A Left-Libertarianism-ist Manifesto - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#14826138
http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/12/08/a- ... manifesto/

What are your thoughts on the article? Do you agree with the manifesto or do disagree with many of it? I like alot of what the article describes and talks about. However all it needs is a better name so on a side note, how about after you give your thoughts on the article why don't you think of a better name for the ideology.
#14826140
It spends a little to much time on the introduction in my opinion. Also Leftists advocate for socialism, not social democracy (heavily regulated capitalism), which seems to be what your manifesto best describes.
#14826143
@MememyselfandIJK

The manifesto does not favor heavily regulated capitalism at all. That was the entire point of the manifesto, to show the bad sides of regulations and how incentives, such as taxes, are a much better way to encourage social progress.
#14826146
I only saw like 1 section. Am I missing part of it?

Edit: Sorry, the webpage was loading slowly and I saw only the first part of it. Please disregard my earlier statement.
#14826151
@MememyselfandIJK

The article already establishes the gist of the ideology during the third section where it talks about instead forcing businesses to hire minorities, you instead make them pay a small tax every time they a non-minority. Or, as the article stated, tax businesses for every Earthling hired in order to incentivize the hiring of Martians.

From section III and onward, the manifesto runs with this idea and the article becomes much more faster paced and engaging after that point so I highly recommend that you continue reading.

EDIT: Unfortunately I posted this response before I could see your edit. Please disregard this response as well.
#14826195
Oxymandias wrote:http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/12/08/a-something-sort-of-like-left-libertarianism-ist-manifesto/

What are your thoughts on the article? Do you agree with the manifesto or do disagree with many of it? I like alot of what the article describes and talks about. However all it needs is a better name so on a side note, how about after you give your thoughts on the article why don't you think of a better name for the ideology.


It displays a thorough lack of understanding not just of incredibly basic politics, but also very basic terminology for which there is little excuse, and merely demonstrates a remarkable lack of ability to think outside Fox News/CNN/MSNBC politics. Within the first handful of paragraphs, the article refers to the left as being those who want capitalism with greater regulations. What's much worse is when it continues on to say that the left wants a social safety net, and the right doesn't. This is so astonishingly stupid I have few words. Simply because American neoliberals are blinded by short term greed and many others are politically and historically uneducated they have either forgotten why or simply don't know that right-liberals (conservatives) essentially created the model for Western social safety nets (Otto von Bismarck), ironically to cut support from the actual leftists and socialists who had the support of many in the working class, doesn't make any of those moronic statements in that lolbertarian manifesto true.
#14826231
I must admit to being turned off rather quickly by the idea that 'working' is a punishment and people should be given money and free time.
Perhaps, I will try to read further later.
#14826269
@Bulaba Jones

You seem profoundly offended by the first paragraph of the manifesto. In which case I'll inform you that the author was in fact generalizing for the sake of irony in reference to a previous article he wrote. In any case you should continue reading the article and hold your suspicion of disbelief.
#14826301
@Saeko

The author admitted he needed a better name for it other than left libertarian. Furthermore even if it did have that name, it is still a good article to read and poses very interesting ideas. If you judged an ideology by it's name, you would miss thousands of ideologies that you could potentially agree with or at least be influenced by.
#14826309
Oxymandias wrote:@Bulaba Jones

You seem profoundly offended by the first paragraph of the manifesto. In which case I'll inform you that the author was in fact generalizing for the sake of irony in reference to a previous article he wrote. In any case you should continue reading the article and hold your suspicion of disbelief.


It's a rambling rant written by someone with autism which I felt didn't deserve much of a comment. We've all seen lolbertarian diarrhea on the internet plenty of times. There's only so many times I can comment when some moron thinks raising the minimum wage is evil, socialist welfare, or portrays workers as trying to exploit their bosses. Because, you know, that's how exploitation with capitalism works: poor old captains of industry who hire people are victims who need to be protected from those money-grubbing peasants.

Isn't this the second time you've posted libertarian trash manifestos?
#14826330
@Bulaba Jones

I don't see why you are aggressive. I remember when I used to lurk here that you were far more optimistic. Now you just call anyone you disagree with autistic and disregard any ideology simply based on it's name and an ironic introduction. You generalized and skimmed through all his points and then make a judgement on them. You've closed off your mind Bulaba, and that's a bad thing.

Nowhere did he say minimum wage was evil, he offered a good reason why this "socialist welfare" works, and never portrayed workers as trying to exploit their bosses at all outside of just a hypothetical worst case scenario that he is in disbelief of. Furthermore you just took a small hypothetical worst case scenario and decided to base all of his political ideology on that without looking at what else he had to say.

Civiocracy is far from libertarian and you are aware of it. Just because the article talks about libertarianism doesn't mean that it is libertarian. Conservatism, libertarianism, liberalism are all labels that are used to provide an understanding. They mean absolutely nothing and you have failed to realize that.
#14826378
A business owner given a choice between two people and he has to pay a tax on one of them will always pick the one without the tax even if they are less qualified. I don't accept his premise.
#14826386
@One Degree

The article never said that at all. A business owner will not automatically choose the one without the tax but that a business owner would be incentivized to choose the one without the tax. As the article stated, the tax would be moderately low cost so that if businesses cannot hire minorities for the job, they just pay a relatively small tax but for people who want to save some extra money they can hire a minority. This is the same principle found in jizya, the tax for non-Muslim people in the Caliphate and based on the current religious makeup of Caliphate territories, it seems this policy is effective.
#14826393
Oxymandias wrote:@One Degree

The article never said that at all. A business owner will not automatically choose the one without the tax but that a business owner would be incentivized to choose the one without the tax. As the article stated, the tax would be moderately low cost so that if businesses cannot hire minorities for the job, they just pay a relatively small tax but for people who want to save some extra money they can hire a minority. This is the same principle found in jizya, the tax for non-Muslim people in the Caliphate and based on the current religious makeup of Caliphate territories, it seems this policy is effective.

I am suggesting it would be too effective and be even more unfair to the majority population. At least in the US, you would also be accused of racism if you were willing to pay the tax. The media would destroy your business.
How do you justify your decision?
#14826406
@One Degree

It's not if majorities won't have jobs at all. The tax isn't that much and businesses would still hire those who are the most qualified for the job. It's just that this time businesses would consider qualified people of color instead of just discarding them and try to look for white counterparts. If it's effective it would social and income equality, if it doesn't then it fails.

The tax would go to helping minority families or neighborhoods become financially and economically stable. By paying the tax you are helping minorities, not damaging them. It's a win-win situation. Even if there's a really racist business that refuses to hire people of color in order to damage them, they would at least be paying a tax that allows the government to help them despite the business's attempts.
#14826409
Oxymandias wrote:@One Degree

It's not if majorities won't have jobs at all. The tax isn't that much and businesses would still hire those who are the most qualified for the job. It's just that this time businesses would consider qualified people of color instead of just discarding them and try to look for white counterparts. If it's effective it would social and income equality, if it doesn't then it fails.

The tax would go to helping minority families or neighborhoods become financially and economically stable. By paying the tax you are helping minorities, not damaging them. It's a win-win situation. Even if there's a really racist business that refuses to hire people of color in order to damage them, they would at least be paying a tax that allows the government to help them despite the business's attempts.


I understand, but paying the tax appears to be an admission of racism. How do you justify paying more without being open to this charge?
Is It Okay To Be Stupid

Scintillating. Hindsite: Creation by the God o[…]

But labor can be sold. But when Marx talked abou[…]

Yeah it's really difficult for teenaged girls to r[…]

@Suntzu > Never has been to Tijuana >Sa[…]