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#14802693

Why the left is losing

Noah Millman

Can the liberal left rise to the challenge of right-wing populism?

That is the great political question of the moment in the West. And while the odds are they will meet the immediate challenge in the French election this weekend, the larger picture does not inspire optimism. Indeed a victory for Emmanuel Macron over Marine Le Pen may itself herald further deterioration in the liberal left's position in that country. It's not that the liberal left has no policy response to today's economic or political challenges. Indeed, as the debate between Macron and Le Pen illustrated well, right-wing populists are the ones who are more comfortable with slogans and postures than with policy prescriptions, and that is reason enough for plenty of voters to be nervous about voting for them. But something deeper than policy is being contested, over and over again, in Britain, in America, and now in France. What's being contested is the nature of politics itself. And that's the debate the liberal left is increasingly losing.

In our common liberal understanding of the roots of politics, the government rules with the consent of the governed. Representative systems of government acknowledge that the people cannot rule directly, both because direct democracy is impractically cumbersome and because they lack the expertise necessary to make informed decisions. But the people's consent is still essential. And for the people to consent, there has to be a people — a political community that sees itself as a community.

A political community does not have to be defined in ethnic terms. The United States is not — and never has been, not even during the darkest era of official white supremacy. For that matter, France is not — historically, it has stood out among European nations for its relatively large foreign-born population, and has prided itself on a culture that people from all over Europe, and even beyond, might want to adopt it. But for a political community to exist, its members must at least acknowledge its existence. And that implies some sense of its boundaries. This process of self-definition is increasingly anathema to liberal parties. Ostensibly, the reason is fear of being exclusionary — even racist. To define the political community in any way beyond the purely formal — those who happen to live in a particular territory — is to risk implying a preference for one group over another. But this kind of thinking is misguided — and not just because the applause for diversity is frequently selective (a common complaint of religious conservatives). The deeper reason may be more subtly self-interested.

The leadership of center-left and liberal parties is increasingly the product of formally meritocratic institutions: universities, government, banks, and other corporations. And their strongest base of support comes from citizens of a similar background, including the professional classes. Success within the world of these institutions often depends on performance metrics as well as formal qualifications and self-promotion — however imperfectly meritocratic they are, there is some basis to their claims to promote the "best" individuals. They do not, however, depend on evidence of political leadership as democracies have traditionally understood it. They do not depend on a deep investment in or ability to speak to a particular political community. And that shows in the way they do speak, whether it's Hillary Clinton's self-directed "I'm With Her" campaign slogan or Emmanuel Macron's statement that there is no such thing as French culture.

These impolitic slips aren't accidents. People who rose through these systems and these institutions have a vested interest in defining politics in technocratic terms, in suggesting that the purpose of politics is to find the "best" people to make the "best" policy decisions. If that's what politics is, then community has little to do with political decision-making. Indeed, democracy itself can come to seem more a problem than a solution — if the people can't bring themselves to make the right decision, then maybe more and more decisions need to be taken out of their hands. The European Union was arguably designed with that very notion consciously in mind.

But "best" is not an objective attribute of either a person or a policy. Just as an organism can only be "fit" in evolutionary terms with respect to its environment, a policy can only be "best" for achieving a particular set of ends for a particular group of people. To convince that particular group of people to trust that you know what is "best," you first have to assure them that you know they are a particular group of people. Then you have to convince them that you have heard what they are saying: what set of ends most concern them. In other words, you have to treat them as a political community.

The reactionary populist right is rising fundamentally because the old Thatcherite/Reaganite right failed to achieve the most urgent ends for Western electorates, ends related to control: over their economic future, over their personal security, over their common culture. An older iteration of the liberal left would have had little trouble capitalizing on this failure. But it would have had the luxury of presuming the existence of a common culture, and could readily speak that common language.

As that commonality has become fragile and contested, the liberal left is increasingly tempted to operate as if the idea of political community were itself obsolete, and politics is just about choosing the best person to navigate the future. But by implicitly or explicitly dismissing the importance of a political community, the liberal left, far from defining politics in a way that anoints them the obvious and natural leaders of society, are defining themselves in a way that drives the electorate ever further into the arms of their populist foes.

