The Islamic terriorists strike again... What is the solution ? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14794833
Get out of bed with people like the Sauds, find a better location for refugees (outside of established populations)... but those are just mitigating. We could never appeal to the fanatical Islamists, even if we left entirely, and doubling down on a local presence is very costly. I would think that we could look back on the processes that happened in SE Asia during the Cold War, with whom we trade now, could be a clue. Even just appealing to the majority of Muslims who aren't terrorist assholes wouldn't have enough effect; there only needs to be a small number for them to be effective attacking us. And it isn't just attacking us, they spend a lot of time attacking each other. We just need to get out of the line of fire and try to make them outcasts. Which is about as likely as American fundamentalists suddenly becoming atheists.
#14794903
Sweden's prime minister or whatever said they were going to increase border controls in the country, following the latest attack, although we don't know what that means in the Swedish context. The country is pretty cucked and probably can't save itself at this stage of its degeneration.

I honestly find it sort of quaint that people change their positions after events like this, more attacks are a guarantee so why can't people just be honest with themselves and accept what they think will be effective? Looks like a bunch of cowards.
#14794910
Hong Wu wrote:I honestly find it sort of quaint that people change their positions after events like this

lol, yes, we should all be like you and just toe the party line and never reconsider positions as situations change. THAT is quaint.

What is your plan? Just send the refugees back to their countries?
#14794934
Zagadka wrote:lol, yes, we should all be like you and just toe the party line and never reconsider positions as situations change. THAT is quaint.

What is your plan? Just send the refugees back to their countries?

I don't have a party line to tow but yes, you should be able to establish a position regarding things you know will happen before they happen.
#14794935
Hong Wu wrote:I don't have a party line to tow but yes, you should be able to establish a position regarding things you know will happen before they happen.

I don't think I know everything.

For instance, this issue. What is your solution? I have some opinions, but they are theoretical. I would love someone to solve these issues.
#14794941
Elyzabeth wrote:Is there a solution ?

They keep punching and hitting and we keep saying
"Yes, but most Muslims are good.! ( which is true)
However no solution is offered.

At what point do we say we won't take it anymore?
And then what do we do about it ?



As the saying goes," The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for 'good' men to do NOTHING".

Where these mavericks operate, only a few 'good' young men have done anything.

I know it changes nothing, but, on conviction, the death penalty should be immediate imposed.

What encourages these people to ever lower depths of depraved behaviour, is the do-goody 'Liberals' in the West, many of them, victims family.
Maybe the West should allow full Sharia courts to carry out all limb amputations or beheadings of these vile cowards ,thus countering the notion that other Muslims are silent 'sympathisers' of these vile cowards.

Doing so would bring us all closer to a common position.
#14794948
Igor Antunov wrote:Clearly the solution is to double down and bomb secular forces in the middle east, help Al Nusra and ISIS. Spread Al Saud's ideology far and wide, from Europe to North America.

But seriously, the west is finished. I take comfort in that Australia will be the last domino to fall, plenty of time to prepare.


There really is no way to help the West.

Its a completely lost cause.
#14794961
I think you are vastly overestimating the cohesion and group power of Muslims. They tear each other up more than us; we need to give them the room to re-engage other targets. We just keep sticking our foot in the door.

From a human rights point of view, they are a complete nightmare, but there isn't much we can do about that outlook. Islam is Islam. We won't mass convert any major population to anything else. I would almost take the position of disengaging and taking care of ourselves, but we do share the same planet, so we will cross swords occasionally. We shouldn't be giving them propaganda, though.

It IS possible for Muslim countries to get up to the modern world... Afghanistan was well developing before it all went to shit. I have no clue how to reproduce that elsewhere though.
#14794972
The Islamic world just being mainly Asian, just as the rest of the continent, is widely more collectivist than the western individualist world.
The reason many analysts keep saying that everything happening today can be traced back to the days of Sykes-Picot is because the collective was broken down.
Although the culture of collectivist mindset remained to a large degree, the identity broke down into several. And thus it results in conflict.
Previous to the 20th century, there were only a handful of nations in the Islamic world being mainly empires in which even though contained many sub cultures and identities, viewed them selves as united in one larger identity. The smaller number of umbrella identities and cultures allowed much easier diplomacy and dealing between them. However, once broken into several dozens of much smaller ones. without the public and diplomatic institutions to make ease between all of them, inevitably weakened them and made them poorer and in competition with each other and thus war soon followed.

