Is intersex a disorder? Is being transgender a mental illness? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14791681
Zagadka wrote:I've had several trans friends. Some of them were literally suicidal before being able to make the final decision to come out, which frequently comes at the cost of the majority of family and friends. It isn't something that can be reasoned or conditioned out or something with other solutions.


Sorry my friend, they just need to pull themselves together
#14791684
Know It All wrote:Sorry my friend, they just need to pull themselves together

Says someone with no personal experience.

A lot of trans people get to the point of suicide before deciding on the major life change that they need, even though it can destroy their entire life.
#14791713
Rugoz wrote:Transgender people don't hurt anyone with their behavior and whether they want a cure or not is really their business and not yours.

I think they do. I think they're an attention suck that distracts from far more significant social problems. They are fouling our legislatures, courts and media with issues that are irrelevant to 99% of the population. I'd rather they just cloister themselves in a little sub-culture and leave the rest of us alone.

Kaiserschmarrn wrote:It is an issue because by normalising it and trying to make it taboo to even think about these conditions as a disorder slows down or potentially even prevents us from coming up with effective treatments or cures.

It can't be fixed, so they are trying to argue that the misery of their outlier existence is because they are not "accepted" as "normal." However, by definition they are not normal. They are "abnormal," "deviant" or "outlier" by definition.

Know it all wrote:It's the political correct thing to do to believe that gay/lesbian/transsexual people etc are perfectly natural. Well of course they are, but so are pedophiles.

And racists. Racism is innate and is part of Darwinian sexual selection. We study social preference behavior in other species all the time. However, it becomes moralized and made wrong when we study it in human beings. Desegregation was a success legally, but socially the notion of integration was a colossal failure. Blacks generally don't like to hang out with whites socially. They create their own sub-cultures, music genres, fashions, etc. There is simply no changing that. Trying to get people to embrace multi-culturalism is the same problem. Not everybody wants to be exposed to people unlike themselves. I know a number of gay people, but I don't associate with any of them, and that is a mutual preference.

Know it all wrote:The difference is that society has chosen to accept certain perversions, but not others.

Well, certain segments in the media/propaganda apparatus and the government have chosen, and presumed to choose for all of us. That is why people hate the Paul Ryans and Chuck Schumers of the world more than they hate minorities or freaks.

Know it all wrote:What annoys me is liberals normalizing something that is not normal

Well to a larger extent what they've succeeded in doing is rendering themselves abnormal, and they innoculate themselves from shame by making themselves feel like they are superior to others while simultaneously and non-intuitively championing equality. Then, they are puzzled at the election of someone like Donald Trump--a guy who likes hot women.

Kaiserschmarrn wrote:When I talk about treatment/cure I'm not referring to surgery (the efficacy of which has yet to be shown), but either preventing the condition from arising in the first place or treating the erroneous conviction.

Indeed. This has more to do with people in the medical industry whoring themselves out to social movements to make a buck and then trying to throw a veneer of "science" on whatever their latest huckster routine might be.

Kaiserschmarrn wrote:In Australia a court has recently allowed a 16 year old to remove her breasts and the more we advance the normalisation of this condition, the less authorities, physicians and society at large will have concerns about "catching them early".

As I've said repeatedly, this is because there is more money to be made by the medical scam in not solving problems than solving them. Think of how many PET scans doctors do after they've discovered someone has cancer rather than before hand. Drugs that cure disease do not make as much money as drugs that treat symptoms. So if you've got a great Hepatitis C drug that cures the disease, that's not so good for your stock price.

Kaiserschmarrn wrote:The correct way to look at this, in my view, is that some biological processes go wrong and lead to pathological behaviours and ideas.

Exactly. The danger is that science gets perverted, because the medical profession isn't dedicated to treating people. If you considered a rat-maze experiment and viewed doctors as rats dispensing treats to themselves, you've got a pretty good picture of what the healthcare system has become. Asking everybody to consider transgendered people as normal is like asking everyone to pretend that people with Down Syndrome are great at abstract math, or that autistics are very sociable. The media goes along with this, because the government pays them to do so. They end up feeling superior, because they make oodles of cash shilling government propaganda.

AFAIK wrote:The correct way to look at this, in my view, is that some biological processes go wrong and lead to pathological behaviours and ideas.

Maybe that's what these medical freaks are doing: it's a back door eugenics program.

Thompson_NCL wrote:No, you cannot. You can't change chromosomes, bone structure, muscle density etc. At best you can stick some artificial breasts onto a man, mutilate his genitals and stick him in a dress. That does not a woman make.

I don't want to get too far off topic, but I think transgender is probably a mental illness derived from a congenital defect to develop cis-gendered biologically. What's closer to a mental illness is the modern left. What the left wants is a world without people like Mark Dice laughing at them, but Mark Dice is pointing out stuff that puts the current left in juxtaposition to the recent left.

