Why Liberals Really Hate Russia - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14782647
Godstud wrote:Yeah, you're right. He's so innocent..


To be fair, death awaits only the lowly opposition. More prominent opponents like Alexej Nawalny are being eliminated by the courts.

The Immortal Goon wrote:People always like to talk real tough about the working class until they need something built or fixed.


If find communist "obsession" with manual labor to be rather silly.

Balancer wrote:Apprx. Pluses for Putin:

- Ones of little-known and unpopular oppositionists will cease to criticize Putin.

Minuses for Putin:

- Thousands of oppositionists will begin to shout that they in Russia kill opposition. All Western media snatches on Putin, accusing him in murders and calling the tyrant.

You consider that the first alters the second? Then you have very alternative logic :)


You completely miss the point. Political opposition must be eliminated early, when it is little-known and poses no threat. What the Western media say is hardly relevant for Putin anyway.
#14782659
Zionist Nationalist wrote:the only good things were the education healthcare and the ability to find a job easily but if you would talk against the ruling party you could get at best a simple workers job at some shitty factory in Siberia


If it is the choice between unemployment and living on the streets of London or Birmingham with criminals and drug addicts, or having an apartment in Chita with a salary, bed and food every day, the choice is obvious.

And the Soviet Union could have dealt with this problem if it had allowed free enterprise to exist alongside the state system. Instead Gorbachev introduced strange reforms that shook the entire country to pieces.

Consumer goods could have become available if agriculture was privatised. I am not a communist but I think some sort of hybrid system that allows for free market enterprise with state planning would be the best. It would be something like half way between the Soviet Union and Scandinavian social democracy.
#14782662
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:Is that it? What you like about Russia is your current ability to be bigoted against some group?


It isn't pleasant to me when some small group gets an advantage before others only because of accessory to this group.

Answer fairly if in the American firm there are two employees, absolutely identical on working qualities, but one will be the white heterosexy man, and the second — the black lesbian. Than whom is the probability higher that will dismiss?
#14782665
Rugoz wrote:To be fair, death awaits only the lowly opposition.


If you are honest, then have to recognize that the death not of oppositional politicians of a low rank in the West at all is interesting to nobody and therefore is never lit in media. And they perish every year in tens, as well as any other people. In Russia (car accidents, accidents, diseases, poisonings, murders) about 150 thousand people perish every year. Let's assume that in the country 100 thousand people go in for active policy. Then among them at an equal distribution in a year perishes the unnatural death of 100 people. Let's assume that political opposition in Russia — 10%. Then every year in Russia perishes the unnatural death of 10 oppositionists without any intervention of Putin. Abstract mathematics. Really in the USA politicians don't perish?

Rugoz wrote:More prominent opponents like Alexej Nawalny are being eliminated by the courts.


And except Navalny many dozens of other corrupt officials also are put on trial. But not oppositional. About them write in the west of nothing? :)

Rugoz wrote:You completely miss the point. Political opposition must be eliminated early, when it is little-known and poses no threat. What the Western media say is hardly relevant for Putin anyway.


You completely miss an essence.

1. Similar dull execution if this work of Putin, only strengthens influence of opposition.

2. How the opposition in Russia behaves in recent years, in itself eliminates her supporters much more actively, than any actions of the power.
#14782670
Balancer wrote:Really in the USA politicians don't perish?


Do you actually read the stuff people post?

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/ar ... urnalists/

Reporters killed

Combining data from two nonprofits that records violations of press rights (the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists and the Moscow-based Glasnost Defense Foundation), we found that at least 34 journalists have been murdered in Russia since 2000.

(This tally only includes deaths confirmed or likely to be work-related homicides committed in Russia. It doesn’t include murders where the motives are unclear, or journalists killed in war and on other dangerous assignments, like covering the mob or riots.)

For comparison, in the same time period, two journalists were murdered in China, while three were killed in the United States (including the on-air deaths of two television reporters in Virginia this year).

Nina Ognianova, the coordinator for the Committee to Protect Journalists’ Europe and Central Asia program, said journalists covering corruption, human rights abuses, organized crime, and official wrongdoing can be "slain with impunity in Putin’s Russia."

