What ISIS Really Wants - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Hong Wu
#14808039
Zagadka wrote:Can you try to explain it in brief (go ahead and link to more detail)?

Their stuff is online, they said that they have to unify Muslims under their rule before they can defeat Israel and give a contextual justification for it. I think people should research it themselves if they are curious, not declare what they're thinking.
#14808066
ISIS is formed around a desire for revenge against the United States and the west for its atrocities in the Middle East. Religious extremism is a major cause but not the chief one.

Basically the west has messed up the world for centuries and now it is now paying for it.
#14808073
MememyselfandIJK wrote:ISIS is formed around a desire for revenge against the United States and the west for its atrocities in the Middle East. Religious extremism is a major cause but not the chief one.

Basically the west has messed up the world for centuries and now it is now paying for it.


You do know that North Africa was first colonised by Britain and France to put an end to the Barbary states' business model of sending slaver ships to raid Europe's coasts for centuries up to Iceland (they had sold over a million Europeans into Muslim slavery)?

Of course not.

According to your logic, they had it coming.
#14808079
Frollein wrote:You do know that North Africa was first colonised by Britain and France to put an end to the Barbary states' business model of sending slaver ships to raid Europe's coasts for centuries up to Iceland (they had sold over a million Europeans into Muslim slavery)?

Of course not.

According to your logic, they had it coming.


Please cite a credible source that this was their primary motivation.
#14808081
Zagadka wrote:They clearly want to at least be on their own. They are terrified of antagonizing Israel and the West. If we disengage entirely, they can slowly build up more power in the region.


The problem is that us being there is what gives them a major source of their recruits. If we leave and then support the more progressive forces in that part of the world, it would be better towards destroying them. Unfortunately we stand against the one force that is fighting these people for dear life.

Forty years ago the West could have supported the secular Arabs against the Islamists. Now the secular Arabs are all but gone and there is only one axis in the Middle East that can offer an alternative vision to the Arab world and save it from barbarism. But we want to be in charge of the Middle East instead of them so the real threat is never really addressed.
Last edited by Political Interest on 24 May 2017 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
#14808084
MememyselfandIJK wrote:
Please cite a credible source that this was their primary motivation.


Of course. :) As soon as you cite a credible source that ISIS just wants to punish the West for being evil, and is not primarily interested in killing Muslims in the Middle East for not being the right kind of Muslim.

I mean, you kinda started the unfounded claims and assumptions, right?

Do you think North Africa deserved to be subjugated after it had murdered and enslaved the coastal populations of Europe for several centuries?

Btw. we were having these kinds of discussions long before you turned up to enlighten us:
viewtopic.php?p=14745063#p14745063
#14808087
Frollein wrote:Of course. As soon as you cite a credible source that ISIS just wants to punish the West for being evil, and is not primarily interested in killing Muslims in the Middle East for not being the right kind of Muslim.I mean, you kinda started the unfounded claims and assumptions, right?
Done. Your turn.
#14808089
See above. The link is in the post. I hope you know how to click a link?
#14808095
@Frollein Skimmed the source, I will read more in-depth later.

To answer your question, no one anywhere deserves to be subjugated. However, like you pointed out, anger over capture of Europeans lead Europe to conquer Africa. Likewise today anger over similar American atrocities have lead to the Islamic was against the west. The parallel is simply too strong not to point out.

I do not support ISIS due to their violent methods, but I understand their anger against the west.
User avatar
By Saeko
#14808102
MememyselfandIJK wrote:@Frollein Skimmed the source, I will read more in-depth later.

To answer your question, no one anywhere deserves to be subjugated. However, like you pointed out, anger over capture of Europeans lead Europe to conquer Africa. Likewise today anger over similar American atrocities have lead to the Islamic was against the west. The parallel is simply too strong not to point out.

I do not support ISIS due to their violent methods, but I understand their anger against the west.


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User avatar
By Suntzu
#14808105
War has always been a means of settling scores. The Middle East wants a war with the West, I say we give it to them. We have a giant stockpile of obsolete nuclear weapons we need to get rid of. :lol:
#14808110
What the apologists don't get is that "understanding" your enemy doesn't change a fucking thing for them. Do you really believe they'll lay down their weapons and talk things through with you over tea and cookies, and then you all embrace in a giant, tearful group hug, if you're just contrite enough now?

The only thing that changes is that it'll be easier for them to win. Because they don't feel the need to make up with us. They want to crush their enemy - us. We can make that easy or difficullt for them. That's why Saeko calls you fifth columnists: you're helping the enemy win this war.
#14808112
They want power, anger at the west is a tool to recruit and gain power. Religion is a tool to recruit and gain power.

Strip away their justifications and you see that they want what every political group wants.

They aren't evil or victims. They are just assholes.
#14808126
mikema63 wrote:They aren't evil or victims. They are just assholes.
Good point.

Frollein wrote:What the apologists don't get is that "understanding" your enemy doesn't change a fucking thing for them. Do you really believe they'll lay down their weapons and talk things through with you over tea and cookies, and then you all embrace in a giant, tearful group hug, if you're just contrite enough now?The only thing that changes is that it'll be easier for them to win. Because they don't feel the need to make up with us. They want to crush their enemy - us. We can make that easy or difficullt for them. That's why Saeko calls you fifth columnists: you're helping the enemy win this war.
The only thing I have said was that I understand their anger. Where have I said I supported them? How am I helping them win? I agree that they need to be put down, but violence won't work -- it's what caused them to rise in the first place. :lol:


Suntzu wrote:War has always been a means of settling scores. The Middle East wants a war with the West, I say we give it to them. We have a giant stockpile of obsolete nuclear weapons we need to get rid of.
You seem quite intent on breaking international law given your recent posts. :lol:
User avatar
By Saeko
#14808130
MememyselfandIJK wrote:Good point.

The only thing I have said was that I understand their anger. Where have I said I supported them? How am I helping them win? I agree that they need to be put down, but violence won't work -- it's what caused them to rise in the first place. :lol:


You seem quite intent on breaking international law given your recent posts. :lol:


:lol: Goddamn liberals. They just don't brain.
#14808133
Cause Japan has been a long standing enemy of the US ever since WW2.

All change requires violence. The result depends on how you use it and what you do after you've won.
#14808181
mikema63 wrote:Cause Japan has been a long standing enemy of the US ever since WW2.

All change requires violence. The result depends on how you use it and what you do after you've won.


Good luck telling MLK, Mandela, or Gandhi that.

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