter.

Another featured guest at the party, Mike Cernovich, has condemned Treadstone for appearing anti-Semitic and homophobic.

"The lines are drawn and the fracture is more or less complete," he said.

Cernovich, an architect of viral Internet trends promoting rumors of Clinton's supposed ill health that have been credited with helping push Trump to victory with the support of the alt-right, said he has rejected the alt-right's descent into white nationalism.

The alt-right movement, which came to the fore during the presidential campaign, is a loose grouping that rejects mainstream politics and includes neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-Semites. It had previously been more widely embraced by libertarians and the far-right fringe: people more opposed to the concept of political correctness than to racial or other diversity.

Trump has been criticized for naming Steve Bannon, former head of the Breitbart News website that is closely linked to the alt-right, as a senior White House adviser.

Days after the Nov. 8 election, the movement was strongly criticized when some Trump supporters gave Nazi salutes to alt-right leader Richard Spencer, president of the National Policy Institute, during a gathering in Washington to celebrate Trump's victory.

The incident prompted some figures linked with the alt-right to assume the term "new right" to describe themselves instead.

In an interview with New York Times journalists last month, Trump condemned the alt-right conference organized by Spencer. "I condemn them. I disavow, and I condemn," Trump said.

'NO NAZI SALUTES'

After Treadstone posted anti-Jewish tweets over the past week, Cernovich told him not to repeat the so-called "hailgate" scandal at Deploraball.

"No Nazi salutes ... or don't have your name on the event," Cernovich wrote in a series of insult-filled text messages to Treadstone that were later posted on Twitter.

The argument raged on social media between the two southern California-based men, who were once friends, egged on by their fans.

"You used the movement and now you want to distance yourself from it," Treadstone, wearing pastel-colored camouflage apparel and a bleached blond beard, said in one 45-minute video post.

The Republican president-elect, Trump, has not been formally invited to the event nor is he expected to attend, but "of course we'd be thrilled if he did," said one organizer, Jeff Giesea. Trump's transition team was not immediately available for comment on the party.

In remarks she quickly said she regretted, Clinton told a fundraiser in September that Trump had given voice to hateful rhetoric through his behavior as a candidate and that "half" of his supporters belonged in a "basket of deplorables." Trump supporters seized on the phrase as typifying snobbish put-downs by coastal elites.

The Deploraball was initially planned for the Clarendon Ballroom in Arlington, Virginia, but organizers said the venue was switched because of pressure on the Clarendon from Clinton supporters. The Clarendon, a private events venue and nightclub, denied that and said in a statement it decided not to issue a contract "due to the suspicious actions of the organizers."

Performers will include singer Scott Isbell and classical pianist Stephen Limbaugh, according to the organizers, who have also invited rapper Kanye West but have not heard back. Treadstone, a former rapper and orchestrator of pro-Trump flash-mobs, had also been scheduled to perform.

BREITBART TECH EDITOR

Another guest star will be Breitbart's U.S. technology editor, Milo Yiannopoulos, organizers say.

Yiannopoulos has been criticized for comments he has made about Muslims, Black Lives Matter activists and feminists. Twitter banned him in July for inciting harassment of the actress Leslie Jones. The Hollywood Reporter reported on Thursday he had secured a book deal and quoted him as saying, "They said banning me from Twitter would finish me off. Just as I predicted, the opposite has happened." (bit.ly/2hzszWy)

Treadstone said the main difference between himself and the so-called new right, including Cernovich and Yiannopoulos, is the explicit support of white nationalism.

"If you don't support white advocacy, you cannot be alt-right and that's where a lot of people are running into a problem," he told Reuters.

Cernovich, who says Treadstone is increasingly fixated on Jewish conspiracy theory, said the branch of former alt-righters he belongs to are more inclusive and are primarily focused on populism, nationalism and the rejection of "victim culture and identity politics."

The group also has no clear leader, unlike with white nationalist alt-right, which looks to Spencer, he said.

