On Extremism - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Lexington
#14835026
A few days ago an extremist ran a car into a crowd, injuring many and killing one. In America.

Now a few days before that I was conversing with a self-professed fascist in the Gorkiy thread about whether or not they would pull the trigger if the gun was pointed to my head in the glorious revolution to come. It turns out "hesitation" is the thing.

Now the funny thing is that you can LARP online about fascism and communism and all varieties of extremism but sometimes someone takes you seriously. And then they run their car into a crowd and kill people because they actually think they're carrying out the glorious extremist revolution.

So do you see the point here, about the seriousness of the thing? I realize it's easy to complain and perhaps march somewhere but when you use violent rhetoric on the internet or in real life sometimes it inspires someone to actually do the thing you are unwilling to do.

And then people die. You've got blood on your hands.
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By MB.
#14835032
Fascists need ]to convince themselves of the legitimacy of their beliefs.

This process basically involves two components:

1) building up self righteous anger over nothing, usually some conspiracy about Zionists, communists, or immigrants, whatever.

and

2) convincing yourself that human society is exactly like the the Darwinian struggle for survival of the fittest.

Since both of these premises are really the result of the individual's subjective biases and have no basis in reality, it suddenly becomes crystal clear why fascists often take extreme measures to achieve their goals.

It's possible to justify anything if you believe in both premises simultaneously, ie,

"The jewish globalists control the world and are trying to destroy the white race! Just like in the social darwinist survival of the fittest!"

A double-whammy of sophistry is created that dumb people naturally latch onto to provide self-validating confirmation of their own personal "struggle".

I would challenge some fascists cowards to debate me on this, but they literally will not, not matter how many times I present these arguments. Probably because, deep down inside, they know their beliefs are all sophistry, but can't quite admit it to themselves. No wonder they commit random acts of violence.

As Christopher Hitchens basically proves in this interview with a disturbing character who shockingly resembles the user Dave from PoFo, fascist white supremacists invariably just end up hating themselves. Without fail they end up blaming white "race traitors" for all their problems, isolating themselves into tiny cliques of "purists", who then end up fighting with eachother over whose racists extremists sophistry ideology represents the "true" version...


(interesting to note, in this video, Hitchens also gets Tom Metzger to state that he believes whites are actaully a separate species that evolved differently than everyone else. This goes back to my second point about how important a misunderstanding of darwinism is for these people.

You can see that nothing has really changed in 30 years, here's Richard Spencer doing exactly the same thing...

User avatar
By One Degree
#14835041
Why do you only apply it to fascists? Both your criteria are being adopted as truth by growing numbers on both sides. Neither fascists or anyone else can work themselves up that much without an opposite to be the enemy.
Both sides are encouraging this insanity.
User avatar
By Lexington
#14835042
One Degree wrote:Why do you only apply it to fascists?


Lexington wrote:Now the funny thing is that you can LARP online about fascism and communism and all varieties of extremism


reading is hard.
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By MB.
#14835043
Why do you feel it is necessary to interject by adding "AND commies" to everything? In this case the topic was specifically about the alleged fascist who committed the car-ramming act of violence, not the brawling anti-fascists or whatever.

I don't feel its necessary to address acts of violence by communists (there are many historical examples, of course) since that's literally not the subject of this particular thread, or at least, of the OP's message. I suppose communist violence could be addressed, if you wanted.

I've presented my explanation for radical right-wing violence, I don't think it applies to communists who have a different ideology.
Why not take a stab at addressing that, yourself?
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By One Degree
#14835044
I am lost. My post was directed to MB
@MB. I only see 5 posts in this thread. :?:

Edit: My point is I don't see it limited to the car.
User avatar
By MB.
#14835046
One Degree wrote:Edit: My point is I don't see it limited to the car.


The only fatality (which I find incredible since there were so many armed people at this event) was from the car ramming incident, however.

I think there is something to be said about the American political sphere being highly toxic right now, and it seems to me that people for some reason enjoy going out an brawling, but not really fighting.