This is divide and conquer strategy used by the British and the French having its direct consequences this very day.

Why does hatred of the west rapidly spread in the newer generations more than those of the older ones ?
Thats because the first regimes to take place after the divide were all oppressive and restricted peoples access to many if not most material to learn of history and information of what is really happening around them. This again gradually decreased and fully ended within the beginings of the 21st century when everyone specially within the newer generations became to see the causes of the hardships they're in and who holds responsibility and to what degree.
This is why the Arab spring happened, and this is why militant groups are rising in power rapidly all over.

The core western countries though did participate would not be targeted much before the direct actors were brought down, however the constant intervention by western powers mainly the US, UK and France makes them a target. And with more time passing by, they'll be attacked more and more as the uprisings are and will spread even more.
If you think you're having it bad now, wait until people in the gulf states start raising the heat against their governments.
Thats where the real big wars starts because as bad Syria is, Syria doesn't have any organized tribes, and by far doesn't have any actual desert people. Desert people and tribals are usually the ones you'd avoid running into even in peace time.
Both of those are in abundance in the gulf states and in Jordan. i.e the reason why their governments are given all sorts of weapons to keep them down. But they're not staying down for long.
#14794975
Zagadka wrote:I think you are vastly overestimating the cohesion and group power of Muslims. They tear each other up more than us; we need to give them the room to re-engage other targets. We just keep sticking our foot in the door.


Except Muslims are not what is making us doomed. It is our own stupidity. We keep fiddling around in a part of the world where we do not belong. We are the children of Europe and the north. Why are we involving ourselves in far away lands in which we have no roots?

Zagadka wrote:From a human rights point of view, they are a complete nightmare, but there isn't much we can do about that outlook. Islam is Islam. We won't mass convert any major population to anything else. I would almost take the position of disengaging and taking care of ourselves, but we do share the same planet, so we will cross swords occasionally. We shouldn't be giving them propaganda, though.


Its time we stopped caring about human rights. Anyhow, we do not really care about them enough to make our allies respect the human rights of their own citizens. Why do we then feel compelled to export this to the rest of the world? If the Arabs, the Chinese or the Russians want our model they can choose it and set it up themselves. Our liberal revolutions were something we fought for by ourselves. We did not get it imposed on us by an outside force. Democracy and human rights are not for export, they are home grown.

I know the solution and have had it for years, but few people in the West will listen. But I know that it is the only solution and one that will work. The solution is complete and total disengagement. There is no third option.

Zagadka wrote:It IS possible for Muslim countries to get up to the modern world... Afghanistan was well developing before it all went to shit. I have no clue how to reproduce that elsewhere though.


I know how we can reproduce it, by leaving them to their own devices and letting them live in freedom.

anasawad wrote:If you think you're having it bad now, wait until people in the gulf states start raising the heat against their governments.
Thats where the real big wars starts because as bad Syria is, Syria doesn't have any organized tribes, and by far doesn't have any actual desert people. Desert people and tribals are usually the ones you'd avoid running into even in peace time.
Both of those are in abundance in the gulf states and in Jordan. i.e the reason why their governments are given all sorts of weapons to keep them down. But they're not staying down for long.


Our only solution is to get out of your region. We must leave now. There is no other alternative. Why will they not listen to me?
#14794995
Zagadka wrote:I don't think I know everything.

For instance, this issue. What is your solution? I have some opinions, but they are theoretical. I would love someone to solve these issues.

One solution is to get rid of the refugees, as you noted. Another solution would be to say that if a foreigner is going to come in and receive free money from the government, he loses certain rights, such as the right to privacy, since some of these people are killing the natives in the streets, they need to be monitored differently than non-citizens.

