Conservatives need to stop bitching so much - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14782247
This is completely false, obviously. If your parents give you money you didn't "earn" that money. You just took it.


Correct.

People who pass their wealth down to their children are givers.”


People who pass the country's wealth down to those who need it are just givers.
#14782248
ThankU4votingTrump wrote:Whiny liberals who live off of the government

lol, yea, so many live off of the government. You are aware that the states that take the most money are red, right? Whiny liberal California gives you more money.

The 10 states receiving the most in federal aid as a percentage of their general revenue, in order, were:

Mississippi, 42.9% federal aid as percentage of general revenue
Louisiana, 41.9%
Tennessee, 39.5%
South Dakota, 39.0%
Missouri, 38.2%
Montana, 37.4%
Georgia, 37.3%
New Mexico, 36.6%
Alabama, 36.1%
Maine, 35.3%
#14782275
Hindsite wrote:Infrastructure rebuilding is going to take mucho dinero and will not balance the budget, if that is what you want. However, eliminating certain regulations and getting rid of Obamacare and the illegals from Mexico will free some funds for the project. But to replace Obamacare with Paul RyanCare will save little if any,

Yes, it will be expensive, but the expense will be spread out over years. How well it goes depends on a couple of factors. Wages will be money dispersed amongst regular people, and will be returned to the various levels of government, passed to business for goods and services, invested and saved. But the genius snippet of Trump's plan is to buy as much of the material gear from America based and owned companies. I never hear the press talking about it but this is critical. It may cost you more, but in the end, it will be money saved.

Be careful cutting regulations. This 2 for 1 stuff is reckless, and over time, could be expensive. No body every created laws and regulations etc for sport.

As for balancing the budget, Obama cut deficit spending by a trillion dollars per annum, a savings in def. spending of nearly 75% over 8 years. Trump, the great businessman, ought to be able to continue it for four years.


I am for lowering corporate taxes to promote producing more good paying jobs, but against lowering the "fat cats" taxes.
And I say let those Hollywood elites and Professional Footballers that make millions a year pay more of their fair share of taxes per year.

I agree that raising the cap on Social Security and Medicare taxes is needed to help save it. But I would be shocked if we have a balanced budget this first year under a new President. It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, you can lower Corp taxes. Most of the big ones don't pay them, anyway. So where do you go for taxes? Taxpayers. Income tax, for sure. But also property tax, licences, tarrifs etc. Stuff everyone pays, which are burdensome to the poor, but merely pocket lint to the fat cats. Regular workers wages haven't changed much over the last 20 years. CEO'S make 300 times what regular workers earn. They are pretty much the only place to go for money.
#14782301
jehjeh3711 wrote:Not sure you can bitch about conservatives bitching when liberals are rioting, burning things in the streets, destroying property and pepper spraying people. So there's that.

Yes, the sweeping riots that have been plaguing the nation. They are everywhere! It is totally out of control! Aaaaaahhhhh!
#14782327
As of 24 Nov 2014, California and New York are the States with the most super rich people.
These are clearly Blue of democrat states, politically.


You posted it. Now what is it supposed to mean?

California sent 14 republicans to the house of representatives. New York sent 9 republicans. California gave us governor Schwarzenegger, Presidents Reagan and Nixon. New York gave us Trump, Roosevelt (T) and Arthur. About 1/3 of Republican presidents came from California and New York. Including the current one.
#14782370
[quote=7. Conservatism is not solely about money. It does not see government's sole responsibility as ensuring that the rich keep theirs anymore than it guarantees that the poor get more of it. quote]

I'm sure that the super-rich in America, just like in the U.K think that 'god' almighty ordained their 'rightful' position in society.

Maybe you know the hymn by the Irish poet-writer,Cecil Frances Alexander, " All things bright & beautiful. All creatures great & small"?

In verse; 3 we have,
3.
The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly,
And ordered their estate.