Man Wins Women's Weightlifting Competition
So how do you square the circle with this sort of thing? Men are stronger than women, so we need to create Title IX. Then, a man decides he's a woman, must be accepted, and wins the medal? One chick runner up is bummed, the other realizes how ridiculous our society has become. But if you can just arbitrarily change your gender, why can't you arbitrarily change your age or your race? People have plastic surgery all the time to look younger. Can Suzanne Sommers come out of the closet as 35 instead of 70+? Can I get admitted to Harvard as a minority and then get SBA small business loans, because I've decided I'm black and I'm really getting jiggy with it even though I'm as white as the wind-driven snow?

Even Bill O'Reilly is having trouble pretending anymore: Bill O'Reilly Mocks Congresswoman Maxine Waters "James Brown Wig" Maxine Waters responded by saying she "would not be intimidated." Bill O'Reilly laughed at her wig (can we acknowledge that black people wear wigs a lot?). He didn't intimidate her.

Cultural marxism has jumped the shark here...
#14791733
blackjack21 wrote:I don't want to get too far off topic, but I think transgender is probably a mental illness derived from a congenital defect to develop cis-gendered biologically. What's closer to a mental illness is the modern left. What the left wants is a world without people like Mark Dice laughing at them, but .


Well there is probably a biological origin to many forms of mental illness. Those suffering from anorexia for example have shown different brain activity to that of a healthy person. I don't think this changes anything. They are not a woman trapped in a man's body, they are men with mental illness. They need help coming to terms with being men, not the butchers knife and bolt-ons.
#14791742
Pants-of-dog wrote:If it is a mental illness, then we should use taxpayer funds to oay for the treatment, and the most effective treatment seems to be sex reassignment surgery.


Well we do use taxpayers money for it in the UK, but I don't agree with sex reassignment surgery. That said, I am willing to tolerate it as long as there is no expectation that society pretend these people have actually changed sex.
#14791744
Thompson_NCL wrote:Well we do use taxpayers money for it in the UK, but I don't agree with sex reassignment surgery. That said, I am willing to tolerate it as long as there is no expectation that society pretend these people have actually changed sex.


Your feelings about sex reasignment surgery are not relevant. What is relevant is the opinions of medical professionals and studies that determine effectiveness.

And there is no expectation that you "pretend" anything. But it makes sense to assume that transphobia will go the way of homophobia and aoon woll be considered rude and discriminatory. So, feel free to say transphobic things, but be prepared for consequences such as losing your job.
#14791745
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your feelings about sex reasignment surgery are not relevant. What is relevant is the opinions of medical professionals and studies that determine effectiveness.


Not relevant to what? :eh: My opinions matter to me and influence my choices in every day life, which in turn impact those around me. To suggest they are not relevant is idiotic. Perhaps they are not relevant to you, but then here you are arguing against them. So what exactly is your point?

And there is no expectation that you "pretend" anything. But it makes sense to assume that transphobia will go the way of homophobia and aoon woll be considered rude and discriminatory. So, feel free to say transphobic things, but be prepared for consequences such as losing your job.


Someone hasn't stuck his head outside for a while I see. Have you not noticed the shift in the direction of the wind? It's not my views that will "soon be considered rude and discriminatory" but yours.
#14791756
Thompson_NCL wrote:Not relevant to what? :eh: My opinions matter to me and influence my choices in every day life, which in turn impact those around me. To suggest they are not relevant is idiotic. Perhaps they are not relevant to you, but then here you are arguing against them. So what exactly is your point?


They are not relevant to the discussion, which is why I am not arguingnagainst them. I am just pointingnout their irrelevancy.

Someone hasn't stuck his head outside for a while I see. Have you not noticed the shift in the direction of the wind? It's not my views that will "soon be considered rude and discriminatory" but yours.


Openly supporting trans people, like being trans, has already been seen as wrong and weird. I am used to the traditional and bigoted view of trans people. I will be fine. And I highly doubt that trans people will sit idly by and allow transphobic peole to drag us back a few decades to a time when we were more bigoted.
#14791897
Intersex people are born with sexual characteristics that do not conform to the binary of male or female bodies. Transgender people feel their gender identity does not match their biological sex. The two conditions are not at all the same and grouping the two under the same umbrella is irresponsible and confusing, and leads to intersex erasure or transgender appropriation of intersex people's lived experiences.

I find transgender person's description of being trans incoherent. They often speak of "being born in the wrong body" which presupposes a kind of naive dualism of mind-body separation which is left unexplained [how can you be born in the wrong body when you are your body?], whilst also asserting that the mind can be unambiguously gendered, but isn't gender identity a social construct? If they mean to say that the mind is sexed, then how can that be since the mind is nonbiological? I've also seen transgender people appropriate other cultures' views on gender roles such as the Native Americans or the Fa'afafine.

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