[Decky]

Well this is a cheerful conversation.

[noemon]

I once accidentally overdosed on Tramadol (I had an infected root canal). Believe me, you don't want to go out via that door! Get a gun and put it in your mouth, pull the trigger, bam! Instant, painless death.

Those frigging root canals are the bane of my life. The tooth I was talking about earlier getting infected again, it eventually broke and I had it removed last week, so another week spent on antibiotics.

[Frollein]

The pain was so bad I banged my head against the wall. You have my sincere sympathy.

[Tewodros III]

Those frigging root canals are the bane of my life. The tooth I was talking about earlier getting infected again, it eventually broke and I had it removed last week, so another week spent on antibiotics.

What did you eat?

[Tewodros III]

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yes

[XogGyux]

I would like to know what everyone thinks about euthanasia, but not just from a humanitarian basis, but also from a logical outlook.

Very few people don't agree that there should be tightly controlled euthanasia on an ethical basis. My own mother passed away last month after being in a vegetative state for two years. She couldn't feed herself, she was doubly incontinent, she couldn't communicate, and she couldn't even roll over in bed. The law in this country considers it the best thing to do to keep people like this alive, whereas if it were your dog you would be arrested for cruelty. There are those who believe that the only person who should make such a call is the person in question, however, I would argue people such as my mother would not be able to do so. There are also people who believe that relatives may benefit financially from the death of a euthanasia case. I believe these are just semantics, and it's about time we followed countries such as Holland and Switzerland and put measures in place.

Now, how about looking at Euthanasia in a more logical and political sense. Our planet has in the region of 6.5 billion human beings living on it, and that's by far the most overpopulated mammal on earth. We don't hesitate when it comes to culling deer, badgers, or foxes, and their populations are a tiny fraction of ours. We are happy to execute a dog because it has bitten someone, but society is prepared to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds keeping somebody alive after they have murdered a series of other human beings. Of course, the more religious amongst us believe man kind are a totally unique creature created by a mythical being, whereas logically we are just another animal who occupies space on what is a rather small and insignificant planet. Because of our progress the average age of a human being in the western world has increased significantly, which in turn has created a host of social and financial problems. In a cold and uncaring world it could be argued that we should be put to death at a given age. Just think, we could plan our money properly, we would have less chance of dying a long and miserable death, we could attempt to complete our bucket lists before it's to late, we wouldn't cost the NHS so much money, and the state could afford to retire us early and give us all a better pension. As much as that is a faultless plan, it's not going to happen (well, not in our life times anyway). If we don't do something, we are either going to implode or have to find a another planet to live on. I believe the latter is science fiction by the way. Maybe it's time to start looking at the human race the same way we look at other species. Living longer is fine, surviving longer is crazy.

So what ideas do you have, baring in mind your answers have to be both logical and realistic. OK, I will get the ball rolling, and here are a few realistic suggestions

1) Allow any person to request euthanasia if they are a) over a given age b) have a terminal illness
2) Allow a relative to apply for euthanasia for a loved one. This could be put to a professional panel
3) Reintroduce the death penalty for any person considered to be a long term drain on society. In my opinion if a person
can't be rehabilitated, society shouldn't be picking up the bill.

Though I agree with the necessity of having a robust system for end-of-life/euthanasia I think the argument/reasons you are using are not the best. For one, you fall into the "slippery" slope argument that leads to all those dreadful "dystopian future" that we see in movies (e.g. kill those old "burden" people that are terminal and just a drain in society, kill those criminals/life sentence prisoners for the same reason and by that logic you could very well end up killing HIV patients, most type of cancers, some/most genetic defects, mentally retarded people, homeless, etc and before you know it you are in a genocidal society. In other words, I strongly disagree that "getting rid of burden people" is a reasonable argument at all.

I don't think we need the "utilitarian" argument to address this. Humanitarian mercy is all we need for most cases. Will definitely cover those that are dying in pain and have the mental capacity to decide for themselves, it will also cover those who simply do not want to live (although I'd advocate for a 2 physician medical evaluation and a relatively long -at least 1 month- period of consideration before proceeding). This might fall a bit short for those people who have no advance-directives and that are already in vegetative state (similar to the case you described with your mother). In this case I think between direct relatives, medical professionals opinion and a short ethics committee review a solution on a per-case basis could be reached. Furthermore as euthanasia becomes more and more a "everyday" affair, more and more people might end up making advance directives (even if in the form of a small "I do not want to live in vegetative state" statement in the driver's license.

I once accidentally overdosed on Tramadol (I had an infected root canal). Believe me, you don't want to go out via that door! Get a gun and put it in your mouth, pull the trigger, bam! Instant, painless death.

