People Living in Environments that Suit them would Definitely Save the Environment - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14825037
Just another deep think from Hong Wu, it gets damn hot out here sometimes. The natives don't always notice it, though.

When white people live in hot places, they need to run the AC, which as we all know is a huge villain from an environmentalist perspective.

Yet the same goes for all of the black people living in northern climes and Europe. They run the heaters non-stop. A European would put on a scarf and some earmuffs and not even think about it, they did it for thousands of years before they got heating and decided it was slightly more convenient. Heating bills might not disappear completely but they'd surely drop dramatically if cold places were populated only by people who adjust well to cold.

So here we are. It's not racist to tell white people to turn off the AC, but it is racist to tell dark people to turn off the heater? If they were consistent, environmentalists would want people of all colors to f- off to their appropriate climes, not focus on just the white people.

The way there's too many white people in everything these days, too many white people in English literature, too many white people in Medieval history, too many white people in movies about the past in white countries, it's like they just wish white people didn't exist. What kind of person enjoys trying to erase their own kind?
#14825069
Do you have any citation for any of this, or is this just a big emotional dump for your feelings?

I have only seen citations that conclude that different races actually have no real preference (1, 2). Which makes sense since human variation is only somewhere around .01%, despite people's strong feelings about social customs. Social customs seem to be the main indicator, if one grows up in the environment, one is used to it regardless of race. For instance, I would despise growing up in the Deep South, though as a white woman said in one of the scholarly articles, "I hate air conditioning. It's a damnfool invention of the Yankees. If they don't like it hot, they can move back up North where they belong."

This moves rather neatly to the main difference in environmental preference that, women tend to have a far different relationship to the environment than men; mostly that they tend to feel colder more of the time.
#14825070
Racial inequality arguments in the US should have ended with Obama's election. We have more than ample laws to prevent discrimination. All a person need do is complain and it will be addressed. The only reason for the ongoing debate is because the Democrats have no other means of support. Their loyal followers continue to believe it is 1960 so that they may continue with their feeling of superiority. Admitting it is no longer a major problem is unacceptable to both the party and it's followers. They have made it too much a part of who they are to ever admit the battle is over. It would be similar to deciding a marriage was over.
#14825087
One Degree wrote:Racial inequality arguments in the US should have ended with Obama's election. We have more than ample laws to prevent discrimination. All a person need do is complain and it will be addressed. The only reason for the ongoing debate is because the Democrats have no other means of support. Their loyal followers continue to believe it is 1960 so that they may continue with their feeling of superiority. Admitting it is no longer a major problem is unacceptable to both the party and it's followers. They have made it too much a part of who they are to ever admit the battle is over. It would be similar to deciding a marriage was over.


Cool story, Bro.

Did you happen to read how the OP was advocating segregation of the races from someone other than a Democrat?

Also, becaue citations are fun, here are a few post-1960 stratigic moves by the Republicans:



Daily Beast wrote:The Republican National Committee apparently thinks a racial attack so infamous that its originator disavowed it on his deathbed is an acceptable model for its 2016 attack ads.

On Monday morning, Sean Spicer, chief RNC spokesman, tweeted about how Republicans are launching a “Willie Horton-style attack” on Hillary Clinton’s running mate Tim Kaine to promote a new ad it debuted one day before Kaine debates Donald Trump’s running mate, Mike Pence.


Steve King wrote:This whole white people business, though, does get a little tired

I'd ask you to go back through history and figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you are talking about. Where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization?


Reuters wrote:NEW YORK (Reuters) - Supporters of U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump are more likely to describe African Americans as "criminal," "unintelligent," "lazy" and "violent" than voters who backed some Republican rivals in the primaries or who support Democratic contender Hillary Clinton, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll.

Ahead of the Nov. 8 election to replace Barack Obama, the first black U.S. president, the poll also showed significant numbers of Americans in both the Republican and Democratic parties view blacks more negatively than whites, harbor anxiety about living in diverse neighborhoods and are concerned that affirmative action policies discriminate against whites.

Republicans in the survey expressed these concerns to a greater degree than Democrats, with Trump supporters presenting the most critical views of blacks.


The fact is that the United States was a racial slave state; that retained some of those laws within living memories, and which has a culture that reverberates today. This has little to do with the Democrats or Republicans specifically. The US is not unique in this; the British press has been portraying the DUP-PowerShare as allowing drunken Irish stereotypes to take control; and the French have a deep distrust of the Algerians that they aggressively colonized.

But more to the point, again, the OP has nothing to do with your citationless rant.
#14825093
The Immortal Goon wrote:Cool story, Bro.