Giesea described "Trumpism" as a new breed of Republicanism and said it was still a work-in-progress. "We're in the process of constructing it, and it's messy," he said.

Reuters


Not entirely unexpected that this discussion would happen at some stage.

Is white advocacy necessary for the alt-right? And is it the same as white nationalism?
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Cernovich, who says Treadstone is increasingly fixated on Jewish conspiracy theory, said the branch of former alt-righters he belongs to are more inclusive and are primarily focused on populism, nationalism and the rejection of "victim culture and identity politics."

To me, white nationalist politics is like the white version of victim culture/identity politics. They have their little safe spaces where only their opinions are allowed to be heard, and other voices are banned as being "trolling", and they believed that they have been victimized by multiculturalism. Maybe I just have an unfavorable view of the alt-right because they always seemed like they are the white version of being PC. If you say that differences between people are based on culture and not genetics, they treat you with the same condescending ignorance that they accuse others of having.
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This is something they're going to have to grapple with.

Though I oppose both sides bitterly, my general feeling is that if the alt-right doesn't go full on and embrace something as sordid as racism, they're going to just be absorbed into the GOP mainstream and be as influential as, say, the Log Cabin Republicans.

Though I tend to think both sides have the same ultimate solution:

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#14756345
I was noticing this happening as well. There seems to be difference in perspective of what constitutes one as a national.

One is a civic nationalism approach. That says you are part of us, if you share our culture and allegiance to the state.

The other is more of ethnic nationalism rooted in physique and blood as well as culture.

This split was bound to come onto surface. I wonder which approach will persevere.
#14756457
I was noticing this happening as well. There seems to be difference in perspective of what constitutes one as a national.

One is a civic nationalism approach. That says you are part of us, if you share our culture and allegiance to the state.

The other is more of ethnic nationalism rooted in physique and blood as well as culture.

This split was bound to come onto surface. I wonder which approach will persevere.


The vast majority of people want cultural nationalism. Pursuit of ethnic nationalism is in the best interest of the political elite. This is just part of the battle between corporate interests and what the people want. Divide and conquer techniques of the Oligarchy.
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I dont think we can label elite into one category. They are people as well and Im sure they are divided on this as the rest of the population is.

There are liberals who are elite, who probably have radical progressive liberals and just your average classical liberals in their mist. Although these days radical progressive liberalism has become mainstream since the 60s so I suspect most of them are od radical type and are nit even aware of it, like the rest of the population.

Then there are nationalist/American reactionary/nativist like Trump. Trump I suspect is actually an ethno nationalist to be honest.
#14756468
Ethno nationalism is not as rigit as most people assume it is. Civic nationalism is a very liberal idea to begin with, I would say most people are actually ethnic nationalist. It is more in human nature to be so.

Most liberal societies prior to early 20th century were more ethno nationaly orioented then civic wise. Nationality was recognized by birth to a citizen rather then on soil. Although I believe US did differ in this regard since revolution, but then they had segregation anyways. Things began to change in liberal Europe around early 20th century and laws were passed to reflect that. Then after WW2 shit went crazy with multiculturalism with radical liberal approach of what seems to be of no national identity. This is not even civic nationalism in my opinion as in the end you need some sort of culture to run a state, like a common language for example, in which laws will be written and understood.
#14756475
Sad that in 50 years neo-nazis have accomplish less to get their ideas mainstream and it took a shitty weeb memers with hentai pic as avatars 3 years and all from some gamegate crap. These are Hitler's successors people: not neo-nazis, some pasty white bastards posting memes, showing guns thinking they're the punisher and anime. Commodity fetishism comes full circle, let's see which race starts the Turner Diaries first: Altrags or Black Nationalists.
#14756488
In the US, culture is only discussed in racial terms. It makes it very difficult to separate the two, which leaves it wide open for racist exploitation. Try having a conversation about different cultures without it becoming strictly about race. You can not do it in the US.
#14756494
Well in US national identity is more based on race then ethnicity. In Europe you have discussions about if that person is English, Scottish, Polish or German. In US it is more if that person is of European (white) ancestry or African, Asian and so on. It is different indeed.

