Should the Separation of Church and State Apply to Irrational, Religiously-held Liberal Beliefs? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14798561
Solar Cross understood what I was trying to say. I would go so far as to add that if the separation of church and state didn't exist, we might have seen actual officiated religions of leftism in the west because to many of them it is a religion in everything but name, so why did they stay away from naming it a religion and officiating it? I suspect people didn't put much effort into that because they knew it would be a legal minefield more than anything else.

All of these "the Old Testament shouldn't be in the Bible" people could have just made a derivative of Christianity that is liberalism + liberal arts Jesus and it would have probably been great for them.
#14799355
Hong Wu wrote:Solar Cross understood what I was trying to say. I would go so far as to add that if the separation of church and state didn't exist, we might have seen actual officiated religions of leftism in the west because to many of them it is a religion in everything but name, so why did they stay away from naming it a religion and officiating it? I suspect people didn't put much effort into that because they knew it would be a legal minefield more than anything else.

All of these "the Old Testament shouldn't be in the Bible" people could have just made a derivative of Christianity that is liberalism + liberal arts Jesus and it would have probably been great for them.


Yeah there is something in that. There was more than just the 1st amendment blocking them from just making a "derivative of Christianity that is liberalism + liberal arts Jesus" though but first I think it would do to spell out who "they" are. They are the people who in other centuries would have taken divinities and become a pastor, priest, rabbi or brahmin.

In those centuries they could make a nice position for themselves as community leaders, enjoy some status and even wealth without having do much except remind everyone that they held the keys to heaven. Sometimes they could even get kings to do their bidding. They had it good, they had it really good.

Then science happened. Well proto-science had been around since the some apeman figured out how to make fire but until say Galileo and then Darwin, proto-science was no serious threat to them. From Galileo to Darwin a seismic shift began, as the merchants and warriors increasingly fell out from the spell of the religionists and declared for science and secularism instead. From Darwin onwards the shift was all but complete and the worse thing is they, these people of priestly mind, knew it would never swing back in their favour, their gods were actually dead, killed by science and by association killed by the merchants and warriors who had consequently dumped the priests as their spiritual gurus.

From Darwin onwards it just gets worse and worse, the warriors and merchants make science sing delivering real world miracles, from atom bombs to auto-mobiles, miracles likes of which no priest could ever hold a candle to.. They were outclassed and humiliated by people that they had hitherto liked to consider their inferiors.

So what happens to a priestly mind that can't be a priest because such a thing is ridiculous in the Age of Science? He will try to adapt, to fight back, he will concoct and espouse a pseudo-religion that is sufficiently lacking in supernatural decor to pass as compatible with science but which serves as a proxy for the full blooded religion he could have wielded before Science: socialism, communism, anarchism, left-liberalism, gender theory, all are meme-ological weapons crafted to thrive in a post-supernatural world for regaining control from (and also for punishing) the merchants and warriors whom had betrayed them for science.

Priests are mind hackers, that is their power, their only power, and they aren't going to give up that power just because the supernatural was denied them.
Last edited by SolarCross on 22 Apr 2017 15:01, edited 1 time in total.
#14799360
Oh for fuck's sake...

This has been worse than a complete misunderstanding of the First Amendment? This has been a conspiracy theory leading to a secret understanding of the First Amendment applied for secret reasons by secret people against secret people?

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#14799367
So what happens to a priestly mind that can't be a priest because such a thing is ridiculous in the Age of Science?



Well this relies on facts not in evidence. Why do you think priests are "rediculous in the age of science"? What is obvious is that you do not understand faith and have no clue about what clergy do.

He will try to adapt, to fight back, he will concoct and espouse a pseudo-religion that is sufficiently lacking in supernatural decor to pass as compatible with science but which serves as a proxy for the full blooded religion he could have wielded before Science: socialism, communism, anarchism, left-liberalism, gender theory, all are meme-ological weapons crafted to thrive in a post-supernatural world for regaining control from (and also for punishing) the merchants and warriors whom had betrayed them for science.


