Is the "Alt-Left" Hurting the Republicans, or the Democrats? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#14838896
We all know about the new war of morality the "alt-left" is waging.
And let's make it clear, I don't mean your garden variety lefty. I mean the angry people who figure they can tell anyone what they can and cannot think...or say. The Politically Correct Warriors who see Nazis everywhere, and can't stop crying their hearts out over the last presidential election results. And I also mean those who may or may not exist, although I find I suspect they do exist, who see a new social dynamic happening, and would take full advantage of it. CNN, ANTIFA, BLM, and the like.

What exactly do these people stand for? Who's "side" are they on?

One of the main draws Trumpy has, is his obviously low opinion of the Politically Correct movement and the establishment..."The Machine". His rebellion against "The Machine", even though he is actually an architect of said "Machine", tells Americans and the world, "Ya I helped make this Machine, but it's gotten sick and I'm powerful enough to take it to the mats." First of all, I doubt very much that Donny is anywhere near powerful enough to fight "The Machine". But he's presented middle America with a persona that carries itself as if it can. And that "hope", is all his supporters need right now. Similar, in a way, to the "HOPE" slogan the Obama campaign used so cleverly.

So this "alt-left" movement continuously gets handed bonus points, by the "alt-right" continuously holding generally racist rallies. Perfect opportunities to exemplify the unity and multiculturalism that these people profess to hold dear. AND THEY KEEP BLOWING IT!!

So whatdya think?
Are these people hurting the right, or the left, politically?

I guess you all know my opinion...
Image

What's yours?
#14838898
They are definitely helping the left, but the left is beyond hope. They also help the right see the danger. Minority rights is an emotion based agenda. The more you rile them up the more they will mindlessly support anything they are told. The left is totally dead however because they have gone to the far right. The only question remaining is if their emotional based violence can allow them to turn the US seriously Totalitarian. Conservatives are mostly reason based and do not have the emotional investment needed to physically combat them.
We are at a very pivotal point. I don't know which way it will go, and that will determine who the violent left helped the most.
#14838920
One Degree wrote:They are definitely helping the left, but the left is beyond hope. They also help the right see the danger. Minority rights is an emotion based agenda. The more you rile them up the more they will mindlessly support anything they are told. The left is totally dead however because they have gone to the far right. The only question remaining is if their emotional based violence can allow them to turn the US seriously Totalitarian. Conservatives are mostly reason based and do not have the emotional investment needed to physically combat them.
We are at a very pivotal point. I don't know which way it will go, and that will determine who the violent left helped the most.

Today Pelosi proved to me that she's actually more than a stereotypical California Face-Lift, by saying that the Antifa crowd need to cool their jets. It looks like she can see the writing on the wall. (and so you know...I'm going through great pains right now to not make a crack about "writing on the wall") I actually think the...what shall we call them...since some of our learned colleagues refute the label of "alt-left"...so what..."thought police"? OK TP it is then...TP is destroying the Democratic brand with centrists. Think about it...
100 voters are in a room. 25 of them will vote for 1 side, and 25 of them will vote for the other side. The remaining 50, hold the balance of power. I think that, as these 50 people find out what exactly has and is going on, they are beginning to see a pattern. Whackey extreme right holds rally. Whacky extreme left crashes the party and starts a fight with everyone...including the police.

Ya know...it occurs to me right about now, that someone like Bernie Sanders might actually run as an Independent and win. I miss ol' Bernie. He was the only rational one of the bunch.
#14838979
I think they define "alt-left" as basically, "SJW + Antifa", or "whatever is convenient at the moment to lump into a group" so whatever. They seem to take glee when people protest to being called alt-left.

Anyway, Chomsky wrote that these idiots are just giving fuel to the fire for both the actual alt-right and the regular right drooling for a chance to shit on liberalism in general, and I have to agree with him. They are doing nothing good for anyone, especially Antifa, who basically shit on liberalism and go full bore communist then provoke fights they can't win because they are mostly college students in masks throwing things.
#14838988
I don't think either side is making themselves look good. As a rule taking a violent and confrontational approach isn't going to create an impression of those groups being reasonable, responsible people. It isn't going to win them sympathy. Both sides are doing a fine job of losing the war for credibility. It is just a case of arguing who looks worse at this point.

But not to worry. There are the generals. I guess they will move in when the warring factions have finally alienated the middle ground and the generals get the popular support they need before being able to take action.

As the old saying goes: "A pox on both their houses".
#14839064
Zagadka wrote:I think they define "alt-left" as basically, "SJW + Antifa", or "whatever is convenient at the moment to lump into a group" so whatever. They seem to take glee when people protest to being called alt-left.


So the Democrats, the oldest existing political party in the world and the mammoth voting machine that took more votes than any other party in the last election is, "alternative,' somehow?

