DANGEROUS Excerpt: MILO Explains ‘Why Muslims Hate Me’ - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#14821988
The Immortal Goon wrote:Oh, it wasn't like that. The Saur Revolution was the big step in Afghanistan.


You really wanted to post that PBS source TIG? I quote:

Soon after their entry into Afghanistan, the Soviets imposed military and social reforms that began to make enemies within different sectors of the indigenous population. They initiated land reforms that troubled tribal leaders. They implemented economic measures that worsened conditions for the poor, and tried to curb ethnic uprisings by mass arrests, torture, executions of dissidents and aerial bombardments, according to a November 2001 Amnesty International report.

According to Amnesty International, some 1 million Afghans died during this period, with more than 8,000 people were executed after being put on trial between 1980 and 1988.


That is more or less why I detest the radical left. They think progress should be enforced by some enlightened elite, no matter the human cost. Of course the same "enlightened elite" once implementing progressive reforms inevitably becomes itself a hindrance to progress.
#14821989
Oxymandias wrote:Your assertion is that the left has always sided with "DA EVIIILLL MUSLIMS" and that the left has openly supported Islamism in the Middle East.

I said nothing of the sort. You are willfully misinterpreting everything I said and using terms that I did not use. You have preconceived ideas about anyone criticizing the policies of allowing millions of illegal migrants (some of them genuine refugees) into Europe.

Oxymandias wrote:Also how the fuck are a bunch of undocumented immigrants who are often poor going to get plane tickets to a country that has immigration laws? With mexican immigrants they can at least go over the border. You can't do that when there's thousands of miles of sea between you and your destination.

What are you even talking about?
They come overland via Turkey and the Balkans and by sea to Italy and Greece. The Mediterranean sea is not thousands of miles wide. Anyway, they just have to go one mile into the sea and the leftist NGOs will alert the EU to go and pick them up, providing a ferry taxi service. The hot meals are waiting on the European side.
#14821991
@Ter

This is coming from the person who said Muslims and the left have always been on one front. Dude, I don't give two fucking shits about what you want to do with the migrants. It doesn't affect me in anyway. What I call into offense is when you completely ignore @The Immortal Goon well-written posts that had alot effort put into them and rely solely on your stupid emotions like the irrational rational advocating atheist you are (you see alot more of these sort of people lately).

They are Syrian refugees you idiot. Do you expect them to travel thousands of miles by foot to a country (Turkey) that won't accept immigrants and uses force to justify their laws all the way to a country (Greece) which was notorious for it's terrible treatment of refugees just so an NGO will allow them to enter an extensive asylum seeking process that will last for months or sometimes years due to how terrible the bureaucracy of the EU is.
#14821992
Rugoz wrote:You really wanted to post that PBS source TIG? I quote:


This was my mistake. I had assumed that people on the right would be able to do math. This was apparently overestimating their ability.

You'll note that the part from PBS skips from 1954 to 1979. I had assumed that the context would be informative instead of completely bewildering. Should I go back into Hulk-Speak to help explain that the history of Afghanistan exists?

Or should I go into Hulk-Speak to point out that, even presuming we skip a few decades where it's ideologically inconvenient for American state media, the point still remains that the Americans were funding the most reactionary backward Islamists against native secularists?

Rugoz wrote:That is more or less why I detest the radical left. They think progress should be enforced by some enlightened elite, no matter the human cost. Of course the same "enlightened elite" once implementing progressive reforms inevitably becomes itself a hindrance to progress.


It must have been taxing to get as far as you did! Good job!

But you'll note that this is explicitly addressed:

IMT wrote:It would not be wrong to point out that Saur Revolution was imposed from the top in a revolutionary military uprising with organisational and political weaknesses - it was not a classical socialist revolution from a Marxist standpoint. However no other event in the history of South Asia struck such a blow to the region’s feudal drudgery, tribal primitiveness, religious oppression and exploitation by capitalism and imperialism. This was a revolution by decree, which was immediately supported by millions of oppressed Afghans. These decrees were directed at the most extreme forms of coercion that prevailed within society. Decree no. 6 cancelled debts, loans, mortgages and revenues due from peasants to the usurers and big landlords (in most cases this was debt inherited from generation to generation). The decree fully exempted “landless persons who work on a landowner’s land as a peasant or hireling [wage (day)-labourer]” from paying any dues and usury to the landowners and usurers. Decree no. 7 was “to ensure equality of rights between women and men in the domain of civil law, to eliminate unjust patriarchal feudal relations between wife and husband”. It also criminalized: 1- Girls’ marriage based on exchange for money and goods; 2-Forced marriage; 3- Acts that either prevent a widow, because of family or tribal kinship, from wilfully re-marrying or forcing them into an unwanted marriage. It further fixed the age for engagement and marriage at 16 for women and 18 for men, thus, effectively banning child marriage.

Decree no. 8 confiscated lands owned by the feudal lords and the deposed royal family without compensation and their redistributed it among landless peasants and peasants with small land holdings. The decree’s aim was first and foremost “to eliminate feudal and pre-feudal relations from the social and economic order of the country.”