All things bright ...

This is exactly how the neo -riche 'cons' in the Tory Party think that the 'old' country should be run.
In any 'conservative' society, if you want to know what their TRUE values are, DON'T believe the rhetoric of their leaders, look at their deeds in the budgets, 'follow the money', you will find that it is directed at the rich & better off.

In the U.K, the TORIES justified cutting welfare, in order to cut the deficit, that tells you what & who they think of first.

These same people allow the rich & better off, to claim £40 BILLION a year in Additional Pension Contributions Relief, that's what our government give these people.
That 'relief' means that the government foregoes that amount in tax revenues, as those people's 'relief' is given the status of 'deferred income', that means that it cannot be taxed at that point.
It is supposed to be taxed when it is paid on 'retirement', at the marginal rate, two 'problems' arise from this, first, not only is that 'income' deferred, so too, is the tax liability, secondly, many of these people will move abroad on retirement, thus paying a reduced tax below what that marginal rate should be.

Another ruse the British government uses against those in need is, the, 'Buy-To-Let' racketeering scheme, that amounts to £26+BILLION a year.
Many, many 'private' tenants in these properties cannot afford the prohibitive rents charged, no matter, the TORIES have a very profitable ruse in the form of 'Housing Benefit', that means that these 'private' landlords buy the BTL properties, WITH TAXPAYER FUNDED MONEY, through the Housing Benefit Scheme.

The landlords repay the interest + capital through these guaranteed payments that come from taxpayer funded Housing Benefit, that ONLY benefits 'TORY' created & voting landlords.

Why people cannot see through this criminality or corruption is beyond me, were it a trade matter, the E.U or U.S would have something to say about it, as it is, the U.K is heading down the tubes with deeper national debt from these policies.

What worries me is, even the politicians are so accustomed to what they created in their policies, that they accept them unquestionably, believing them to be 'right', when look from outside of the box, they are quite simply scandalous, maybe it's time to get the 'honest' accountants in to explain the realities to these politicians.

The examples show the politics of self-interest that 'conservatives' engage in when serving those narrow interest, no matter the cost to the public purse.

They say that, for 'evil' to triumph, a 'good' man needs to do nothing, the 'Labour' Party is that man doing nothing.

I would bet that America has examples of 'pork barrel' politics serving party political interest at taxpayers expense.

Our 'democracies' are dying through the incestuous relationship of politicians with big business.

If our 'democracies' are to survive that incestuous corruption, we the people have to wrestle control from both politicians & their pocket lining friends in business.

It matters not what period in history it is, the 'Tories' are not about the 'aspirational' class, they are about preserving the position they believe they occupy, by making the needy people poorer, by taking away their rightful support from the state.

Alongside the theft of that support, they reduce the taxes of their own kind, they care nothing about who pays or suffers from these policies.
Take the policy of getting the disabled 'off welfare & into work'.
The 'TORY' government used the identical FASCIST principles of the NAZIS in implementing that policy.

They employed AMERICAN multi national companies as the 'agents' to 'save' money from the benefits from those claimants, which was then used to finance the contracts of the American companies, to line the pockets of those American companies at the direct expense of those in need.
There was no 'government financed policy' to implement 'welfare to work', it was those in state support that financed it through losing their support.
This is what the NAZIS did, they collected Jews, with others, in town squares, for 'deportation' to the extermination camps by railroad, the guards then collected money from those they were going to murder, so that these Jews PAID FOR THE JOURNEY TO THE EXTERMINATION CAMPS THAT EXISTED TO EXTERMINATE THEM, WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, how's that for cynicism?

The Tories are doing exactly that, but, just like the NAZIS, the TORIES are 'Cynics' of the first order.

