[Hong Wu]

Let's imagine that whites become an actual minority group in certain countries some time in the future. Will the anti-white dialogues disappear then, or will they continue?

Since not all Christians could be liberalized, obviously not all Muslims will be; it's likely far fewer will be. Will the left start guilt tripping and opposing rightists who are completely unapologetic? Seems to me like that mode of behavior is only effective against Christians, which might explain why western liberalism doesn't really exist outside of the west.

I could go on but my point is, I see no reason at this point to expect certain positions to change no matter what happens and this will probably look very, very weird in the future.

[Frollein]

They'll be guilt-tripping the white minority for not integrating better into Sharia law in their historic homelands.

[noir]

There will be probably a hybrid culture. Don't be too impressed by the current anti Muslim backlash in France, they were through it before (during Algerian War) and reinvented themselves as champion for the Arab cause in just few years. We are in a transition period. The anti Muslim backlash will replace itself by servility and fatalism.

[The Sabbaticus]

The entire human rights framework of the EU facilitates the process of 'bending over'. The bureaucratic apparatus of the EU is further more institutionalized to bring about far reaching changes in EU-member states, with regards to demographic composition, migratory flows and economic legislation.

This coupled with the loss of economic might due to the steady decline of population (25% of the world's population was European in the early 20th century, and nowadays it's 5%), a large influx of new 'economic units' is seen as desirable by the higher-ups. The social and cultural costs are considered negligible as they're operating along multi-decade and -generational plans. And all religions must be treated the same.

[noir]

[The Sabbaticus]

Juncker released a statement about the future of Europe citing a couple of things in his 'White Paper'. If you can get it to load, it should be interesting.

[MistyTiger]

The title of this thread is weird.

Weirder? The US is already quite weird and off balance compared to the rest of the world, IMO.

No one mentions how the rightwingers have gotten more extreme in the past 10 years or so. There were conservatives and then the neoconservatives emerged. And what next? Will there be a neo-neo conservative movement?

[skinster]

[The Immortal Goon]

Will the left start guilt tripping and opposing rightists who are completely unapologetic? Seems to me like that mode of behavior is only effective against Christians, which might explain why western liberalism doesn't really exist outside of the west.

It was mentioned recently by Mike that the board is largely made up of Marxists and alt-right nutters.

Who are you imagining you are addressing here? The left on this board certainly doesn't think that, "western liberalism," constitutes the left. In any kind of academic sense, "western liberalism," has been a rightwing ideology for at least a century and a half if not far longer.

I suspect that the only reason you need to take a rightwing ideology and apply it to, "the left," is a tacit acknowledgement of how rightwing society has become. In which case, you can do what rightwingers love most and blubber about what a pathetic victim you feel like.

If not, please cite where Marx--or even a relative leftist as far back as Thomas Paine--is doing whatever you are whining about.

[SolarCross]

I suspect that the only reason you need to take a rightwing ideology and apply it to, "the left," is a tacit acknowledgement of how rightwing society has become. In which case, you can do what rightwingers love most and blubber about what a pathetic victim you feel like.

"Left" and "right" as spatial metaphors for political positions has always been since it was coined by Carlyle highly variable according to whatever is the philosophical conflict of the day. In Carlyle's day "left" was republicanism and "right" was monarchism. Back in the early 20th century, "left" meant socialism and "right" meant "capitalism". Nowadays socialism is basically a dead proposition since the USSR's collapse. If "left" must remain meaning socialism despite its irrelevance then yeah everybody is "right" wing but then the spatial metaphor is useless at describing anything of relevance today.

At the end of the day you have to move with the times. How weird would it be to use "left" to mean republicanism and "right" to mean monarchism in the early 20th century when everyone else is using those terms in completely different ways! What you are doing is the semantic equivalent of wearing bell bottom trousers and flowery shirts while everyone else is wearing bovver boots, bin bags and safety pins in their noses!

[The Immortal Goon]

At the end of the day you have to move with the times. How weird would it be to use "left" to mean republicanism and "right" to mean monarchism in the early 20th century when everyone else is using those terms in completely different ways! What you are doing is the semantic equivalent of wearing bell bottom trousers and flowery shirts while everyone else is wearing bovver boots, bin bags and safety pins in their noses!