Some of the other radical policies pursued by the Saur revolution were: cancellation of revenue dues, equitable distribution of water and the establishment of peasant cooperatives. Major literacy programs were launched (by 1984 one and half million people had finished literacy courses and in the same year 20,000 literacy courses were functioning throughout the country enrolling 377,000 people. The target was to eradicate illiteracy by the year 1986 in urban areas and by 1990 all over Afghanistan. In the period prior to the Saur Revolution, only 5,265 people had finished literacy courses. The leadership of PDPA (Khalq) initiated these decrees before the intervention of the Russian forces. They had to overthrow the system, the oligarchy of capital and the state to begin introducing reforms. The Saur revolution proved yet again that in the neo-colonial countries not even the basic tasks of the bourgeois democratic revolution can be commenced under the rule of the rotten colonial bourgeoisie.

Such radical measures sounded the death knell for imperialist interests and the capitalist/feudal system in the whole region. This sent tremors through the corridors of power from Islamabad to Riyadh, London and Washington.


And, again, this in no way counters, acknowledges, or begins to address any of the points brought up. But, hey, you got a chance to talk about your feelings about the left. So that must make you feel good.
#14822002
Oxymandias wrote:This is coming from the person who said Muslims and the left have always been on one front

There you go again. I didn't say "always', I said I am seeing it now.
Oxymandias wrote:What I call into offense is when you completely ignore @The Immortal Goon well-written posts that had alot effort put into them and rely solely on your stupid emotions like the irrational rational advocating atheist you are (you see alot more of these sort of people lately).

Yes I am an atheist, do you have any problems with that?
Oxymandias wrote:They are Syrian refugees you idiot

Please be polite when addressing other posters. It is a violation of forum rules to insult other posters. Your insults do not lend your arguments any extra value by the way, quite the contrary. It rather demonstrates you weakness.
By the way a large proportion of the muslim millions envading Europe are not refugees cbut economic migrants. From Bangladesh and Pakistan for instance.
Oxymandias wrote:Do you expect them to travel thousands of miles by foot to a country (Turkey) that won't accept immigrants and uses force to justify their laws all the way to a country (Greece) which was notorious for it's terrible treatment of refugees just so an NGO will allow them to enter an extensive asylum seeking process that will last for months or sometimes years due to how terrible the bureaucracy of the EU is.

No of course not. They take the bus or the microbus or travel by car provided by the people smugglers. You were talking about plane tickets or have you already forgotten that?
So in order to continue this conversation I request you to be polite and don't put words in my mouth that I did not utter.

@The Immortal Goon
Thank you for the literature references. I am going to read up on that later today, have to get my sons admitted to new schools right now.
#14822006
ingliz wrote:It is the FBI-UCR but, as the FBI definition changed in 2013 and the paper was written in 2002, it is the old definition.

“carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.”

Well that's the narrower definition and makes the stats more troubling. I take it 13% is the average for the entire country and we don't have specific numbers for different ethnic or religious groups. America has a very multi-cultural population so it would be interesting to compare the numbers.

skinster wrote: Except the part where AFAIK is trying to downplay sexual abuse/rape when it happens in non-brown countries.

If you have $32 to spend on the article I'll be happy to read it by myself and spare you my troublesome questions.

You realise that different countries have different legal standards and different legal definitions, right? I'm just trying to compare like-with-like.
#14822013
Decky wrote:The Soviets were busy forcing that mode of dress onto the whole population before the Republicans and their Jihadist buddies managed to kick the Soviets out and put the Taliban in.

No they weren't, the Soviet Union constantly counselled compromise with Islam to the Afghan Communists.
#14822015
I'd just like to point out that it's page five and there has yet to be any evidence at all submitted by the right. It's all been a nice safe place to explore their feelings while the left has had to dig up evidence to back up every single thing that is already commonly known (like the West supported anti-communists).

I bring this up because I would like this forum to be more intellectually honest and be about an exchange of ideas and citations and something scholarly to begin to get at truth.

It's worth, I think, bringing this up now and then.
#14822016
https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/ ... sam-harris

An atheist Muslim on what the left and right get wrong about Islam
"The left is wrong on Islam. The right is wrong on Muslims." — author Ali Rizvi


An interesting interview on the subject. The real leftists here have every right to complain of liberals stealing their banner, we'll just keep using the terminology as the broader masses understand them. A few quotes from the interview;

Like most issues, in the United States especially, the conversation around this issue — about Islam, Muslims, and terrorism — eventually diverged into the left and the right. You had the liberals with their view, and the conservatives with their view, and I felt both of them were really missing the mark. They were both conflating “Islam” the ideology and “Muslim” the identity. Islam is a religion; it’s a set of beliefs, a bunch of ideas in a book. It's not human. Muslims are real, living, breathing people, and to me, there's a big difference between criticizing ideas and demonizing human beings.