Try to red pill yourself by grasping how ridiculous it is that refugees are said to be monitored in the same way as native citizens. This refugee thing is not just about being nice, it is about promoting the facetious dialogue that everyone is the same as everyone else.
#14795003
There are many different solutions to stopping terrorism. All of them are unpalatable to one or more factions in society.

We could, for example, analyse the situation objectively and then address the root causes of terrorism. Or we could make it unprofitable for terrorism to work by no changing our government to one that is no longer accountable to the targeted citizenry.

The former is unpopular with conservatives and capitalists. The latter is unpopular with anyone who likes the freedoms we currently have.
#14795062
Pants-of-dog wrote:Or we could make it unprofitable for terrorism to work by no changing our government to one that is no longer accountable to the targeted citizenry.

Could you rephrase that? I'm not clear on what you mean.
#14795080
Radical Islam relies on four things to grow.

First it must have an appeal to disenfranchised young men. The ME has them tripping over one another. They have no jobs, no prospects and no real hope that things will change. So the metaphysical argument is the only one that they might see as a possibility. Besides. Radical Islam offers the young man three more things he desperately wants. He wants power. This power gives him sexual expression. Then it adds forgiveness for behavior he knows is inconsistent with the modern world. He gets fucked and forgiven in the same act. It is a powerful message.

Second it must have legitimacy. The Koran gives it that in spades. Competing "Bible" versus. It is all too familiar.

Third it must have financial support. Saudi Arabia and its proxies give it all of that it needs and it needs very little.

I am in favor of virtual disengagement. We should not allow immigration from the region. We should watch the immigrants we do have. We should block websites that aim to radicalize people. We should instantly deport any non-citizen who even flirts with radicalism. We should financially disengage with state sponsors of terror. Finally we should attack and destroy terror leaders quietly but effectively. No press release. No White House briefing. Just a knock at the door or a flash of light and they are irrelevant.

Radical Islam needs a bogey man. The West is made to order. It is liberal and apostate. The perfect evil counterbalance to the extreme control of Islamic radicalism. We don't hate Americans, Allah hates Americans.

It is important too to realize the true nature of the problem. It is not an ever present danger. We are not dying by the thousands from an invasion of terrorists. For the most part terrorism outside of the ME is a mostly random and infrequent occurrence.

One strategy is to make the legitimate government in the area fear us more than they fear the terrorists. They should know that if any act is traced back to their support there will be instantaneous and devastating consequences. Not the destruction of an airplane, the destruction of ALL of their airplanes. Regime change by drone is not out of the question if the leader is shown to have supported terror.
#14795082
@Drlee
Maybe a more effective and direct action would be to perhaps stop sending the terrorists weapons as well ? Just saying, because you know. It seems that the US is the largest provider of weaponry for these groups, like the "moderate" rebels your government support whom just happens to join ISIS right after they receive the weapons. Probably because they're sub groups of ISIS and simply flirting with your defense industry for support.

Don't get me wrong, the leaders whom are driving this should be killed off. and people that are fighting those groups on the ground are already working on it.
But before you go all the way to the bombing solution or better say the military intervention, perhaps you should consider that the military option is already being taken and the problem is cutting off the life line of these groups which your government is maintaining and in the same time not try to stop people who want to improve the conditions for the people so they don't become desperate and likable to join such militant group.

For example, instead of bombing Assad or continuosly seeking to destroy hem for an oil pipeline, you should consider he has over 85% of his people supporting hem because he's been giving them a good life for years on end. Until a faction of the military ofcourse tried to coup the government with US support.

Or like Gaddafi who had his people living in conditions better than everyone else in Africa and the middle east with the highest Human development rates in both, and was actively destroying Islamists groups trying to attack from neighboring areas, until he was bombed by NATO and his people impoverished beyond imagination.


Those types of things should be considered before saying you say you should start bombing.
Last edited by anasawad on 08 Apr 2017 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
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