The fact that the car ramming incident produced the only real fatality leads me to believe the violence is highly ritualized in nature, kind of like Aztec "wars"
By foxdemon
#14835057
Lexington wrote:A few days ago an extremist ran a car into a crowd, injuring many and killing one. In America.

Now a few days before that I was conversing with a self-professed fascist in the Gorkiy thread about whether or not they would pull the trigger if the gun was pointed to my head in the glorious revolution to come. It turns out "hesitation" is the thing.

Now the funny thing is that you can LARP online about fascism and communism and all varieties of extremism but sometimes someone takes you seriously. And then they run their car into a crowd and kill people because they actually think they're carrying out the glorious extremist revolution.

So do you see the point here, about the seriousness of the thing? I realize it's easy to complain and perhaps march somewhere but when you use violent rhetoric on the internet or in real life sometimes it inspires someone to actually do the thing you are unwilling to do.

And then people die. You've got blood on your hands.



I think Rei and Far Right Sage did a remarkable job raising the credibility of fascism on POFO. I got the impression both of them would not have had a problem following through on their beliefs. Curiously, Rei on twitter thinks the Antifa is a politically useful tool for crushing the fascists. Clearly they aren't the right sort of fascists in her opinion.


Though there doesn't seem to be anyone currently visiting POFO who can argue credibility for fascism, there does seem to be some very intelligent people behind the Alt-Right. They have cleverly exploited memes and social media. Furthermore, they have targeted liberal progressive weak spots, like freedom of speech. So there is someone out there who knows what they are doing.


But let's not lose sight of the fact that it is rising to equality and negative perceptions of future prospects that drives people to this extreme movement. Extremism can only take hold when people become desperate. The Nazi Party in Germany only got into power due to the social, economic and political 'dog's breakfast' that was the Weimar Republic.
User avatar
By Bulaba Jones
#14835060
Lexington wrote:A few days ago an extremist ran a car into a crowd, injuring many and killing one. In America.

Now a few days before that I was conversing with a self-professed fascist in the Gorkiy thread about whether or not they would pull the trigger if the gun was pointed to my head in the glorious revolution to come. It turns out "hesitation" is the thing.

Now the funny thing is that you can LARP online about fascism and communism and all varieties of extremism but sometimes someone takes you seriously. And then they run their car into a crowd and kill people because they actually think they're carrying out the glorious extremist revolution.

So do you see the point here, about the seriousness of the thing? I realize it's easy to complain and perhaps march somewhere but when you use violent rhetoric on the internet or in real life sometimes it inspires someone to actually do the thing you are unwilling to do.

And then people die. You've got blood on your hands.


I know this isn't going to sound very pleasant, and this might come across as patronizing (this isn't my intent), but here is a difficult truth: fascists and communists do not have a monopoly on extremism, political violence, carnage, etc. People who adhere to liberal democracy are also extremists.

I'm sure that might sound odd to you. It might sound like I'm excusing or defending certain kinds of violence. To explain: whenever wars are waged, it is a surety that civilians will be either killed outright, starved, maimed, or displaced and vulnerable to people who prey on defenseless and desperate people.

And what of economic extremism? The idea that a privileged few should be allowed to control an unimaginable excess of wealth and material goods while the extreme majority have very little, and are generally kept in a great deal of debt, is extremism. Whether you support inequality and the institutionalization of poverty and debt which capitalism produces, it is extreme for an extreme few to control almost all the wealth and goods on Earth; how often do people keep bringing up economic inequality and the extreme class divide, after all?

My point is that blood is on everyone's hands. The history of liberalism is incredibly bloody, and whenever you have supported any sort of military action of any kind, you ought to know that you have indirectly sanctioned the killing of untold women and children.