If I were in charge of my country, I would purge it of corruption, starting with abolishing the tax breaks & 'reliefs' for the Tory supporting class.
I could save my country at least £100 BILLION a year, close the tax gap & make it really fair for all.
Last edited by Nonsense on 05 Mar 2017 17:49, edited 1 time in total.
#14782371
Agent Steel wrote:You gotta love how these self-entitled, spoiled conservatives like to thump their chests and act as though they are self made men who worked for everything they have. Many of them came from rich families. That alone proves that they are not self-made.


Half of union workers outside of teacher unions voted for Trump.

What are you talking about?

Conservatives don't complain. Their problem is they ignore other people's legitimate complaints.

In fact, America's most trusted institutions are the military, small business, police, and religion: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1597/confide ... tions.aspx

You might argue that these institutions serve conservative elites, but it's the conservative populace that occupies these institutions.

Agent Steel wrote:They were simply handed money from their parents. They didn't earn it. What gives them the right to judge others who get similar help from the government? Their hypocrisy is astounding, and they have a very self-entitled attitude in which they think the entire world revolves around them.

Unless you actually were born poor and worked your way up to riches, you have no grounds to condemn anyone else for accepting help or financial aid from the government. Here's a reality check for you delusional brats...You are nothing without the government. Roads, parks, buildings, schools, hospitals, police officers, fire fighters, armies, navies, air forces...they are all protecting and providing for your conceited, self-entitled ass while you ignorantly proclaim that you can make it all on your own, without any governmental assistance.

Some people get governmental aid. Get over it. Stop crying like a little baby because of it. Man up.


You do realize if you said this in real life that you'd be laughed at hysterically, right?

You're not helping to find a real solution to correct the problem with conservatism.

In fact, conservatives don't have a problem with paying taxes to provide for basic public services. It's libertarians who confuse republics with communes.

The problem with conservatism isn't their willingness to pay for public services. It's their attitude on how those services should be used. They neglect the forthcoming usage of services towards those who they don't like.
#14782376
[quote="Dubayoo"]Half of union workers outside of teacher unions voted for Trump.

What are you talking about?

Conservatives don't complain. Their problem is they ignore other people's legitimate complaints.

In fact, America's most trusted institutions are the military, small business, police, and religion: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1597/confide ... tions.aspx

As a non-American, I too find the above laughable, you do realise that 'religion' is just a 'business' don't you?
It is funny, how these 'spiritual' preachers come to be materially or financially super-rich, it's as though they are using their 'flocks'(LOL)to feather their nest rather nicely by all accounts.

Still, you can't take it with you, best to leave it or give it to the poor old minister down the road, LOL.

The above reminds me of the Catholic practice of 'relieving' the poor of their money, by saying, " you will not enter the kingdom of heaven, unless you pay the Roman Catholic Church money to get through the gates of heaven".

They called these payments, "indulgencies", which is\was alright, 'IF' you are on the receiving end of course, just like these rich 'ministers' in America.

FFS, when will people wake up, smell the coffee & dump 'religion' where it belongs in the dustbin of La La land.
Just Google 'rich or wealthy American religious leaders'.

The only trustworthy group you mention are the military or the police, but even there things are not perfect as they are there for reasons to do with what's wrong.
#14782415
Drlee wrote:I actually found this thread just as I was about to start one with a nearly identical title. Let me set some ground rules in addition to AS's excellent point.

Stop calling yourself a conservative if you really aren't. Consider:

...

So yes. Conservatives need to stop bitching so much. And if they are going to bitch at least try to bitch about conservative things. OK?

If there were conservative politicians like this, I would actually consider voting for them. The number one thing I don't like about the conservatives in power is that they will say anything for a dollar and will lie to people about caring about them. The hypocrisy about the 9/11 first responders and paying for services for our veterans pisses me off. Our country always wants to pay to kill people but don't want to pay for services to improve the life of the people that are alive. It's so backwards.
#14782423
Nonsense, you really didn't get what I wrote there at all.

My point wasn't to defend conservatives. It was to realize that your criticism is off the mark and doesn't do anything to solve their problems.

