[Know It All]

I am glad you like him and we agree then. Only time will tell. The great thing is that world politics is changing and Liberals may have had their day

[Godstud]

Like Trump? He's an epic cocksucker, liar, and conman. No. I despise him and everything that he represents. You're trolling.

[Atlantis]

Anyway, if we compare them with three Western successor states which aren't imperistic:

Australia- parliament is sovereign, two parties (one is a coalition but operates as one party)
Canada- parliament is sovereign, two parties dominant
New Zealand - parliament is sovereign, two main parties.

In none of these three nations is there any notion of greatness amongst the people.

If the presidential system and/or two-party system is important for supporting imperialism, it doesn't mean that all countries with a two-party system have to be imperialist.

Obviously, NZ, OZ, etc. are too small to create an empire of their own. They are content to be part of the Anglo-Empire, for example, in the form of joint military missions (North Korea, Vietnam, ... down to Ukraine), joint spying and mass observation by the so-called "5 Eyes" alliance, etc.

The Brexiteers also consider the Anglosphere as an alternative to EU-membership.

The two-party systems in the UK and the US are viewed as anachronistic and detrimental by many people. If they are maintained it is because of geopolitical ambitions.

Can you imagine Blair invading Iraq or May Brexitting in a coalition government, for example, with the Green party?

[Rugoz]

Iran - actually a democracy. This one might be more like a Western imperial power than many think.

What?

A country where last year 99% of reformist candidates were barred from running for parliament by the Guardian Council?

[Godstud]

Canada- parliament is sovereign, two parties dominant

That's incorrect. Canada has 3 dominant parties... Liberals, Progressive Conservatives, and the New Democratic Party, with several other parties that are now weaker, or non-existent. Canada's reform party joined the PCs a decade or so ago. Just thought I'd mention that. Canada's a constitutional monarchy, as well.

Syria is a democracy, as well. Some people like to forget that.

[Know It All]

Like Trump? He's an epic cocksucker, liar, and conman. No. I despise him and everything that he represents. You're trolling.

So me and 52% of the American public are trolling LOL

[Godstud]

You mean the 52% of the voters that didn't vote for Trump? You know he lost the popular vote, right?

[Know It All]

You mean the 52% of the voters that didn't vote for Trump? You know he lost the popular vote, right?

I think your missing the point, the % is irrelevant. You accuse me of trolling despite the fact I reflect the views of millions of Americans. I have been posting on forums for many years, and it's very common for one poster to accuse another of being a troll just because they don't share their own opinions.

[Godstud]

You were accusing me of being a Trump supporter, when I was, and am, clearly not. That's TROLLING.

[Know It All]

Progressive liberals should agree, who are we to tell people what to do in the bedroom? Godstud is just a hateful bigot who is stuck in caveman thinking.

He wants to deny love to people, that beautiful thing that people just want to share between one another. Yet for some reason he feels he has the right to tell people what to do. When it does not even effect him in any way!

I would like to jump here. You may not agree with Godstud, but he has the right to believe what he wants. Mathematically speaking Islam will eventually become the biggest religion in the country, at which point gay people will get stoned anyway, so don't think it's here to stay, because it's not.

From a personal viewpoint I don't care what two consenting adults do behind closed doors, but I can fully understand why other people find it repellent. I for one am disgusted when I see two men kissing on television, and have personally written to ITV on this point. The fact is that homosexuality is a perversion, it may be a legal and acceptable perversion, but it's a perversion all the same. Children are now being told it's normal, where they should be told it's acceptable, there's a difference.

Remember, laws and and legislation can be changed in heartbeat, opinions can't

[anna]

1) He actually answers questions, rather than skipping around them.

He avoids questions very well, I'll give him that. He knows how to talk about something entirely unrelated and wander so far off into the weeds that the interview moves on to the next question. I remember him being asked about his relationship to God, and his answer was all about how he was a businessman and he went to Wharton. His presidential bio could be titled "I'm Skipping as Fast as I Can."

Here's an example of him NOT answering questions, and skipping around them:

Interviewing with Chris Wallace:

In October, Wallace asked: “Would you be willing to use the debt limit and risk the possibility of the country going into default to get more spending cuts?”

Trump’s response: “I want to be unpredictable, because, you know, we need unpredictability. Everything is so predictable with our country.”

Wallace changed the subject.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... f002240e7c

[quetzalcoatl]

@Know It All

I like your sig. I would use it myself. Just remember conservatism is a form of liberalism (in the classic sense). Conservatives and 'liberals' both attempt to preserve the status quo by preventing disruptive efforts at structural change. The structure being preserved is corporate oligarchy, also known as liberal capitalism, liberal democracy, or just liberalism.

For tactical reasons, Trump has chosen to project an image of being an outsider, even a radical. He is not. He is a traditional conservative - that is to say, he is a liberal.

[One Degree]

“Would you be willing to use the debt limit and risk the possibility of the country going into default to get more spending cuts?”