Unfair though it undoubtedly seems to their own political base, today's liberal left needs to do much more than demonstrate competence or right-thinking to win back popular trust. Contrary to their deepest impulses, they need to demonstrate that they don't think they're any better than anybody else.

http://theweek.com/articles/696830/why-left-losing

I thought this article makes some interesting points which contribute to the current polarisation.

I have no confidence in the left's introspection at this point, so here's hoping that it will indeed keep losing.
#14802707
lol I think you fucked up when you posted this talking about the left. Liberals are all right-wing so that is a pretty silly error.

Marxism is on the rise everywhere tho. Sure we are still pretty weak but we haven't been on an upswing this dramatic for decades in the west.
#14802718
Dagoth Ur wrote:lol I think you fucked up when you posted this talking about the left. Liberals are all right-wing so that is a pretty silly error.

Marxism is on the rise everywhere tho. Sure we are still pretty weak but we haven't been on an upswing this dramatic for decades in the west.



Marxism is not on the rise. and in the former soviet states Marxism (communism) is getting extincted as its main supporters are mostly old people who who will be gone in the coming decades together with the Marxist ideology

please cut the bullshit. I know that there are some hippies wanna be communists in the US and in Western Europe but it dosent mean that communism will take over any time soon. they dont even know what is communism they support it because its "cool"
#14802728
If the right keeps winning, then the budget will continue to be unbalanced. The right does not know how to manage a budget for shit. All they want to do is cut funds here and there, without finding a means to raise funds to cover the losses caused from cutting budgets here and there. They fail to comprehend that it is a 2-sided equation. If you take off from one side, the other side will not match it. If they understood double-entry accounting, they would do a bit better with managing budgets.

But the right tends to only just cut out what they do not like, all the while they bitch and moan. I hope some day that the ignorant public sees this.
#14802732
lol ZN you think I care about a decrepit dinosaur like the KPRF? Y'know the CPUSA isn't doing so good either. I'm sure it has nothing to do with these being revisionist groups of snitches and reactionaries that have earned the distrust of most of the left.

Honestly I'm surprised the KPRF does so well.
#14802735
Marxism was a failure it does not work. the 20th century have proven it with the defeat of communism in the cold war and its complete disappearance from Europe
today there are 4 Marxist countries left (3 without China which is not really Marxist) and all of them are poor shitholes
#14802742
MistyTiger wrote:If the right keeps winning, then the budget will continue to be unbalanced. The right does not know how to manage a budget for shit. All they want to do is cut funds here and there, without finding a means to raise funds to cover the losses caused from cutting budgets here and there. They fail to comprehend that it is a 2-sided equation. If you take off from one side, the other side will not match it. If they understood double-entry accounting, they would do a bit better with managing budgets.

But the right tends to only just cut out what they do not like, all the while they bitch and moan. I hope some day that the ignorant public sees this.


Yea the public is so ignorant :roll:

Under Obama the grand total: a net loss of 1,042 state and federal Democratic posts, including congressional and state legislative seats, governorships and the presidency.
#14802743
Dagoth Ur wrote:China, DPRK, Laos, Vietnam, Cuba, which doesn't even count groups like the Naxalites or Zapatistas. All of these nations are richer than dozens of capitalist third world nations.


But what about all other communist countries that are no longer communist or the soviet union that dont exist anymore.

life there was never at the same quality as in the western capitalist countries. soviet people were always jealous of the westerns and were dreaming to live like them.
#14802751
MistyTiger wrote:If the right keeps winning, then the budget will continue to be unbalanced. The right does not know how to manage a budget for shit. All they want to do is cut funds here and there, without finding a means to raise funds to cover the losses caused from cutting budgets here and there. They fail to comprehend that it is a 2-sided equation. If you take off from one side, the other side will not match it. If they understood double-entry accounting, they would do a bit better with managing budgets.

But the right tends to only just cut out what they do not like, all the while they bitch and moan. I hope some day that the ignorant public sees this.


Does Obama know how to balance a budget?
#14802756
We all know what @Kaiserschmarrn meant by left. For the most part we all understand the difference between the liberal left and communism (with notable exceptions from the nonsense wing of PoFo). Communism is kinda irrelevant to the OP.

As for the OP I would argue that seeing policy decisions as best served by technocratic experts isn't necessarily contrary to community run politics. After all what the best outcomes are is a matter of values that can't be parsed out by any amount of expertise. The community decides what the values the government runs on should be and the elected officials use expertise to see those values fulfilled as best they can. Ideally anyway.