I get that the rightwingers can wallow in ignorance, but this is too much :lol:

Anyway, Chomsky wrote that these idiots are just giving fuel to the fire for both the actual alt-right and the regular right drooling for a chance to shit on liberalism in general, and I have to agree with him. They are doing nothing good for anyone, especially Antifa, who basically shit on liberalism and go full bore communist then provoke fights they can't win because they are mostly college students in masks throwing things.


This is true. I find it clear hat the rise of anarchist and its ideology on the far left has to do with the systematic destruction of Marxism.

Marxists have always been worried about class unity and mass movements, anarchists with showing up and breakin' stuff.

It is why the Fred Hampton, who went to Hillbillies and Latinos to build a class solidarity based upon Marxist principles against their mutual exploiters--and who succeeded in building these connections--was murdered by the FBI.

While Eldridge Cleaver, who wanted to ignore the community base and just start blowing stuff up, was not only left alive, but split the party, helped end the movement, and then became a conservative Republican.

COINTELPRO wasn't full of idiots. The legacy still exists: the erratic physical force jerks still exist, and any attempt to build a smarter and more effective movement on the left is quickly subdued.

A parallel example from Ireland:

James Connolly wrote:It may be interesting, then, to place before our readers the Socialist Republican conception of the functions and uses of physical force in a popular movement. We neither exalt it into a principle nor repudiate it as something not to be thought of. Our position towards it is that the use or non-use of force for the realisation of the ideas of progress always has been and always will be determined by the attitude, not of the party of progress, but of the governing class opposed to that party. If the time should arrive when the party of progress finds its way to freedom barred by the stubborn greed of a possessing class entrenched behind the barriers of law and order; if the party of progress has indoctrinated the people at large with the new revolutionary conception of society and is therefore representative of the will of a majority of the nation, if it has exhausted all the peaceful means at its disposal for the purpose of demonstrating to the people and their enemies that the new revolutionary ideas do possess the suffrage of the majority; then, but not till then, the party which represents the revolutionary idea is justified in taking steps to assume the powers of government, and in using the weapons of force to dislodge the usurping class or government in possession, and treating its members and supporters as usurpers and rebels against the constituted authorities always have been created. In other words, Socialists believe that the question of force is of very minor importance; the really important question is of the principles upon which is based the movement that may or may not need the use of force to realise its object.

Here, then, is the immense difference between the Socialist Republicans and our friends the physical force men. The latter, by stifling all discussions of principles, earn the passive and fleeting commendation of the unthinking multitude; the former, by insisting upon a thorough understanding of their basic principles, do not so readily attract the multitude, but do attract and hold the more thoughtful amongst them. It is the difference betwixt a mob in revolt and an army in preparation. The mob who cheer a speaker referring to the hopes of a physical force movement would, in the very hour of apparent success, be utterly disorganised and divided by the passage through the British Legislature of any trumpery Home Rule Bill. The army of class-conscious workers organising under the banner of the Socialist Republican Party, strong in their knowledge of economic truth and firmly grounded in their revolutionary principles, would remain entirely unaffected by any such manoeuvre and, knowing it would not change their position as a subject class, would still press forward, resolute and undivided, with their faces set towards their only hope of emancipation – the complete control by the working-class democracy of all the powers of National Government.
#14839072
Zagadka wrote:I think they define "alt-left" as basically, "SJW + Antifa", or "whatever is convenient at the moment to lump into a group" so whatever. They seem to take glee when people protest to being called alt-left.

Anyway, Chomsky wrote that these idiots are just giving fuel to the fire for both the actual alt-right and the regular right drooling for a chance to shit on liberalism in general, and I have to agree with him. They are doing nothing good for anyone, especially Antifa, who basically shit on liberalism and go full bore communist then provoke fights they can't win because they are mostly college students in masks throwing things.


I agree with this and it baffles me why the Democrats are so slow to condemn Antifa and these violent protesters. Are they afraid?
#14839082
There is no real alt-left.

This is because there is one important qualitative difference between the left and the right: the right makes money off saying outrageously racist and bigoted crap.

A right winger can actually make decent money by saying vile things about minorities. People will send them money and support their organisations and defend them. The left has no comparable industry of hate.

The alt-right are the consumers and producers of this hate and support it economically. This same thing does not happen on the left. You cannot make a lot of money supporting trans rights or not being racist.
#14839203
Alliance for Global Justice, Refuse Fascism, the Tides Foundation and billionaire George Soros fund Antifa.
Alex Jones begs for cash and sells crap on his web shows to finance InfoWars.

They all have financing POD...

And we do need to be clear about something.
"Hate" is not something exclusive to the right or the left.
It's sort of a multi-spectral thing.
#14839207
Buzz62 wrote:Alliance for Global Justice, Refuse Fascism, the Tides Foundation and billionaire George Soros fund Antifa.