Did you happen to read how the OP was advocating segregation of the races from someone other than a Democrat?

Also, becaue citations are fun, here are a few post-1960 stratigic moves by the Republicans:









The fact is that the United States was a racial slave state; that retained some of those laws within living memories, and which has a culture that reverberates today. This has little to do with the Democrats or Republicans specifically. The US is not unique in this; the British press has been portraying the DUP-PowerShare as allowing drunken Irish stereotypes to take control; and the French have a deep distrust of the Algerians that they aggressively colonized.

But more to the point, again, the OP has nothing to do with your citationless rant.


Sorry, and I don't mean to be 'snippy', but I have no idea what you think your sources demonstrate. I don't mind admitting that I believe posting these types of sources is a waste of everyone's time 80% of the time, so I don't bother unless I feel it is essential. My only interest is sharing my opinions in the rare chance it will give people something to think about. You see, I am not trying to prove anything so I rarely think along the lines of evidence. I know many of you view these debates differently and therefore find my methods upsetting, but I gotta be me :D .

Edit: I view other people's posts the same way. I am seldom interested in their sources and much more interested in their insights. After all, a source is normally just someone else's opinion.
#14825096
I have no idea what HongWu was trying to say. Of course it is not true, as was pointed out, that white people are troubled by heat and black people by cold. That is just silly. Nor is air conditioning destroying the environment. That is absurd. 30% of our night time lighting gets shined up into the air. Go after that.

As for racism in the US. I need not post evidence. I have lived it. I have eaten where no black person was allowed to eat. I have shit in white's only toilets. I have stayed in whites only hotels. I have performed in auditoriums where black people had to sit in the balcony. I was called "sir" by adult black men when I was 12 years old because I was white. Don't even ask about the horror of a ni**er in the swimming pool. Hell. I even belonged to a country club that did not allow jews and damned few Catholics. I remember "no Mexicans" signs in San Diego. Millions of people alive in the US remember and even experienced these things. How many? Far more than the population of Canada remember this nonsense as just daily life. We are here to tell you about it.

So racism is not some long past event. It was institutional. It was legal. It was disgusting. And it is still around.
#14825102
Drlee wrote:I have no idea what HongWu was trying to say. Of course it is not true, as was pointed out, that white people are troubled by heat and black people by cold. That is just silly. Nor is air conditioning destroying the environment. That is absurd. 30% of our night time lighting gets shined up into the air. Go after that.

As for racism in the US. I need not post evidence. I have lived it. I have eaten where no black person was allowed to eat. I have shit in white's only toilets. I have stayed in whites only hotels. I have performed in auditoriums where black people had to sit in the balcony. I was called "sir" by adult black men when I was 12 years old because I was white. Don't even ask about the horror of a ni**er in the swimming pool. Hell. I even belonged to a country club that did not allow jews and damned few Catholics. I remember "no Mexicans" signs in San Diego. Millions of people alive in the US remember and even experienced these things. How many? Far more than the population of Canada remember this nonsense as just daily life. We are here to tell you about it.

So racism is not some long past event. It was institutional. It was legal. It was disgusting. And it is still around.


I don't disagree with anything you said, but now we do have a legal system that allows the redress of grievances. The short comings in this system are no different that the short comings all of us face in dealing with government bureaucracy. My question is, "What else is it you want done?" And I say you, because it seems mainly white people who are still outraged about race. From my perspective, all the racial rhetoric failed to invigorate the Black vote. All the post election demonstrations seemed to fail to draw large numbers of Blacks. So who is it that is still outraged and what is it they are outraged about. It would appear one Black person a year, or less, dying in a questionable police shooting is suppose to be proof of racial tension when we are talking about 320 million people. The hysteria does not match the reality. Racism is not going to totally disappear and we have done our best to address what we can.

Edit: I responded to drlee, but my comments are not directed at him.
#14825103
:lol: That shit won't save the environment. The problem isn't the AC or the heater, it's the damn petroleum companies, the weapons companies, the stupid leadership, the auto manufacturers, the luxury goods markets, the out-of-control production of agribusiness, over-consumption that is rampant in the West, and rapid industrialization happening everywhere else.

The problem has never been that individuals use too much energy and it has always been that commercial businesses exploit people's innate psychology to prefer cheap and convenient over reusable and long-lasting. It is with politicians refusing to address the issues in order to prevent controversy and strengthen their base. It is with the inability of government to regulate emissions in any effective way because of the perverse marriage between special interests and politicians in this country.