If anything can be said of left liberals, in america at least, it's that they sometimes have trouble articulating the values they represent on economic issues.

A lot of the article seems to be devoted to a feeling the author has about liberals that is harder to address as it's driven more by tribalism. Republicans tend to have a stereotypical image of liberals that drives how they see democrats and democrats do the same to republicans.

I also am not entirely sure what the author is trying to suggest the political community in america be viewed as. They clearly suggest that it being simply the people in a given territory is a wrongheaded liberal idea, but what else would you view as the political community you represent? Culture? Or just the subgroups of the community that support your views?

The whole things comes off as a bit muddled when the conclusion is ultimately that liberals just need to appear to be more populist. Which may or may not be true but it certainly isn't substantive and wouldn't require any real change.
#14802757
@mikema63

If I try to put into words what OP may be trying to get across:

Lefty politicians (at least in Europe - don't know to well about the US) don't represent anybody. They claim to represent everybody in the whole world, which is the same as representing nobody. Populists represent usually an ethnic group. When people vote for someone, they want that someone to represent them. That may prove to be the bane of the left.
#14802768
The article explicitly rejects race as the core of the political community for the US and Europe. As for European politicians I haven't seen much from them to suggest that they think the represent the world outside of caring about humanitarian issues. Which many people do and are liable to feel that politicians addressing those issues are representing them.

I suspect that the feeling that the left aren't representing the people stems from the feelings of right wing people that the left isn't representing them and their values, which is true enough. Which is why they don't vote for left wing politicians. But it's trivially true and isn't something the left is obligated to address as it's the perrogative of the voters to vote for their Representatives and the Representatives perrogative to not forward the desires of people who didnt vote for them and want the opposite of what people who did vote for them want.

Politicians who aren't nationalists get voted in by voters who don't want nationalists. This can change in new elections but the political community electing someone who doesn't view the political community in the way that you want isn't the fault of the politician.
#14802771
There is a certain utility in pointing out how the word, "left," has lost meaning in this discussion. In an Orwellian sense, a totalitarian social push by the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie has made the very act of imagining the left nearly impossible.

Here the OP casually defines the "left," as being, "centre right." Within my own lifetime, the Clintons went from the extreme right of the Democratic Party to labeled as extreme leftists by the media--and thus everyone else.

This becomes more than an aesthetic problem with the OP. There is a binary it paints where there is the "left," which means a bourgeois dictatorship of their class; and the right, which means defending and saving a bourgeois dictatorship of their class by dividing resistance.

The left, in large measure, specifically addresses what the OP brings up as a novelty. Mass movement and mobilization is, and always was, the tactic and goal for the left. From the Sans Collets putting the Jacobins in charge; to the Storming of the Winter Palace; and even the mass mobilization of a whisper campaign supporting Chinese, Cuban, Irish, and other guerrillas, it is all the mass movement that the OP silently keeps quiet.

Marx started his career in writing about alienation. Two centuries of suppression of the left has resulted in this OP labeling the suppression of the left as a cure for the left, challenged only by greater suppression by the left.

Open a goddamned book. How elitist of me to know facts, but this whole conception collapses under the weight of even a glance at words in print.
#14802774
It's not like I'm disputing that Tig its just a little annoying when pointing that out becomes the entire thread and the OP is lost.
#14802778
I don't mean to lay that on you specifically, Mike.

Broadly speaking, the OP brings up a false dynamic. What really is the difference between what this identifies as right and left?

Essentially whether overt racism can dog-whistle people into a political party or not. The answer is yes.

But what now? There is no serious discussion about anything else. Even in Rochard Spencer's greatest masturbatory fantasy, it's still some poor fuck picking fruit for export or cleaning the sewer--just white. He's still buying his children shitty plastic toys with material from the Indian Ocean and processed by China.
#14802796
@mikema63

You can take my word for it.

Lefty politicians regularly spout with fervour their enthusiasm for multiculturalism generally, and specifically that us natives have no claim to our homeland, property or social system, that it's there for anybody who turns up. They also miss no opportunity to denigrate local culture and elevate foreign culture, and deny the identity of natives. Case in point: Macron has declared that French culture doesn't exist. Another case in point: The Swedish parliament has declared that there's no such thing as Swedish history.
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