"Their killers are emboldened to act by an administration that marginalizes them, isolates them, and downplays their role in society," she said.

Of the 34 killings in Russia, many of the suspected perpetrators are military officials, government officials or political groups. The vast majority of cases remain unsolved. Here’s a breakdown:

Just one case over the past 15 years was fully adjudicated.


Balancer wrote:And except Navalny many dozens of other corrupt officials also are put on trial. But not oppositional. About them write in the west of nothing? :)


How is that even relevant? The ECHR ruled that Navalny's trial is politically motivated. I trust them more than some brainwashed Russian on Pofo.

Balancer wrote:You completely miss an essence.

1. Similar dull execution if this work of Putin, only strengthens influence of opposition.

2. How the opposition in Russia behaves in recent years, in itself eliminates her supporters much more actively, than any actions of the power.


1. Why? Russians obviously do not believe Putin is responsible, you included. Yet the fear to be murdered exists and makes journalists shut up. Looks like a successful strategy to me.

2. Yeah I'm sure the opposition is depicted in a very positive light in the Russian media. :lol:
#14782681
Rugoz wrote:Do you actually read the stuff people post?


You, really, don't read what I write you?

we found that at least 34 journalists have been murdered in Russia since 2000.


Now in Russia kill 15 thousand people a year. Earlier — there was more. For example, in 2001 33 thousand people have been killed. Let's consider on average during 25 thousand people a year. 400000 killed in 16 years. In Russia about 100000 journalists. Thus, if journalists are killed also as simple people, then them in a year 17 people perish. In 16 years — 275 people. Again — abstract mathematics without any policy.

Actually it is still worse without any policy. The famous journalists often are engaged, for example, in criminal investigations. And therefore mortality among this class is even higher, than among ordinary people. Again — without any policy. One statistics.

How many journalists have died in the USA in 16 years?

Rugoz wrote:How is that even relevant? The ECHR ruled that Navalny's trial is politically motivated.

The political motivation doesn't designate innocence of the person under investigation.



Oops. You can't communicate without insults of the interlocutor too? Then I don't see sense to continue, to me reaped to spend time for the next boor who instead of arguments becomes personal?
#14782701
The real reason the Liberals hate Russia is that they lost this very important election to a business man, when they thought they had it in the bag. The Liberals are very angry because they are afraid they may lose the liberal gains they have made under Obama. They can't except the real reason they lost, so they must pass the blame away from themselves. Therefore, it must have been wikiLeaks and the Russians. They already hated Trump, but they could not admit that Trump beat them on his own so they also began blaming the Russians in collusion with Trump. You know, haters got to hate.
#14782704
Hindsite wrote:The real reason the Liberals hate Russia is that they lost this very important election to a business man, when they thought they had it in the bag.


It to you is even simpler, you can find the enemy in other country. Present how hard is to the Russian liberals :) They constantly suffer a defeat because voters don't see for liberals of constructivism (and someone and just loves "a firm hand of the governor" — so easy not to get rid of thousand-year traditions). As if liberals accused the government of deception on elections, they can't deceive themselves. To understand who is chosen by the people, is enough to go outside. And they begin to tell (not the exaggeration, is literal quotes) absolutely idiotic things. "Russia — the country good. But in her there live the bad people". Or "It is impossible to trust elections of the government to stupid cattle". And then loudly are surprised why it "the stupid cattle" doesn't vote for the Russian liberals :)

Especially crushing blow to all liberal opposition was struck 2014 and 2015. Olympic Games, return of the Crimea, 70 anniversary of a victory in the Great Patriotic War (WW2). All this has very strongly rallied people and has lifted the rating of the government on ultraboundary heights. And opposition, without having managed to be reconstructed, continued to promise to destroy everything that the people perceived as achievement.

And today disappeared normal opposition in Russia. Completely. And it is very sad because in power there has to be an opposition as monopolism — it is always bad. How Putin as the president was good for Russia today, but there have to be counterbalances. Besides, Putin grows old and is mortal. And he doesn't have the successor in policy now.
#14782712
Balancer wrote:It isn't pleasant to me when some small group gets an advantage before others only because of accessory to this group.

Answer fairly if in the American firm there are two employees, absolutely identical on working qualities, but one will be the white heterosexy man, and the second — the black lesbian. Than whom is the probability higher that will dismiss?