I have no problem with encouraging birth control and contraceptives to curb population growth, but over-population arguments are often fraught with thinly-veiled racism, classism, or pseudo-intellectualism.
#14825105
The OP is silly

As someone who lives in the great white north, I can tell you everyone runs heaters because failing to do so would cause your home to freeze, and electric heaters are less hassle than a house full of smoking fireplaces. If you want to advocate for environmentally friendly heat, suggest govts allow ground to air heaters as freebies.
#14825123
One Degree wrote:Sorry, and I don't mean to be 'snippy', but I have no idea what you think your sources demonstrate. I don't mind admitting that I believe posting these types of sources is a waste of everyone's time 80% of the time, so I don't bother unless I feel it is essential. My only interest is sharing my opinions in the rare chance it will give people something to think about. You see, I am not trying to prove anything so I rarely think along the lines of evidence. I know many of you view these debates differently and therefore find my methods upsetting, but I gotta be me


So you're going to assume that both:

1. Racism is no longer a problem
2. Democrats are racist and Republicans aren't

Despite the fact there's no evidence to support either of these conclusions, and they don't really stand together as points anyway. Because you feel like it and don't like evidence.

Alright then.

Yet again, an OP from a right-winger and agreement from right-winger that amounts to:

Image

Thanks for running to an on topic forum with your emotional outbursts.
#14825125
The Immortal Goon wrote:So you're going to assume that both:

1. Racism is no longer a problem
2. Democrats are racist and Republicans aren't

Despite the fact there's no evidence to support either of these conclusions, and they don't really stand together as points anyway. Because you feel like it and don't like evidence.

Alright then.

Yet again, an OP from a right-winger and agreement from right-winger that amounts to:

Image

Thanks for running to an on topic forum with your emotional outbursts.


Since I did not say either 1 or 2, then once again you seem to be letting your emotions affect your reading comprehension. That happens when you become to emotionally tied to a political ideology, so I will not take offense at you misstating my position.
#14825138
"What else is it you want done?"


1. I want our minority schools to be run with discipline and strong leadership. I want standards enforced and students expelled with vouchers if they disrupt the school.

2. I want an economic Marshall Plan for our inner cities and other poor urban areas. (Rural areas do not respond to such a strategy, sadly.)

3. I want voter suppression to end. At the point of a pike if necessary. (I'm looking at you republicans.)

4. I want gerrymandering to stop. It is racist to the core and virtually codifies racism.

5. I want to stop putting non-violent offenders in prison for a long time.

Want more?


And I say you, because it seems mainly white people who are still outraged about race. From my perspective, all the racial rhetoric failed to invigorate the Black vote. All the post election demonstrations seemed to fail to draw large numbers of Blacks.


Nonsense. Blame the victims. The republican party engaged in an OPEN campaign to suppress black votes. Start there.


So who is it that is still outraged and what is it they are outraged about. It would appear one Black person a year, or less, dying in a questionable police shooting is suppose to be proof of racial tension when we are talking about 320 million people.


You need to read the news. Besides. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that black people are unfairly target by police who routinely violate their constitutional rights. This is not even in dispute.

The hysteria does not match the reality. Racism is not going to totally disappear and we have done our best to address what we can.


More nonsense. We have not done the best we can. And now republicans want to cut the little health care that impoverished people get. They want to cut food stamps to families with children. They want to defund Headstart and childhood nutrition programs. They have virtually declared war on black people in America. And black people know it.

But you really need to start thinking of the powerlessness of someone who is in poverty, lacks a good education, lives in an area with no jobs (and not even a grocery store).

I know you are trolling. You do not misspell enough for me to believe that you actually believe what you are saying.
#14825150
@Drlee
Maybe I was trolling a little bit. I mean it is not like I did not expect you to respond with answers. :lol:
1. I want our minority schools to be run with discipline and strong leadership. I want standards enforced and students expelled with vouchers if they disrupt the school.

I agree and also agree it should be on the top of the list.
2. I want an economic Marshall Plan for our inner cities and other poor urban areas. (Rural areas do not respond to such a strategy, sadly.)

Been tried, doesn't usually work.
3. I want voter suppression to end. At the point of a pike if necessary. (I'm looking at you republicans.)

4. I want gerrymandering to stop. It is racist to the core and virtually codifies racism.

You can view this as racist if you choose, but it is actually politics. Blacks are only targeted because they live in condensed areas and support Democrats, not because they are Black.
5. I want to stop putting non-violent offenders in prison for a long time.

Once they go to prison, they are a lost cause and we should admit it. Any productive action has to be in crime prevention, not rehabilitation.
But see this is what I mean when I say 'the hysteria does not match the reality'. The problems are ones to be addressed rationally with real solutions. The issues that required protesting are pretty much resolved. Many of these cities have Black mayors and many people of all colors who want things better. We need to face the reality of most of their problems today are not due to racism. Racism exists, but it is no longer helpful to keep it in the headlines to give people an excuse not to look at other realities.