In general it seems most people are assimilated into a loose anglo culture that America had inherited. But it appears historically this has been not enough to eliminate difference between Africans and Europeans for example.

In the end, American national issue does differ because of this.
#14756577
Maybe because for most of the time since the end of the civil war a large segment of whites have hated blacks and other minorities or at least treated them extremely poorly? While a bigger portion of whites have watched on indifferent? We had a president that claimed to be a progressive while watching Birth of a Nation and segregating the civil service. Whites have been racial troublemakers, historically, but somehow in the last twenty years they think that every racial problem was solved because there's no Jim Crow.
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I find it very strange that there are those people who condemn others for being nationalists. I am a self confessed nationalist and despise multiculturalism. Human beings are pack animals, and the majority of us feel comfortable among our own people, and uncomfortable round different cultures.

My son is a stinking liberal and believes the planet is a giant village where people should be able to roam freely. Of course, that is a great ideal, but in practice will never work. In my world Trump is a breath of fresh air. His first priority is his country, and as far as he is concerned his country comes first, and if that means other countries suffer as a result, so be it. I genuinely wish we had a Trump in charge of the UK, and that's why I like Farage so much. Next year see's the biggest vote of them all, bigger than Brexit, bigger than the U.S elections, and even bigger than the Premier League. Marine LePen and her party may well take leadership of France. I believe if this happens France will leave the EU and in turn the EU will collapse leaving behind years of mass corruption. As a result the strong countries will prosper, and the badly run countries will suffer (big deal). The U.S and France may well get to show the rest of the world how things should be done, and I just can't wait !!
#14756843
I never understood why nationalists wanted other nationalists elected in other countries. If you're so interested in furthering the interests of your own country, you should want your country to be the only one trying to take advantage of the weaknesses of other countries. Of course, we all know that's not what it's all about, is it?
#14756875
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:Whites have been racial troublemakers, historically,

And what have none Whites been? What race has respected human rights? Its White people who invented the idea of human rights. Its White people who invented anti-racism. But White supremacism is not something we should be ashamed of, its something we should be deeply proud of. White supremacism was a huge moral advance over the bestial savagery that lay outside Europe. The idea that all White people had rights regardless of nation, language or creed.

Black Africans, East Asians, Native Americans proved utterly incapable of reaching Continental racial consciousness without European intervention. The idea that White people have anything to apologise to non White people is a pathetic joke. White people are the saviours of Black Africa not its oppressors.
#14756877
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:Maybe because for most of the time since the end of the civil war a large segment of whites have hated blacks and other minorities or at least treated them extremely poorly? While a bigger portion of whites have watched on indifferent? We had a president that claimed to be a progressive while watching Birth of a Nation and segregating the civil service. Whites have been racial troublemakers, historically, but somehow in the last twenty years they think that every racial problem was solved because there's no Jim Crow.
Go live in Africa, then you can tell me all about how whites are racial trouble makers.
#14756881
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:
Maybe because for most of the time since the end of the civil war a large segment of whites have hated blacks and other minorities or at least treated them extremely poorly? While a bigger portion of whites have watched on indifferent? We had a president that claimed to be a progressive while watching Birth of a Nation and segregating the civil service. Whites have been racial troublemakers, historically, but somehow in the last twenty years they think that every racial problem was solved because there's no Jim Crow.


I find it very disappointing someone could be so ignorant of history to believe racism is strictly a problem of whites, and especially American whites. America has it's racial issues, but if you look at the world objectively you will see American whites are probably the least racist people in the world. Asians and many Africans are worse. Europeans are just now finding out they are no better when being confronted with demographics not even approaching what the US has. When you have large cultural conflicts identified by race then everyone is going to show some racism.
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