This is a hypothetical situation, because people are never "absolutely identical on working qualities". And I'm not American. if you can give a 'probability', I think it would depend on the state. Many states, I believe, have "fire without reason" laws, and in those cases, it would be an equal probability with an unbigoted employer, and a higher chance of the black lesbian being fired by a bigoted one. Statistics shows that women still get paid less for equivalent jobs, and non-white people find it harder to get job interviews,so the overall disadvantaged group in the USA would be the ones the black lesbian belong to.
#14782715
Balancer wrote:How many journalists have died in the USA in 16 years?


Jesus it's in the bloody text. 3 have been killed.

The murder rate in the US is half that of Russia (which is meaningless anyway since journalists are not your typical criminals).

Moreover it's a question of whether those murders were being solved and what the motivation was, again, read the text.

Balancer wrote:Oops. You can't communicate without insults of the interlocutor too? Then I don't see sense to continue, to me reaped to spend time for the next boor who instead of arguments becomes personal?


This is incomprehensible.

Balancer wrote:The political motivation doesn't designate innocence of the person under investigation.


Wtf? :lol:

All right, here's the ruling, in legal writing:

The case concerned the complaint by an opposition activist and a businessman that the criminal
proceedings leading to their conviction for embezzlement had been arbitrary and unfair, and based
on an unforeseeable application of criminal law.

The Court found that the conviction of the applicants’ co-accused in separate accelerated
proceedings had deprived the applicants of basic guarantees of a fair trial. In particular, the trial
court convicting the co-accused had worded its judgment in a manner that could only be considered
prejudicial as regards the applicants’ alleged involvement in the crime. Moreover, the Russian courts
had found the applicants guilty of acts indistinguishable from regular commercial activities. In other
words, the criminal law had been arbitrarily construed to the applicants’ detriment. Finally, the
Russian courts had failed to address Mr Navalnyy’s arguable allegation that the reasons for his
prosecution were his political activities.


You wouldn't smell shit if I would rub it into your face.
#14782753
Zionist Nationalist wrote:
and as I said before you are getting paid for your level of responsibility and a worker have very minimal responsibility. he is mostly getting orders what to do.
should a bus driver get paid more than a Boeing pilot only because he works all day while the pilot 98% of the time is using autopilot?
Decky wrote:To be honest those are both sitting down jobs so I would rate them about equally.
Zionist Nationalist wrote:anybody can be a construction worker this is a job that requires no skills at all.
while an engineer needs to study and he also got a much greater responsibility, because it would be his fault if the building going to collapse
Decky wrote:
It sounds fair to this construction worker.

We have to work hard, outdoors in all weathers, in physical danger doing work that even if you don't have an accident will take years off your life due to occupational diseases. Even when you retire your body tends to be so fucked up you can't really enjoy it. My granddad couldn't climb his own stairs (lots of damage to his knees from work) not long after he finished working as an electrician which he had done from the age of 14 for his whole working life apart from when he had to join the army.

What do engineers do? I imagine it involves a lot of sitting at desks indoors in rooms with radiators and fiddling with calculators and tugging themselves off and watching pretty secretaries walking past. If I had such a job I would think myself lucky to be getting paid at all for it never mind how much. :lol:


One is salary work and one is hourly work. But both are billed through invoices that the Accounting Department will handle. Construction workers usually work long hours and often they work weekends and possibly night shifts so if you do all the calculations, the pay for an engineer and construction worker comes out to roughly the same amount. The math involved is just multiplying the rate of pay and the hours worked.
#14782758
Potemkin wrote:This is what I've been saying for years. Russia's fate in the 1990s was a terrible glimpse into our own future. When Communism collapsed in 1991, it gave the ruling elite of the West the perfect laboratory in which to experiment. They were able to impose free market capitalism on steroids onto the Russian people, with (for me, predictably) catastrophic social and political consequences. I knew even back then that our turn would come soon.