Edit: As far as the benefit cuts, the benefits are a disincentive to get a job. It does not create a rational choice. However, any cut should be offset by a jobs program. The cuts should also be earmarked for the healthy and young. For example: If you take a minimum wage job then you lose all your Medicaid coverage. Your full wages can not make up for what you have lost.
Edit 2: for clarification, I don't deny these problems are the result of past racism, but current racism is not the major barrier to improvement.
#14825204
You can view this as racist if you choose, but it is actually politics. Blacks are only targeted because they live in condensed areas and support Democrats, not because they are Black.


What an absolute load of shit. But I suppose you have just admitted that republicans are mostly committed to racist behavior and you are right. So I should thank you for this post.
#14825218
I'm not going to waste any time finding sources for things everyone knows are true when I know they'll be attacked anyway. Arguments about sources don't have a good track record against reality. And environmentalist catastrophes about global warming still haven't materialized.
#14825231
Drlee wrote:Nor is air conditioning destroying the environment. That is absurd. 30% of our night time lighting gets shined up into the air. Go after that.

Actually we've had a lot of problems with ac. We used to use ammonia as a coolant, sometimes it would leak and kill everyone in the house as they slept. Then we switched to CFCs, which burnt a hole in the ozone layer. So then we fazed them out in favour of HFCs, which are a potent greenhouse gas. Last year we organised an international treaty to switch to another set of chemicals. Add in the huge amount of electricity they consume, so large that daylight savings is becoming counter productive, and you'll conclude that light pollution is a minor problem (that we should still solve) in comparison.

Anyway I had a good chuckle at the OP who seems to have overlooked the large population of whites in Australia, S Africa, etc. The Great Barrier Reef is suffering from all the sun cream that washes over it. We should make every beach near a coral reef blacks only since whites aren't suited to that environment and cause too much harm to it. 8)

Hong Wu wrote:Arguments about sources don't have a good track record against reality. And environmentalist catastrophes about global warming still haven't materialized.

Typical politician, demands that people must die before we intervene to solve a problem.
#14825241
Drlee wrote:What an absolute load of shit. But I suppose you have just admitted that republicans are mostly committed to racist behavior and you are right. So I should thank you for this post.


Bullshit? So you think a Black neighborhood that voted Republican would still be targeted by Republicans in gerrymandering? What an irrational view. Republican equals racist? You have been reading too much liberal media.
#14825260
One Degree wrote:Bullshit? So you think a Black neighborhood that voted Republican would still be targeted by Republicans in gerrymandering? What an irrational view. Republican equals racist? You have been reading too much liberal media.


You are delusional. Do you even understand how gerrymandering works ? @Drlee is 100% correct on his analysis.

Ill give you an imaginary example of how it is being used(because both parties are guilty of this by the way):

Let's say you have a state called " Gerry ".
This state has a population of 1 000 000 people.
To get elected in to whatever position you require majority of 10 000 votes per district which adds up to 100 positions/districts.
You are currently the majority party in the state but you know that the next election cycle is not going to go good. You are projected to loose 40% to 60%.
But thank the gods, the time to rewrite the districts have come.

So the election will come soon and you have an idea how it can play out. Time to redraw those pesky lines.

You take the districts and redraw them about knowing that you will get 400 000 votes. So lets see, with totally fair vote, you are going to loose but lets say you give yourself lines that can give you 75 districts that will give you around 5.300 votes in each and your opponents 4700. That is a decent margin 53 to 47 percent. Not the most comfortable lead but seems okay. You do not care about the other districts where your opponents are going to get nearly 100% of the vote.

So now you have 75 representatives elected with 40% of the vote. Which makes you the majority party again, although you got a lot less votes. While the party that got 60%, get only 25 representatives.

This is an extreme example. When the elections are close to 50-50 then it gets even better. Even small alteration to districts can significantly change the landscape.

Obviously this system can be MASSIVELY abused based on racial, social etc lines. If you don't wan't to loose a lot of the votes by you have to campaign for some shit policy then just make 1-2-3 districts with all the people who hate that policy.

Let us say, you are a candidate that is campaigning for chopping all trees down in the districts. So what do you do ? Put all of the tree huggers in couple of districts and spread your supporters among the rest. So the notion might not be extremely popular, it will probably still pass because you just stacked all the opposition in several districts while the other 80 districts will have the vote go your way 55 to 45....
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