Actually I know people that tried to commit suicide by putting a gun to her mouth and the bullet deviated and ended up costing her an eye, most of her teeth, complete disfigurement of her face and some brain damage. She lived for many years after. I remember out of medschool, the very first interview for a residency that I had a resident told us (we were a bit anxious about starting a job where we would have the life of people in our hands for the very first time) "you'd be surprised how much work it takes to kill a human being" (referring to the fact that even inexperienced doctors are unlikely to kill someone by accident with a single mistake, it takes many mistakes or someone that is already basically dead.)

I won't suggest any better method to suicide as this seems to be going the wrong way .

[Suntzu]

Use the same stuff vets use, phentobarbatol.

[Tewodros III]

Use the same stuff vets use, phentobarbatol.

Alcohol is a perfect euthanasia, and considering republicans going to privatize the Vet programs and organizations, alot of Vet "euthanasia" is going to be on the rise.

[XogGyux]

Alcohol is a perfect euthanasia, and considering republicans going to privatize the Vet programs and organizations, alot of Vet "euthanasia" is going to be on the rise.

WTH are you talking about. Dying from alcohol OD is neither clean/humane nor is it reliable or fast. It is terrible. Today, where it is used, euthanasia is achieved with sedatives (anesthetic) to provoke respiratory depression. Although I suspect that as it becomes widespread a more sophisticated "cocktail" will be preferable (similar to lethal injection, although perhaps not exactly the same as I bet that will be insult people's sensitivities).

[Tewodros III]

WTH are you talking about. Dying from alcohol OD is neither clean/humane nor is it reliable or fast. It is terrible. Today, where it is used, euthanasia is achieved with sedatives (anesthetic) to provoke respiratory depression. Although I suspect that as it becomes widespread a more sophisticated "cocktail" will be preferable (similar to lethal injection, although perhaps not exactly the same as I bet that will be insult people's sensitivities).

I'm making a play on words how the number one killer of vets is alcohol and homelessness.

[One Degree]

I won't suggest any better method to suicide as this seems to be going the wrong way .

How about your opinion in a simple yes or no. I thought Diazepam mixed with alcohol simply caused you to go to sleep and not wake up. Is this true? 31% of suicides are medications mixed with alcohol. I assume there is a reason most people choose this route.

[XogGyux]

How about your opinion in a simple yes or no. I thought Diazepam mixed with alcohol simply caused you to go to sleep and not wake up. Is this true? 31% of suicides are medications mixed with alcohol. I assume there is a reason most people choose this route.

Diazepam is in essence alcohol in a pill in the sense that it damages the liver in the same way and works in the same way in your brain (both increases the actions of GABA) causing depressive (physiological) status. So in essence using both at the same time potentiates each other. Alcohol will make diazepam deadlier and vise versa.
Can it kill you? Hell yea, but I don't think its a particularly clean way to go nor reliable (different people have different toleration, etc). Probably death would happen due to respiratory depression (hopefully, you sleep and die) as the alternative might be shocking in your own vomit. You could survive to then die a few days later from fulminant hepatitis or from acute pancreatitis (very very painful and can take a few days). You could survive but aspirate your own vomit to then die from a narcotizing pneumonia days or week later.
I cannot comment on how many people choose this route compared to others. Statistically, women are the most likely to use poisonous methods (including medicine) while men uses more violent means (shooting in their head, hanging, jumping off a building, etc). But statistically men are more successful at killing themselves compared to women.

[One Degree]

Can it kill you? Hell yea, but I don't think its a particularly clean way to go nor reliable

I suspected as much since our bodies are not fond of dying. Home remedies all have their drawbacks which is why euthanasia needs to become more accessible for more people.
Thanks for the info.

[XogGyux]

I suspected as much since our bodies are not fond of dying. Home remedies all have their drawbacks which is why euthanasia needs to become more accessible for more people.
Thanks for the info.

Now, don't try going around killing yourself or others! And please don't blame it on me!

[One Degree]

Now, don't try going around killing yourself or others! And please don't blame it on me!

No worries. I am stable. I always read everyone knows how they will commit suicide, but that does not hold true for me. Probably because I have seen enough of them to dismiss them. I definitely don't like the idea of leaving the mess of a violent suicide. Must be my feminine side.

[Frollein]

Actually I know people that tried to commit suicide by putting a gun to her mouth and the bullet deviated and ended up costing her an eye, most of her teeth, complete disfigurement of her face and some brain damage. She lived for many years after.

Well, there'll be always people who are too stupid to live and too stupid to die. I mean, the angle you need to hit your cerebellum, and the angle you need to hit your eye are quite different.

Some people...

[Rugoz]

Maybe it's time to start looking at the human race the same way we look at other species.

[Suntzu]

Yep, range capacity, eugenics and dysgenics comes immediately to mind.

[Sheepshank]

personal choice...should remain open, accessible and safe. Thank goodness I live so close to Oregon so that should I need help, it is only a stones throw away.

[Frollein]

Yeah, stoning will get the job done, too.