The reason the Western elite now hate Russia so profoundly is because by electing Putin, and by keeping on electing him, the Russian people have signalled their complete rejection of the ultra-liberal model of society and of economics which was imposed upon them by the West after the Cold War. The Russians, after all, turned out not to be completely fucking retarded. The best hope for the future is the fact that our ruling elite don't seem to be able to think dialectically - they keep trying to ride reality like a bronco, and reality keeps bucking them off. This seems to puzzle them. Lol. :lol:


"The Russians, after all, turned out not to be completely fucking retarded".

I agree totally, that distinction belongs to the British public, the most timid, feeble, retarded specimens on planet earth .
The Russian people are far and away much smarter & sophisticated that they make Americans look pretty stupid.
#14782847
In many animal species, much of the animal's energy is dedicated towards killing off other members of its own species who possess greater reproductive fitness. It should be easy to see how communism is an extreme manifestation of this in human beings, even according to its own dialectic; they just call it class warfare and a dictatorship of the lower classes. If left unchecked, it can turn entire countries (like Cambodia) into a black hole of human failure.

To be fair, even this instinct can probably serve a useful purpose in some cases but like most things, there's a time and a place when it is appropriate and like many things, it's usually not.
#14782858
To elaborate, communism is in my opinion mostly bad but it also does things a reactionary like me would be okay with, such as putting drug addicts into forced labor camps and generally removing the most extreme leeches from society. The west suppressed a stage of its own macro-evolutionary process and in doing so, it avoided the good things as well as the bad things. SJWs are overly refined human beings who have crossed the line into genetic defectiveness; drug addicts are on the other extreme of the spectrum and it makes sense to me that these groups have merged together since they have in common their refusal to put in the effort necessary to become balanced human beings.

It's counter-intuitive because communists infamously tend to go off the deep end, killing useful people like doctors and priests, but they would have also killed off the SJWs and drug addicts and in doing so, probably preserved western white people as a distinct group.
#14782894
Hindsite wrote:The real reason the Liberals hate Russia is that they lost this very important election to a business man, when they thought they had it in the bag. The Liberals are very angry because they are afraid they may lose the liberal gains they have made under Obama. They can't except the real reason they lost, so they must pass the blame away from themselves. Therefore, it must have been wikiLeaks and the Russians. They already hated Trump, but they could not admit that Trump beat them on his own so they also began blaming the Russians in collusion with Trump. You know, haters got to hate.

Yea, where did liberals get the idea from.

[youtube]gNa2B5zHfbQ[/youtube]

That is basically schizophrenic.
#14782902
Trump is entertaining the audience.
Can't you guys recognize a joke?
You guys seem beyond help.
I can only pray for you and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
HalleluYah.
#14782905
Hindsite wrote:Can't you guys recognize a joke?

Yes, it is called the Trump Administration. And the people who believe him. It would be a better joke if it wasn't going to ruin lives.

Flynn, Sessions... just the tip of the iceberg of lies. You lot wave off even having an investigation.

Image

It is reminiscent of what's-his-name from Iraq's "nothing to see here", only on a far more insane scale.

Image
#14782908
Zagadka wrote:
Flynn, Sessions... just the tip of the iceberg of lies. You lot wave off even having an investigation.


You liberals completely ignore all the lies coming out of the mouth of Obama, the Liar-in-Chief.
I call that hypocracy.
#14782910
I just noticed you used a quote from 2008. That was 8 or 9 years ago.

Dunno, I don't have Trump's business outlines, but having a "disproportionate" support from Russia 8 years ago, do you think Trump was entirely divested of them in 2016?

Would be nice if we had, like, and investigation, or tax documents or something. How great Trump is in what you criticized Obama for in lacking transparency.

Hindsite wrote:You liberals completely ignore all the lies coming out of the mouth of Obama, the Liar-in-Chief.
I call that hypocracy.

Nice attempt at deflection.

What Obama said or didn't say is irrelevant. Honesty isn't scored on a curve. There is enough room for both Trump and Obama to be liars.

The thing now, is that one of those guys is the President who will be leading the country for the next 4 years, which we can do something about.

But onto things that are actually relevant.

Benghazi had "7 investigations, 13 hearings, 50 briefings, and 25,000 pages of documents"... and came up with nothing.

How can you not even stand one investigation? You would be so hard up to investigate Obama or Hillary on either just Flynn or Sessions you'd spray the underside of your desk with blood. THAT is hypocrisy.

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