Pseudo intellectual claptrap. You think you sound smart. You do not.

Priests are mind hackers, that is their power, their only power, and they aren't going to give up that power just because the supernatural was denied them.


Another nonsensical notion. Really son. This is pofo. We do not assume you have a point just because you string buzz words together. :roll:
#14800078
Pants-of-dog wrote:Priests as mind hackers is one of the themes of an early Neal Stephenson novel, Snow Crash. Good read.

Please note that it is a work of fiction


I haven't read it but from googling I think the mind hacking in the book is more literal than metaphorical. When I say religionists are mind hackers I mean it as a metaphor.

Priests create narratives for exploiting the foibles of human psychology not unlike how computer hackers create viruses and other devices to exploit the foibles of Information technology. The obvious and probably most useful foible of human psychology which the religionists exploit is the fear of death. To manipulate people using this emotional lever they create an after life which solves the fear of death but with conditions set by the priest.

After the scientists destroyed the cosmology of the religionists the new religionists have to craft religions with the barest minimum of supernatural devices. This has also meant they had to give up the after-life device which exploits the fear of death. The new secular religions (communism, anarchism, fascism etc) then have to exploit with their narratives other aspects of human psychology such as envy and the revenge dynamic. These are weaker than the fear of death exploit though hence why the new religions are generally weaker and do not last long comparatively before their power to influence diminishes. Christianity is considerably older than communism but communism is already well past its prime while Christianity still lingers on. Christianity is powered by the strong force that is the fear of death while communism is powered only by the much weaker force of envy.
#14800082
Even if we are to accept your conspiracy theory, the First Amendment is about the state keeping out of religion's way as much as religion keeps out of the state's way.

What you propose is tantimont to saying, "Jews can no longer serve in government functions," or whatever. And the First Amendment prevents that, not acts as a tool to do so.

But beyond that, your brand of liberalism--whatever you want to dress it up as--is just as much of a "religion," as any other political ideology like communism. I suspect you know this, you just think it's really edgy to look so ignorant on the internet :lol:
#14800091
SolarCross wrote:I haven't read it but from googling I think the mind hacking in the book is more literal than metaphorical. When I say religionists are mind hackers I mean it as a metaphor.

Priests create narratives for exploiting the foibles of human psychology not unlike how computer hackers create viruses and other devices to exploit the foibles of Information technology. The obvious and probably most useful foible of human psychology which the religionists exploit is the fear of death. To manipulate people using this emotional lever they create an after life which solves the fear of death but with conditions set by the priest.

After the scientists destroyed the cosmology of the religionists the new religionists have to craft religions with the barest minimum of supernatural devices. This has also meant they had to give up the after-life device which exploits the fear of death. The new secular religions (communism, anarchism, fascism etc) then have to exploit with their narratives other aspects of human psychology such as envy and the revenge dynamic. These are weaker than the fear of death exploit though hence why the new religions are generally weaker and do not last long comparatively before their power to influence diminishes. Christianity is considerably older than communism but communism is already well past its prime while Christianity still lingers on. Christianity is powered by the strong force that is the fear of death while communism is powered only by the much weaker force of envy.


What religious power inspired conservatives to ignore facts, science, history, and their own constitution?
#14800123
SolarCross wrote:The new secular religions (communism, anarchism, fascism etc) then have to exploit with their narratives other aspects of human psychology such as envy and the revenge dynamic.

If we do accept your idea that there is a type of person who was once drawn to the priesthood as a place for their talents/desires, but had to find alternative positions once the bottom fell out of the supernatural game, then that "etc" is covering a huge number of unlisted areas. Envy, for instance, shows up most obviously in consumerism, with those working in marketing being the new priests. And the revenge dynamic resides most comfortably in nationalism. Trump's campaign and election is the biggest expression of this so far - driven almost entirely by desires for revenge on Mexicans, Muslims, LGBT, Democrats, and women. Let's hope nothing even more explicitly about revenge ever comes along.

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