Provide evidence for this claim.

Alex Jones begs for cash and sells crap on his web shows to finance InfoWars.


Yes, far right and conservative pundits all make money off their shows. How many far left and progressive shows do the same?

They all have financing POD...

And we do need to be clear about something.
"Hate" is not something exclusive to the right or the left.
It's sort of a multi-spectral thing.


Okay. Name one far left pundit who makes a living off spewing hateful rhetoric.
#14839277
The Immortal Goon wrote:So the Democrats, the oldest existing political party in the world and the mammoth voting machine that took more votes than any other party in the last election is, "alternative,' somehow?

Like all late 90s music was alternative, yea.

The DNC has the structural integrity of wet tissue paper, and I would not say that it encompasses most of the left. It is just what is left on the table.

We really run into problems with the term "alt left"... "alt right" exists because is was defined by the alt-right to specifically define a set of beliefs. "Alt-left" was just made up to regroup people (from center-left to Antifa) and dismiss their claims.
#14839299
Buzz62 wrote:So whatdya think?
Are these people hurting the right, or the left, politically?

I think it's clear that they are hurting the left. I think Pelosi chimed in, because those of us who think much of this was staged are more or less right about it. Had they not gotten violent in confrontations with the Unite the Right crowd, it's very likely there would be no injuries and no death. For people who were pushing for counter protests, I think they are feeling bad that they got someone killed.

However, I think there is a bigger problem they are facing, and that is that they are in a situation where they are basically losing the white vote, and Antifa and BLM are counterproductive in getting them back.

One Degree wrote:They are definitely helping the left, but the left is beyond hope.

I don't agree, but for one reason only: Trump. He's the wildcard. Paul Ryan will play the left's game and condemn only the neo-Nazis, KKK, white supremacist types; yet, he won't condemn BLM (cop killers) and Antifa (violent shit disturbers). Trump wins that game every time, because he confronts the establishment, and the establishment can't take it. The more they lie and twist his words, the more they damage their own credibility. More than 60% of the country now think the media is full of shit.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The left has no comparable industry of hate.

They hate whites, white men in particular, Christians, Republicans, women who aren't Democrats, gays who are not Democrats, blacks who are not Democrats (unless they are Black Panthers), and so forth. They spew their crap constantly. Just because they don't think it's hate doesn't mean that the foregoing groups don't see it that way.

Buzz62 wrote:Alliance for Global Justice, Refuse Fascism, the Tides Foundation and billionaire George Soros fund Antifa.

They are obviously professional protesters. After the accident, the protesters were calling "medic!" They had their own medics on hand, because they were anticipating getting violent. Americans use the term "paramedic" in a civilian context. Generally, they only use the term "medic" in the military. So it's clear Antifa has a militant mindset.
#14839355
Pants-of-dog wrote:Provide evidence for this claim.

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/think-co ... -birthday/

Maybe the alt-lefties aren't sharp enough to make money on their own. Maybe they are so dull and incapable, that they have to rely on hand-outs by Soros and company.

And then there's the celebrities who bleed all over the internet for Muslim Terrorist Refugees. Maybe they should do more than speak empty words, if they really believe what they say, and invite a whole bunch of these Refugees to live with them in their lavish palaces?
In fact POD, Canada has a Refugee Sponsorship Program. You should sponsor a bunch of these refugees and have them live with you and your family, if you feel so strongly about this.
#14839367
Buzz62 wrote:http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/think-co ... -birthday/


Haha. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So the best source you can come up with is an opinion piece from a Christian group that believes the end of the world is coming.

That was hilarious! I rest my case.

Maybe the alt-lefties aren't sharp enough to make money on their own. Maybe they are so dull and incapable, that they have to rely on hand-outs by Soros and company.


Or maybe leftists and progressives do not spend money supporting hate like the right does.

And then there's the celebrities who bleed all over the internet for Muslim Terrorist Refugees. Maybe they should do more than speak empty words, if they really believe what they say, and invite a whole bunch of these Refugees to live with them in their lavish palaces?


So your response to my claim about how the right has commercialised hatred is to discuss celebrities? Imma take this as a concession of defeat.

In fact POD, Canada has a Refugee Sponsorship Program. You should sponsor a bunch of these refugees and have them live with you and your family, if you feel so strongly about this.


I have done this. Does this mean I am right that the alt left does not exist because there is no left wing pundit selling hatred?
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 10
Is It Okay To Be Stupid

Scintillating. Hindsite: Creation by the God o[…]

But labor can be sold. But when Marx talked abou[…]

Yeah it's really difficult for teenaged girls to r[…]

@Suntzu > Never has been to Tijuana >Sa[…]