The Change in Western Politics - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14765488
Across the Western World, we have seen an onslaught of right-wing movements taking over. In America, Republicans control the top 5 levels of government. In Britain, the Conservatives are in charge and Brexit happened. In Europe, the EPP is in charge, and the only reason the left has a voice is of the Grand Coalition. In Australia, the Liberal-National coalition is in charge.

The only major domains where the left seems to be winning are Canada, France, Spain, and Italy. Even the Scandinavian socialist paradise of Sweden is jeopardized right now. Italy's PM lost its referendum as well, and Spain's recent elections had the conservative party take the lead. French socialists hold very tenuous control over parliament as well.

This is all after Democrats were saying in the recent American presidential election that Republicans were on the verge of falling into the dustbin of history.

This isn't what I really want to talk about though. Yes, we can talk about how a majority of union members outside of teacher unions voted for Trump. Yes, we can talk about how identity politics is falling apart. Yes, we can talk about how American Democrats corruptly tossed out Bernie, but now, they don't like how Wikileaks is probably associated with the Russians even though the CIA has a history of disinformation yet still expects to be taken for its word...

...and keep in mind this is the same CIA who President Madero of Venezuela says is interfering in his country's well being and provoked the people to vote for reformers, reformers who have received overwhelming support throughout Latin America in light of due process corruption...

...corruption which supported a socialist president who called his religious opponent a "faggot" in the presidential election that he won by the slimmest of questionable margins, behavior which is similar to how Duterte called Obama a whore.

All of this aside, there's something else that deserves to be talked about.

We are realizing a new age of politics here. For years, the right has been criticized for its properness behind property rights. It has been accused of being oppressive for insisting on morals, ethics, and standards. The recent tide of conservatism, however, doesn't follow this pattern at all.

We are witnessing the rise of dark conservatism. I don't call it alt-right or fascist thought because it really isn't. The alt-right is even being dismissed by many dark conservatives for making excuses and being lazy bums.

We are witnessing the rise of plain, basic, and simple bluntness overriding everything. It isn't racist, it isn't prejudiced, and it isn't discriminatory. It's just candid to the point of brutality. It's crude, vulgar, obtuse, nasty, and outright brash.

I say this especially with the rising influence of social media which has put political forums to shame. People can make one, two, and three-liners, and get hundreds, thousands, and sometimes tens-of-thousands of likes that influence people. They can flat out curse people out, call people names, mock and make fun of people with no regard, and it flies. This isn't some localist phenomenon at your neighborhood pub or bar. This is an international gathering of bluntness.

The previous era of politics blamed conservatism for pushing its values onto others, but those value-oriented people have disappeared. Even Ted Cruz was run over by Donald Trump. We are in the midst of true rugged individualism that blames the victim to pull oneself up by one's bootstraps.

As Trump said, "I unwound myself."

This is not an era of the rule of law and order. This is not an era of civic responsibility. This is not an era of people being held responsible for their actions.

This is an era of classic conservatism coming out of the woodwork, and telling people to deal with it. Conservatives before believed that inequality came from fate, and that liberals were whiners who didn't want to accept their status in life. Those conservatives are now hammering it to their opponents. The free will/rational choice/a priori reason right-wingers are no more.

The real question is how will the left respond? At best, the left seems to be targeting moderates, centrists, and independents to bully them into fitting in line, something which is making them lose more and more because those they target are either leaving politics or supporting the right.

Perhaps an even better question is, "Is the left being subverted by right-wingers who are making it look bad from the inside out to provoke people into joining its opposition?"
#14765516
Dubayoo wrote:
We are witnessing the rise of plain, basic, and simple bluntness overriding everything. It isn't racist, it isn't prejudiced, and it isn't discriminatory. It's just candid to the point of brutality. It's crude, vulgar, obtuse, nasty, and outright brash.


NO, it's an attempt to get some plain and simple standards back. It's the majority saying that we have had enough of pandering to the countries who don't have enough intelligence and wherewithal to look after themselves, rather to export a large percentage of their population to a country who will look after them. Yes, there may be an element of brutality behind the wishes of the majority, but the majority have had enough of wiping the arses of those who can't be bothered.

I am a believer in social capitalism, but my politics are focused on the inhabitants of the country in question, and not the populations of countries who are either incompetent or just corrupt. Trump wants to look after those who can, and those who want to but can't. He doesn't want to look after those who can't be bothered, and he certainly doesn't want to look after Mexico. The USA and the UK are powerful nations which have earned the stature and wealth they deserve, and they shouldn't be dragged down by other countries and the liberal wets who suck their blood !!
#14765542
This is a lazy response because it's a busy day today.

a) The right has been in charge for quite a long time now, the European Conservatives have been in charge for the past 15 years.
b) There is a shift to more far-right rhetoric indeed.
c) A sacrifice will probably be made to placate that rhetoric, whether that is homosexual marriage rights, immigration, transgender rights, labor rights or a combination remains to be seen, but that is the new faux battlefield while neo-liberal economics continue unabated.
#14765578
The United States is mainly conservative. The liberals are in the minority which is why they have been trying so hard to gain support with the young and the old. But the majority just do not like to change. The old-fashioned people do not like globalization, new technological developments like faster trains or more wind farms, and they are also the ones who do not want to do an overhaul of the power grid. They say, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

People are fickle so sometimes they give the liberals a chance. When the results are not as they wish, then they want to change back to the more conservative party. It is like a never-ending see-saw.

