China has actually been rising, but unlikely to displace the western dominance - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14799774
Potemkin wrote:[W]e are containing the Chinese 'threat' (such as it is) by trying to integrate the Chinese economy into the capitalist global economy. If China attacks us or tries to subjugate us, they would be killing the goose that lays the golden egg, and they know it. If the West collapses, then China collapses with it. Instead of MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction, there is MACE - Mutually Assured Co-Existence.

There was similar rhetoric about Europe 100 years ago and people stated that with all the trade and economic interdependence no one would tolerate the costs of a major conflict. And then the entire continent descended into war after one politician got shot in the face. This war consumed so much blood and treasure that it was called the great war and people claimed that war was surely impossible now because no nation could tolerate that much pain and suffering. And then they did.

Sasa wrote:My logic tells me the comments from Youtube already reflect the thoughts of elite Chinese, given they have to understand English and are interested in cultural/political discussion, what’s more they have to know how to break the GFW internet ban to access Youtube. So if the elite Chinese even think like that, we can imagine the situation of less educated Chinese.

Are you sure they aren't immigrants or members of China's diaspora? We saw plenty of Chinese nationalists cheering the Olympic flag in Europe and N America.

Re China vs Taiwan

Taiwan, along with the other Asian tigers, was granted preferential trading policies by the US in order to allow them to grow prosperous and not to be tempted to become communist. They also undermine the attraction to communism for other nations, which would prefer the carrot of US trade to the stick of US bombs. China is large enough to stand up for itself and demand decent treatment and it also benefits from economies of scale, which the global economy currently demands and is driving other nations into closer cooperation- EU, AU, ASEAN, etc.

PS- Please don't double post. Use the quote and edit buttons to make all comments in one post.

@benpenguin
You interpret the recent response to contaminated food to show that the gov't is highly responsive and more rapid than CNN but you could also interpret this as a sign of restrictions on the press and the inability to pursue investigative journalism. The gov't previously suppressed reports of contaminated milk to shift negative headlines away from the Olympics and was willing to allow many more children to be sickened in the meantime. The CPP's track record fails to instill confidence.
_______

There's some interesting discussion here but it seems to me a very western-centric world view. No one has yet mentioned that many of Asia's major rivers have their sources in Tibet and China is able to control the flow of water by building a series of dams. These dams provide electricity and flood control but they also have a huge impact on water flows downstream, which effects ecology, fish stocks, farm fertility and water supplies granting China unilateral control over a vital resource.

China is able to buy influence with its significant largess, business investments and infrastructure development and I expect it will dominate mainland SE Asia. It's also getting a head start in Africa as the Chinese move in to pursue business oppourtunities whilst most developed countries overlook those oppourtunities and assume the whole continent is a basket case mired in poverty, violence and famine.

We'll be living in a multi-polar world within 50 years.
#14799832
AFAIK wrote:You interpret the recent response to contaminated food to show that the gov't is highly responsive and more rapid than CNN but you could also interpret this as a sign of restrictions on the press and the inability to pursue investigative journalism. The gov't previously suppressed reports of contaminated milk to shift negative headlines away from the Olympics and was willing to allow many more children to be sickened in the meantime. The CPP's track record fails to instill confidence.

I agree. My point there was the speed of policy implementation and responsiveness enabled by authoritarianism, and in fact on the overall, very big picture things are improving. That is the upside. However, because of the lack of consultation and transparency, it's always 3 steps ahead and 2 steps back. I simply used that example to elaborate the merits of the system against the bad.
#14799942
benpenguin wrote:I agree. My point there was the speed of policy implementation and responsiveness enabled by authoritarianism, and in fact on the overall, very big picture things are improving. That is the upside. However, because of the lack of consultation and transparency, it's always 3 steps ahead and 2 steps back. I simply used that example to elaborate the merits of the system against the bad.


If you praise the efficiency of dictatorship, we all have to go back to middle age then. See how efficient it was when Kim Jong-on executed the senior general - job done within one day.

If Benpenguin were the dictator, rather than spending so much time and effort to "convince" us here, he would simply ban the discussion and arrest people like me, and that's the "speed".
#14800044
China cannot pose any threat to the West, unless you think that America not having free reign in the Pacific is some sort of threat to the Western world.

It is most unlikely that the Chinese will manage to obtain hard influence in Europe. I do see them opening a military base in any European country. However in Asia, Africa and the Middle East it is quite likely they will expand their presence.
#14800458
To make it clearer what the China's ambitious ideology is (as not few arguing "Chinese culture/History"): they don't just challenge "the West", but that non-Western stuff originated before 1949's communist rule, typically traditional Chinese characters. They dream of creating a world where everything should be appointed by the Communist authority.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1976567 ... e.co.nz%2F

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