I am guilty of using a political definition that hasn't changed except for in your feelings. That is true.

Also, as noted, if you don't like your imagined definition or the historical one, I specifically pointed out the context of the board in question was given.

[SolarCross]

I am guilty of using a political definition that hasn't changed except for in your feelings. That is true.

Also, as noted, if you don't like your imagined definition or the historical one, I specifically pointed out the context of the board in question was given.

But it isn't just me, the SJWs self-identify as "left" wing. Left just doesn't mean stalinism or bolshevism anymore except for legacy conversations with political fossils, just as "left" wing doesn't mean jacobinism anymore.

Times change.

[The Immortal Goon]

Even were I to accept your personal feelings about a well established concept, this in no way negates the fact that I gave the premise as specifically referring to POFO.

[Hong Wu]

Lots of defensive strawmanning going on here. Do these antifa people waving various types of communist flags not count as leftists or communists? How about the Bernie Bros who identify as communists and do all the things I mentioned, would they count as leftists or communists?

Anyways, I'm obviously using the vernacular definition of leftism that includes communism and not a unique or niche version that a person might employ for whatever reasons.

[SolarCross]

Even were I to accept your personal feelings about a well established concept, this in no way negates the fact that I gave the premise as specifically referring to POFO.

Which is a stupid and false premise because you were crying about Hong Wu's use of term "left" in refering to SJWs of the wider world not just the yea olde time capsule of POFO where zombie stalinists rub shoulders with fossilised leninists.

We don't come to POFO to talk about each other, indeed there are rules against getting too personal, we come to POFO to talk about the world. So when Hong Wu means "left" you should take it as refering to what the "left" is out there and not take it to mean yourself personally as true believer of an ancient and obsolete cult.

[The Immortal Goon]

Which is a stupid and false premise because you were crying about Hong Wu's use of term "left" in refering to SJWs of the wider world not just the yea olde time capsule of POFO where zombie stalinists rub shoulders with fossilised leninists.

Well, if you want to raise the rhetoric level; I'll point out that I realize it's difficult for a Klansman or a Nazi to keep more than a single thought in its head at once, but the right on POFO could try a bit harder.

In the wider world, I don't know anybody that would call, "Western Liberalism," a left wing ideology either. "Western Liberalism," is virtually always used to mean some kind of imperialism.

And on POFO in particular, communists and hooded rightwing nutters are virtually the only people being addressed.

These two things being true, despite your personal feelings about what you want the political orientation to be, the premise for the argument doesn't stand to any kind of reason.

[Beren]

I understand that the terms "left" and "leftist" always must be clarified as they're always used "falsely", but if someone is a Trumpist or a Republican, then we all know what they mean by "left" and "leftist" - they mean everyone left from themselves, mostly Democrats and liberal Europeans whom they also call Liberals or Socialists.

[The Immortal Goon]

And that's a fair use of the term--left of themselves in relative terms. Which would make Mitt Romney a leftist and, for some of them, even Trump as a leftist. This would be in the same relative sense that Stalin was a rightest in the Soviet Union.

But the OP isn't about relative terms, at least in my reading.

And I think it's fair to say that in the mind of most of the quasi-fascists of the alt-right and their ilk, they imagine, "the left," as being a monolithic entity that a lot of the Soros and Cultural-Marxist conspiracy theories are spun upon. Of course, they don't make a lick of sense exactly because the definition of the left they are providing has more to do with their feelings than any kind of actual political orientation.

[Beren]

But the OP isn't about relative terms, at least in my reading.

The OP uses "leftist" as a synonym to left-leaning western liberal (Social Liberal) basically. Unlike "liberalized" and "western liberal", the words "left", "leftist", "leftism", etc. don't even appear in the OP. "Liberal" should have been used instead of "Left" in the thread title.

"The Liberal is Going to Get Weirder, Not Less Weird, Over Time" - as talk radio hosts would most likely say.

[B0ycey]

It is a waste of time using the terms 'Left' and 'Right' on here. There is too much confusion as nobody uses the terms correctly... EVER! For most people the 'Left' means liberalism or socialism but then you'll have someone like Decky who considers the left to mean himself, Stalin, Marx, Scargill perhaps Corbyn and everything else is Right Wing. So just use the generic social terms and not the side of the house their party might sit on when describing peoples political values.