There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in...
Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...
Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods
The Immortal Goon wrote:There is no real mechanism for the government to give $60,000 a year to someone forever. I would contend that this is a problem with capitalism that is not addressed in the author's proposal. He is correct in assuming that we have the resources and ability to make a society like that, but the forces of capitalism make it all but impossible.
$60k for every full-time worker might be possible, theoretically.
Oxymandias wrote:Your criticisms didn't explore the actual idea the manifesto presents. All you did criticize was filler to put something in between the actual content. Furthermore none of the things you claim he said was said. You were putting words in his mouth and when I asked for citation you refused to give me it. Criticizing this article based on one small piece of filler is like judging the Communist Manifesto based on an incorrect piece of grammar. It's blatantly ridiculous and displays a clear lack of thought put into thinking critically about the subject matter.
I gave you the opportunity to actually continue reading the article outside of the introduction however you refuse to. You continue to make false assumptions about the article even now. The biggest of these is your "poorly-written" statement. You give no examples to prove that it is poorly-written at all despite the author holding a PhD in literature and writing and many people praise his articles for their writing. Of course you would know it's well-written if you decided to actually read the goddamn article instead of continuing to throw criticisms in the dark hoping that maybe, just maybe, you could hit the target.
ingliz wrote:According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the average household income was $73,298 in 2014, the latest year for which complete data is available.
What is especially right-wing about the ideas he discussed?
Also if you had to be qualified to have a political opinion this forum wouldn't exist and democracy wouldn't exist. If you refute this by stating that voters and the people in PoFo can potentially research the topics being discussed then there's lots of evidence that shows that the author researched the topic. You literally see many links and citations in the article itself.
I recommend you continue reading it instead of being turned off by it based on the introduction or the comments here. Bulaba Jones in particular hasn't even read the article outside of the introduction and has no intention of doing so. Therefore his opinion shouldn't deter you from reading it.
A SOMETHING SORT OF LIKE LEFT-LIBERTARIANISM-IST MANIFESTO
And he didn't even call it a manifesto.
Oxymandias wrote:He didn't simply not give a reason like you said he did nor did he snootily call it welfare. It seems you just skimmed through it. Here is his proposed solution:
This is the person you claim is essentially a bleeding-heart libertarian.
And yet you refuse to mention the reason why he said the things he said. I will quote again. Note that if you actually decided to read it carefully you should know this. The guy didn't just make a claim and not give a reason for believing in that claim.
Libertarian manifesto guy wrote:But if fast food workers get $15 not because they do $15 worth of work, but because we feel sad that they’re living on too little money, then once again it’s welfare.
And once again we can give them that welfare in one of two ways. We can send them a check, or we can pressure fast food places to pay them more.
If we send people a check, it goes to everyone, whether employed or unemployed. If we pressure fast food places to pay more, then it’s only employed people – the people who need money the least – who get anything.
Furthermore he has a good point in the next paragraph. I'll italicize the part that's the most intriguing:
"If we send people a check, who gets the check is presumably determined by need. If we pressure fast food places to pay more, then who pays more is determined by media exposure and political clout. Fast food workers seem to have good union and good public visibility, so they can demand their wages get raised to $15. Garment workers aren’t as well-organized or are less sympathetic, so their wages stay at $8. It encourages a system of “squeaky wheel gets the grease” in which “squeaky” means “go on strike a lot and act miserable”."
He only used the term "Martians" because he doesn't trust his audience to think of any minority seriously
Libertarian manifesto guy wrote:There are other problems as well. Some jobs may have legitimate reasons not to hire Martians – maybe Martians make lousy pilots because their single lidless eye gives them terrible depth perception. Certainly a Martian actor is unqualified to play Abraham Lincoln in a historical biopic. One could offer to let these jobs apply for exemptions, but this means a costly bureaucratic process, and is likely to end with large companies with good lawyers obtaining the exemptions, small companies with poor lawyers not obtaining the exemptions, and no concern about fairness to Martians in any case.
And he didn't even call it a manifesto.
You're just grasping for straws.
1. Martians aren't supposed to represent any specific minority. That's why he used Martians as an example. Stop trying to fit Martians into an allegory. If you do that then you missed the point of using Martians in the first place. Therefore you failed reading comprehension.
2. He stated standard right-wing/left-wing points not because he agrees with them but because he's trying to sell the idea to an audience. By saying this he's telling people won't hire certain minorities for jobs that they aren't horrible evil monsters and tried to rationalize their potential actions. This is standard practice in policy making everywhere.
ISIS =/= Caliphate from the 7th to 12th century. Get your facts straight goddamnit. I gave you a full quote proving you wrong. Stop saying he drew from ISIS as inspiration. You are misinforming everyone here. Stop it. Or do you think that all Caliphates are ISIS?
Libertarian manifesto guy wrote:Consider the Islamic Caliphate (7th – 12th century AD). Their modus operandi was to march into a new territory, tell the non-Muslims there that they were perfectly welcome to continue to practice their old religion as long as they paid a tax, and if they ever wanted to save those couple shekels or dinars or whatever, they could also convert to Islam – but no pressure. The current religious makeup of the Caliphate territory (Northern Africa and the Middle East through Iran and Pakistan) should be taken as some evidence of the effectiveness of this policy.
Title =/= he means it's a manifesto.
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