Sure, and there are aspects of this that can be positive. There are many of us who are atheists but retain some cultural elements of the religion. For example, I still enjoy the Eid holiday and the fast-breaking iftar feasts of Ramadan with my family. I have pleasant childhood associations and memories with these things.

This is true for other religions too. Richard Dawkins himself, who is a ... well, you don't get more atheist than Richard Dawkins. Yet he has also described himself as a cultural Christian. He even says he prefers singing the religious Christmas carols like “Silent Night” to the others, like “Jingle Bells” and “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.” I think we should be able to enjoy some of these rituals without the burden of belief.


I think the left has a blind spot when it comes to Islam and the right has a blind spot when it comes to Muslims. When Christian fundamentalists like Pat Robertson say something that's homophobic or misogynistic, people on the left descend on them like a ton of bricks. They’re very comfortable with criticizing and satirizing fundamentalist Christianity. But when it comes to Islam, which has many of the same homophobic and misogynistic teachings, they throw their hands up, back off, and say, whoa, hold on, we must respect their religion and culture.


I get that it comes from a good place. I’m a liberal myself, and I vote liberal. It’s part of our liberal conscience to protect the rights of minorities, as they should be protected. But that doesn’t mean we must protect and defend all of their beliefs as well, many of which are just as illiberal as the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists.

This is very frustrating to our liberal counterparts in Muslim-majority countries, who are fighting fundamentalist Islam the same way that liberals here fight fundamentalist Christianity, and they’re even risking their lives for it. Many have died for it. Yet they hear their liberal counterparts in the West calling their ideas “Islamophobic.” This is a devastating double standard for them.
#14822021
Ter wrote:a large proportion of the muslim millions envading Europe are not refugees

More than 80% of an estimated 1,008,616 arrivals in 2015 were fleeing persecution (49%), war (25%) and famine (8%).

economic migrants

Only 18% made the move for economic reasons.
#14822029
ingliz wrote:More than 80% of an estimated 1,008,616 arrivals in 2015 were fleeing persecution (49%), war (25%) and famine (8%).

The most recent data show that Bangladeshis are the most populous migrants entering Europe these days. It is indeed a rapidly changing scenario.

Bear in mind that the migrants are well informed of the procedures and conditions of the EU. A lot of them know what to say and they will of course not say they come for economic reasons. So I am somewhat skeptical of the data presented in the publication you cited.

I have first-hand anecdotal information about people obtaining a business visa for Europe to visit commercial exhibitions and once landed claim asylum saying they will be tortured if they are sent back.

People used to pay thousands of dollars bribes to obtain a visa for Europe and now they can enter for free. The hot meals and accommodation is waiting for them.

Lest you think ill of me, let me add that I am all in favour of helping genuine refugees but they should be returned to their home countries once the acute problems are over.
#14822032
fuser wrote:Right has become more ridiculous as if it was even possible as comrade Decky and many have pointed numerous times the right is in power almost all over Europe but they moan about left for all the problems in Europe.


Remind you of someone who used the left as a scapegoat (besides the Jews)?
#14822043
The Immortal Goon wrote:I bring this up because I would like this forum to be more intellectually honest and be about an exchange of ideas and citations and something scholarly to begin to get at truth.


Oh please. Communists are intellectually bankrupt. If they had any intellectual honesty they would dissolve their little cult.

Anyway, what I'm interested in here is whether secular regimes in the ME (of which there were many) actually achieved some lasting changes among their respective populations. Atatürk arguably did, but even there we see a backlash. Whether the communist regime in Afghanistan would have achieved it is a hypothetical question, it didn't survive long enough.
#14822063
The Immortal Goon wrote:I'd just like to point out that it's page five and there has yet to be any evidence at all submitted by the right. It's all been a nice safe place to explore their feelings while the left has had to dig up evidence to back up every single thing that is already commonly known (like the West supported anti-communists).

I bring this up because I would like this forum to be more intellectually honest and be about an exchange of ideas and citations and something scholarly to begin to get at truth.

It's worth, I think, bringing this up now and then.


Perhaps. The only valid argument that Milo actually makes is that the so called "Left" in the US and World-Wide Left are both pro-immigration. Communism and Socialism have almost always been internationalist. The current progressive-Liberals or more open minded liberals in America are also pro-immigration but just for totally separate reasons.

Also Communism/Socialism has been more open-minded and oriented on Social Issues ( Women surfage, equality of women, workers rights etc) This is also the 2nd similarity with the American "Left". It is also done, more or less for the same reasons. Though the difference between Socialists/Communists is that they have never been in to "Greening" up the world, while the current American left is in to that also. (Perhaps it was just not the time)

Do those 2 semi-similarities make the American "left" communist or socialist? I do not think so.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
Russia-Ukraine War 2022

@JohnRawls Why do you think that? If you wer[…]

Isn't oil and electricity bought and sold like ev[…]

@Potemkin I heard this song in the Plaza Grande […]

I (still) have a dream

Even with those millions though. I will not be ab[…]