What ISIS Really Wants - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Saeko
#14807806
Stream of consciousness rant ahead:

In the wake of the latest terrorist attacks in Manchester, I've been noticing that a lot of the same fallacious arguments regarding the causes of Islamic extremism and the best response to it get repeated over and over again.

The chief of these is that we should "not be afraid" (i.e. do nothing) because "that's what ISIS wants". And what they supposedly ultimately want is a war between Muslims and the West.

Ummm... no.

For one thing, if they want war with the West, then why don't they ever attack any politicians or government buildings? I can't think of a better way to start a war. But no, they continually attack defenceless civilians that European and British politicians evidently don't give two shits about.

And the conclusion is simple. They do not want war. Why? Well, that's obvious, because they would lose. They are fully cognizant of the fact that the moment they attack any "real" target, it's Game Over for them.

What ISIS really wants, or, I should say what ISIS commanders really want is new recruits. They want to make big splashes in the media, so they can recruit more young men to fight for them so they can rape, loot, and pillage and make themselves rich and powerful.

So obviously the correct response to their little strategy is not "we are not afraid" (do nothing), but instead to give them the one thing that they say they want the most but actually fear the most.
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By Hong Wu
#14807838
I believe what ISIS really wants is based off of an understanding of Islam and can't be properly understood through causal analysis.

There was this event where the US was engaged with ISIS and failed to predict which city they would attack because they chose to attack a poorly defensible city that is mentioned in a haditha. After the US adapted and killed them, they kept trying to retake it, suffering heavy losses. These aren't people who can be understood through conventional western analysis.

So I'm not saying your analysis is bad, I'm saying that you are just not on the right track. These people do not think according to the same methodologies that western people do. You are trained to think in terms of material cause, effect, result, they are trained to think according to a form of Islamic reasoning.
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By Hong Wu
#14807841
Zagadka wrote:They clearly want to at least be on their own. They are terrified of antagonizing Israel and the West. If we disengage entirely, they can slowly build up more power in the region.

You think they bomb civilians because they're terrified of antagonizing us?
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By Saeko
#14807846
Hong Wu wrote:You think they bomb civilians because they're terrified of antagonizing us?


If they were complete ideological fanatic lunatics, they would have attacked Israel by now.
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By Hong Wu
#14807849
Saeko wrote:If they were complete ideological fanatic lunatics, they would have attacked Israel by now.

They have doctrinal reason for having not attacked Israel yet. Why are you assuming you understand their doctrines? Have you read them? If you do an internet search they have explained why they aren't attacking Israel yet. I'm not saying that they are completely irrational but they are heavily influenced by things you don't understand.
By Rich
#14807872
ISIS believe that they have the creator of the universe on their side. They need miracles to reinforce their beliefs. What sort of miracles? Well just imagine that they murdered and horrifically injured dozens of our kids and then we were too afraid to say Muslim. Obviously I am a rationalist, that could never happen, but that's the sort of miracle ISIS would need to sustain themselves.
By Decky
#14807875
Saeko wrote:If they were complete ideological fanatic lunatics, they would have attacked Israel by now.


Why would ISIS attack their own pay masters? Without the zionist entity there would be no ISIS, the idea of them turning their guys that way is ludicrous.
By noir
#14807877
Decky wrote:Why would ISIS attack their own pay masters? Without the zionist entity there would be no ISIS, the idea of them turning their guys that way is ludicrous.



Go one step behind. Without Britain dismantling the Ottoman Empire (the last Caliphate) there would not be terror, ISIS, all those shadowy Arab "states", oil fiefdoms, wars, Palestine (!) and Israel. It all started then. Arabs under half civilised nation like Turks was the best option. But then some British Arabophiles started to incite these lot to rebel and claim nationalism and the results we see today.
Last edited by noir on 24 May 2017 11:16, edited 1 time in total.
By Decky
#14807879
noir wrote:Go one step behind. Without Britain dismantling the Ottoman Empire (the last Caliphate) there would not be terror, ISIS, all those shadowy Arab "states", oil fiefdoms and Israel. It all started then.


And who controls the British government eh Noir?

Image

This is a picture of Benjamin D'Israeli, it tells you everything you need to know.
By noir
#14807882
Ah, Dizzy! Peace be upon him. Those who incited the Arabs to rebel was not Dizzy. In fact the antisemites at that time accused him to be Turcophile, which he probably was, after all he was Spharadi Jew.

You need to read more about British Empire history.
#14807890
What ISIS wants, ISIS will NOT get.

These religious terrorist groups are all about 'promoting' their version of the chosen 'faith' through violence, in this case , Islam.

These 'Jihadi' terrorist operate against the interest of Islam, more specifically the targets in the war they wage, against children, women or the disabled.

They are not amenable to the voice of reason, in that, they are not alone, just one aspect of the religious zealots is that they distort & 'misunderstand' the religious dogma that they have adopted as their modus operandi in pursuit of their vile 'caliphate.

As vile as they are, the fact is, they have taken an accepted religious faith's teachings as the justification for their actions, albeit in a literal sense to their own ignorant understanding of 'faith'.

I personally abhor ALL religion, but I accept that ALL people should be free to 'believe' what they wish.

They in turn have to accept that they, their religion will always be exposed for what it is, a complete waste of time & talent that should be expressed elsewhere in life.

They who live by the sword, die by the sword.

President PUTIN is 100% true to purpose in his response to these terrorist, this British government talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk with terrorist, instead it lets them walk through our porous borders, enabling future attacks against our innocent citizens.

We live on an island , which should make national security border checks easy to control, instead, these terrorist of the future are able to enter on or underneath lorries at ease.
We have a government in name only, it is fully engaged in being dysfunctional, it is still fighting(at our expense)the 'cold war' of 60 years ago, control our borders you IDIOTS & make ALL public venues such as football stadiums, concert halls etc install adequate numbers of sensors to screen the intake into them when open.
Last edited by Nonsense on 24 May 2017 11:51, edited 1 time in total.
By noir
#14807892
They want Caliphate, reading the Middle Eastern history, it could be a good idea. Depends who is the ruler. Arab nationalism is fake and brought up by British Arabophiles. At that time some Islamic authors warned the public not to get it. Beyond Arabists, Britain had its own intetest to weaken Turkey. It was called The Great Game.
#14807908
I take ISIS on face value, as best I can interpret Western editorial policies on the matter. They seem to wish to fulfill a prophecy, kill unbelievers, and destroy evidence of other cultures. ISIS adherents appear to relish torturing their captives and the spilling of blood; a lust accompanied by the evocation of Almighty God. Considering their connections to the Saudi-Wahhabi Sunnis, it is highly probable that they are supported from Saudi Arabia, and it is a stretch of credibility to suggest they would be supported by any Western authority or Israel. You would have to be a enthusiastic conspiracy theorist to buy into that idea.
#14807981
@Saeko I agree with most of that. They want the same thing everyone else does, power.

As for invading all out I'm sceptical that it would work. We could easily invade of course, but then what? Colonize them? Embark on a project of "civilizing" them? I dont know if we could pull a repeat of rebuilding japan. With the amount of animosity many westerners have towards the middle East you'd have to fight for every dollar we put into it.
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