Few people understand that great change cannot happen over 4 or 8 years, it could take 10 or 20 years. There is so much that needs to be changed in the US but not much gets done because of the lack of understanding amongst the average-minded voters.
#14765583
There is so much that needs to be changed in the US but not much gets done because of the lack of understanding amongst the average-minded voters.


No, the role conservatives play is to prevent liberals from going too far down the wrong road. The average minded voter does not do harm. Self styled elites do damage. We need progressives to open our minds and we need conservatives to control the direction and/or speed. They are both valuable parts of a whole. That is what we are failing to see and is causing unnecessary division.
#14765896
No, the role conservatives play is to prevent liberals from going too far down the wrong road. The average minded voter does not do harm. Self styled elites do damage. We need progressives to open our minds and we need conservatives to control the direction and/or speed. They are both valuable parts of a whole. That is what we are failing to see and is causing unnecessary division.


My impression of the right is that they do not like math or science and all they know how to do is cut spending and cutting budgets and funding. How does that help? You are cutting into people's livelihoods, cutting into their salaries and wages, cutting into their grocery money and money for transportation and child care.

The right just opposes every single plan that the left can devise and propose. If they really understood how hard it is to draft up Obamacare and if they understand how it is helping people, they would not oppose it so damn much. How good are they at math? Most politicians are not good at math since studying politics is a liberal arts degree and therefore not a lot of math background is required. They should require political science majors to take business and accounting courses.
#14765906
@MistyTiger
I realized after I posted that I should have explained further, but decided to wait for a reply. Liberals made the mistake of bypassing conservatives which basically means local communities in the pursuit of their goals. Conservatives, in local communities, do hear your proposals but they must be adopted by their time and direction. Bypassing them, left out this check on liberal policies and guaranteed a violent readjustment. We are divided because the liberals cheated at the game. Change takes time. Trying to speed it up results in rebellion.
Trying to convince yourself that liberals are smarter that conservatives is an illusion. Your own lack of understanding created the problem. I think you would find it very difficult to divide the liberals and conservatives on this forum by intelligence.
Last edited by One Degree on 21 Jan 2017 15:40, edited 1 time in total.
#14765914
MistyTiger wrote:My impression of the right is that they do not like math or science and all they know how to do is cut spending and cutting budgets and funding. How does that help? You are cutting into people's livelihoods, cutting into their salaries and wages, cutting into their grocery money and money for transportation and child care.

The right just opposes every single plan that the left can devise and propose. If they really understood how hard it is to draft up Obamacare and if they understand how it is helping people, they would not oppose it so damn much. How good are they at math? Most politicians are not good at math since studying politics is a liberal arts degree and therefore not a lot of math background is required. They should require political science majors to take business and accounting courses.


I have to strongly disagree with this because in business, right-wingers are highly factual. They focus on the tried and true way of life while emphasizing learning from the experience of tradition instead of being openminded to alternate ways of life. In big business, this lends itself towards being considerate to science in order to figure out how to run departments in getting projects done. Today, they mock leftists for the value of equality, and if leftists become counter-confrontational, right-wingers laugh it off and say, "Bring it on you punk."

If anything, the right today has become religiously lapsed. You can even see here how many religious people vote Democratic instead of Republican: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -leanings/
#14766130
@One Degree

Are you assuming that businessmen tend to be rightists? If conservatives are so against globalization then how can they be forward-thinking entrepreneurs who predict the way of the future and they dedicate their resources and efforts towards creating a stake in the future?

I am not saying that liberals and conservatives have higher or lower IQs, just that some have a tendency towards more of the arts (like speaking or chairing events) and the liberals have a tendency to be better at calculating costs and helping the less fortunate. If we look at what the Bush dynasty did we can see that they only cut spending but did nothing to redirect funding or create new, beneficial programs based on a budget. During the Clinton administration and the Obama administration, we have seen improvements in the employment rate and less people have applied for unemployment benefits and Obama is perhaps the first president in awhile to deal with the healthcare system, who wants to touch that area...not many. And Obama introduced Extended medicaid but that might disappear very soon. Then who will help the disabled and the struggling individuals and families who are scraping by for reasons like they never got a college degree or they just cannot hold a permanent job?

Under whose leadership was it that gas prices were $1.33 a gallon? Clinton. When did it go up? Once Bush Jr came into office and it has not gone down since. Obama can be forgiven because he was focused on healthcare and education instead of oil.

Who wants to drive up oil prices? Republicans, right? Who hates the EPA due to their regulations? Conservatives. Who wanted to get rid of the ethics committee in Washington? Conservatives.

More and more businesses are being run by younger liberals who care about the environment, our carbon footprint, and they care about bringing the US into the future, not going backwards by being so reliant on coal and gas. The future is here and we cannot keep on running 20 mph when everyone else is running 200-300 mph, especially if we are talking trains. ;)
#14766235
@MistyTiger
Are you mistaking Dubayoo's post for mine?
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