Heck, your remark about Catholics really doesn't make sense if you consider how Catholics predominantly vote liberal, not conservative: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -leanings/

Even around the world, the most left-wing countries are Catholic such as Italy, Spain, France, and Canada.
#14782453
There is nothing that says you had to earn the things you own with blood sweat and tears. My parents are worth around 2 million, much of that was inherited. One day I will inherit it and pass it down to my children. I have certainly earned my parents money more than some ghetto thug who doesn´t know how to pull his pants up.
#14782457
You did not earn anything by being lucky enough to drop from between the legs of a certain women, that is just chance. People earn things through work, something people who inherited wealth tend to be unfamiliar with.
#14782512
There is nothing that says you had to earn the things you own with blood sweat and tears. My parents are worth around 2 million, much of that was inherited. One day I will inherit it and pass it down to my children. I have certainly earned my parents money more than some ghetto thug who doesn´t know how to pull his pants up.


What Decky said.

And by the way. Did your parents teach you to be a racist dimwit in addition to your noble aspiration to come across as a spoiled dilettante?

Fuck. Do you have any idea how unintelligent you sound? There is nothing that points to real stupidity more than a racist tirade.

Here is the thing sport. There is a real world out there that you will never see. You will not look for it. You are not better than that "ghetto thug" you so quickly denigrate. Some day, when, or should I say if you grow up, you will realize that the world is a hard place. That people out there are playing the cards that they are dealt. Someday you will die. Nobody will care but everyone will show up for the reading of the will. Leave them a lot. Then, they may actually feign sorrow at your passing.

I have seen "ghetto thugs" perform unselfish acts of generosity that you could never imagine for the world. They are far better people than some racist trust fund baby.
#14782672
Donald wrote:"Conservatism" is rooted in the Enlightenment, particularly opposition to the revolutionary transformation of society, so naturally there is no static type of conservative despite the No-True Scotsmen that older conservatives like to prop up. That kind of homogeneity in principles and thought belongs to explicit traditionalists and conservatives are necessarily interested in a praxis and in the possibility of compromising.


The terms used, "liberal" "conservative" have also in a sense changed sides/meaning quite often as well and adding this is now "neo-liberalism" which is an entirely different ball game all together. Lol.


People like me could be considered liberal or conservative depending on how you look at it.
#14799433
Drlee wrote:What Decky said.

And by the way. Did your parents teach you to be a racist dimwit in addition to your noble aspiration to come across as a spoiled dilettante?

Fuck. Do you have any idea how unintelligent you sound? There is nothing that points to real stupidity more than a racist tirade.

Here is the thing sport. There is a real world out there that you will never see. You will not look for it. You are not better than that "ghetto thug" you so quickly denigrate. Some day, when, or should I say if you grow up, you will realize that the world is a hard place. That people out there are playing the cards that they are dealt. Someday you will die. Nobody will care but everyone will show up for the reading of the will. Leave them a lot. Then, they may actually feign sorrow at your passing.

I have seen "ghetto thugs" perform unselfish acts of generosity that you could never imagine for the world. They are far better people than some racist trust fund baby.

Why is it you bottom feeding liberals think that calling intelligent conservatives racist is going to win you a debate?
#14799437
I most certainly did not call an 'intelligent' conservative a racist.

And I am a lifelong conservative republican.
#14799462
There is one major fallacy in this topic.

Okay, there are several, but I'll only address one.

Inherited property was given freely by those that earned it. Sure, they didn't have the option to take it with them to the grave (or did they?). They did have the option of spending it before death, or giving it away before death, or choosing a different benefactor. Given the constraints of the situation, it was freely given.

Those who receive alms from the government are receiving money that was taken away from those who earned it by force.

This is a big difference.

Now, if there are "conservatives" out there who "bitch" about charities that operate on free private donations, OP might have a case. As it stands, he doesn't.

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