I don't suppose you recognize this as a, "have you quit beating your wife?" question? Of course, he could not answer it directly.

[anna]

I don't suppose you recognize this as a, "have you quit beating your wife?" question? Of course, he could not answer it directly. :?:

I don't suppose you recognize that when it comes to Donald Trump, you've shown that you routinely defend the indefensible.

Here's a quote from the great social psychologist Leon Festinger, author of the book When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group That Predicted the Destruction of the World. Great story and social psychology study.

I hope you'll give this some serious consideration:

A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point. We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks.

But man's resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view.

[One Degree]

I hope you'll give this some serious consideration:

A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point. We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks.

But man's resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view.

Meh, I gave this careful consideration decades ago. It applies to everyone. I have changed who I am more than any other person I have met. I simply toss crumbs of my reality on our common river and let you do what you wish with them. I search through this river for the crumbs of others which may alter my reality. I learned many years ago that what I tell you today, or what you tell me today, will have the most impact (if any) years from now. To expect sudden change is to remain forever disappointed. This is why the above wisdom you quoted is totally wrong. We do change others, we just are not around to see it.

[anna]

Meh, I gave this careful consideration decades ago.

Sure you did.

It applies to everyone.

No one said otherwise.

I have changed who I am more than any other person I have met.

You do you.

I simply toss crumbs of my reality on our common river and let you do what you wish with them. I search through this river for the crumbs of others which may alter my reality. I learned many years ago that what I tell you today, or what you tell me today, will have the most impact (if any) years from now. To expect sudden change is to remain forever disappointed. This is why the above wisdom you quoted is totally wrong. We do change others, we just are not around to see it.

Carry on warrior, I wouldn't want to stand in the way of such personal aggrandizement.

[QatzelOk]

This thread is seriously derailed. There is no evidence that Trunp is an advocate of conservative Christian sexual mores. His statements have been evasive.

If anything, this exchange merely emphasizes Trump's Rosarch Effect. His followers freely project their own beliefs onto the King.

There is a good reason that this thread has been derailed.

The Mind of Donald Trump is ordinary and common. The Mind of Donald Trump is similar to the minds of a great number of Americans, especially among the rich and aspirational middle class.

We all know people who kiss ass to get ahead, lie when they will get away with it, and cheat a bit just to get an advantage over other people. We all know people who have sacrificed getting any kind of liberal arts education (general education) in order to concentrate on money-making skills exclusively. These are the various strategies that are used in a competitive consumer society built on vanity and hyperconsumption.

So what is more important to discuss is "what has happened to the American mind?" How did it get so dumbed down that it obsesses about showbiz gossip and competitive identity politics and can no longer discuss what is in the best interest of "the nation?"

Is there any nation left to even consider? Or has the USA become "a mercenary people without a nation?"

[anna]

There is a good reason that this thread has been derailed.

Sometimes some good conversations come out of thread derailments, and sometimes they're not really derailments, more like tangential conversations. It's pretty evident by now that a discussion of the mind of Trump is likely to wander into the territory of the minds of his supporters and his opposition, in part because he's so polarizing.

The Mind of Donald Trump is ordinary and common. The Mind of Donald Trump is similar to the minds of a great number of Americans, especially among the rich and aspirational middle class.

I suppose someone saying that might consider his mind to be extraordinary and uncommon?

So what is more important to discuss is "what has happened to the American mind?" How did it get so dumbed down that it obsesses about showbiz gossip and competitive identity politics and can no longer discuss what is in the best interest of "the nation?"

That would be a good conversation to have.

Is there any nation left to even consider? Or has the USA become "a mercenary people without a nation?"

There's a nation, sure. It's not like it's ever been or will be a utopia, though, people being what we are. We'll muddle along somehow, regardless.

[quetzalcoatl]

So what is more important to discuss is "what has happened to the American mind?" How did it get so dumbed down that it obsesses about showbiz gossip and competitive identity politics and can no longer discuss what is in the best interest of "the nation?"

Is there any nation left to even consider? Or has the USA become "a mercenary people without a nation?"

I guess I mostly agree with this. Trump is not 'disruptive' in the sense his supporters believe that he is. He, like Clinton, is one more intermediate step in the path to corporate oligarchy. So, I would ask you, Qatz, what is the horse and what is the cart?

Do you blame the people for following the path laid out for them or those that designed, built, and paved the path?

[MistyTiger]

All discussions have the potential to be derailed.

Trump is one of the unhealthiest presidents, I think. His face looks orange probably because he has hypertension, the red blends with his skin tone to make orange. I bet if he tried to run a mile he would collapse. His mental health seems to be off too. He has anger problems and who knows what else?

Trump is common in how highly he regards himself and his abilities. His mind is uncommon in that he likes to create unpredictability just for the sake of it. I think he likes to watch people's reactions. You could term him a manipulator. He is like a kid who wants to press all the blinking buttons on the control panel of a submarine.

Changing the status quo can be good at times. But volatility could be bad for the economy as well, but we will not know how he will affect the world and world economies until it has been several years.