Again, I'm not trying to nay-say and you know me well enough to know that I have absolutely no interest in obnoxious, meaningless contrariness some of the posters here engage in, much less towards you.
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By Lexington
#14835081
Bulaba Jones wrote:I know this isn't going to sound very pleasant, and this might come across as patronizing (this isn't my intent), but here is a difficult truth: fascists and communists do not have a monopoly on extremism, political violence, carnage, etc. People who adhere to liberal democracy are also extremists.


How many liberals have rammed a car into a crowd recently into a leftist protest in America or massacred a black church congregation?

Bulaba Jones wrote:I'm sure that might sound odd to you. It might sound like I'm excusing or defending certain kinds of violence. To explain: whenever wars are waged, it is a surety that civilians will be either killed outright, starved, maimed, or displaced and vulnerable to people who prey on defenseless and desperate people.


I am talking about what is happening in our own country.

If the far left or the far right want revolution they must own the violence that it means. It means destruction and bloodshed. I want extremists to own that fact. They want it here. They might LARP on the internet but someone will actually pick up keys in his truck and drive through a crowd just like an ISIS asshole would.

I am entirely conscious of the fact that the United States has fought wars abroad - you know my connections with friends and family who have been in Iraq and Afghanistan. We can discuss that separately.

Bulaba Jones wrote:And what of economic extremism? The idea that a privileged few should be allowed to control an unimaginable excess of wealth and material goods while the extreme majority have very little, and are generally kept in a great deal of debt, is extremism. Whether you support inequality and the institutionalization of poverty and debt which capitalism produces, it is extreme for an extreme few to control almost all the wealth and goods on Earth; how often do people keep bringing up economic inequality and the extreme class divide, after all?


Who are you going to shoot at?

Bulaba Jones wrote:My point is that blood is on everyone's hands. The history of liberalism is incredibly bloody, and whenever you have supported any sort of military action of any kind, you ought to know that you have indirectly sanctioned the killing of untold women and children.


Who are you going to shoot at?

Or which crowd will you drive a car through?

Like you can't just say "I'm angry about these things, and I don't like how liberalism has treated me" you have to make a choice. You either function within the liberal system or you are complicit with the guy driving that car that killed someone in Charlottesville.

Or you're just nothing, I guess.

I like you, but I'm just tired of this fucking bullshit. Someone is dead now because of this joke and I'm tired of it.
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By Igor Antunov
#14835083
A few days ago an extremist ran a car into a crowd, injuring many and killing one. In America.


He killed another extremist.

This happens every month in Europe. Except unsuspecting civilians out in the markets die. But I digress, of course only white people can be extremists.
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By Lexington
#14835084
Igor Antunov wrote:He killed another extremist.

This happens every month in Europe. Except unsuspecting civilians out in the markets die. But I digress, of course only white people can be extremists.


Grand. How do you feel about this one, mr "not alt-right"?
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By Igor Antunov
#14835085
No I agree. I mean, what's next!? Taking down multiple cops in the street with an assault rifle? These white extremists are dangerous with a capital D.
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By Lexington
#14835088
Igor Antunov wrote:No I agree. I mean, what's next!? Taking down multiple cops in the street with an assault rifle. These white extremists are dangerous with a capital D.


Yes, of course, mr "not alt-right". Where are those bullets pointed with those assault rifles in your internet fantasy that inspires actual terrorists?
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By Zagadka
#14835095
Yea, the righties are always provoked by someone being a different race or sexual orientation or believing they are a sovereign nation or Bill Clinton is going to militarize everything with FEMA or some nonsense (or someone is going to take down a statue)
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By Hong Wu
#14835096
The most recent right wing event was a guy previously diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and that was the first one in a long time, whereas we are seeing alt-left or Islamist violence against police, statues, peaceful protesters, random conservative-looking people or just random people almost daily.
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By Igor Antunov
#14835103
Let's be a little more honest here. Most recently a particularly unstable member of the right was provoked by bat wielding hooligans. Tomorrow? Who knows. But expect responses and reactions every once in a while. Extremists invariably respond to other extremists. They feed off each others actions.
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