Noam Chomsky on the Crisis of Immigration - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14844364
mikema63 wrote:You have to at least acknowledge how someone like me, reading you simply reject any evidence or scholarship that isn't in line with your views as corporate propaganda, would think this a really dangerous way to think about the world or judge information or evidence.


Except that's not what I'm doing. There's always dueling experts on any issue so all my views are backed up by scholarship that is every bit as valid as the scholarship you rely on. The difference is that the scholarship I base my views on is in line with longstanding well accepted principles within the various disciplines and more importantly it accurately reflects the experienced reality of the people affected by these issues. I don't have to base my worldview on the output of establishment apologists because I'm not committed to or invested in the establishment status quo.
#14844393
Zagadka wrote:"Damn snowflake SJWs always complaining about being discriminated against! HEY YOU'RE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ME!"

More evidence of Racism against white people on CNN.

CNN Outfront with Erin Burnett, Political Commentator and Conservative Radio Host Ben Ferguson and Vice Mayor of Charlottesville, Virginia Wes Bellamy got into an unbelievable heated conversation about President Trump's failure to denounce or condemn the Charlottesville, Virginia situation saying "fine People on both sides and Many sides are to be blamed for the situation.

#14844483
There's always dueling experts on any issue so all my views are backed up by scholarship that is every bit as valid as the scholarship you rely on.


Except you didn't claim mine was valid and then debate methodologies and evidence. You claimed that they were propaganda and dismissed them entirely. Which not incidentally is the same thing creationist and climate deniers do. They don't argue from evidence they are guess from a presuppositions that all evidence that is contrary to their viewpoint must automatically be false.

I am more than happy to read your studies and evidence, and I am perfectly aware that Africa has many systemic problems and corporations definitely contribute. I don't believe corporations are a universal good. You seem to believe they are a universal evil and a pernicious conspiratorial one at that.

The difference is that the scholarship I base my views on is in line with longstanding well accepted principles within the various disciplines and more importantly it accurately reflects the experienced reality of the people affected by these issues.


Translated to, my scholarship agrees with my priors and yours doesn't. Since my priors are absolutely unassailable any evidence to the contrary is obviously false propaganda.

I don't have to base my worldview on the output of establishment apologists because I'm not committed to or invested in the establishment status quo.


I don't have to support my views on all available evidence fairly considered. Because I'm already right and thus any study that dissagrees with me is just a pernicious attempt to maintain the status quo.
#14844513
In theory black Africans should produce the smartest people. The group who has the greatest range of genetic diversity is sub Saharan Africans. Therefore they should have the most gifted people in terms of intellect from birth. They can't get away with pretending they are dumber than everyone else.


The genetic diversity among sub-Saharan Africans is actually low and their Y-DNA haplogroups are confined to A, B and E, meaning that they only have three paternal ancestral lineages. Afro-Asiatic Africans in East Africa are not really Africans genetically and their main haplogroups are J (19.5%) and R1b (20.8%), which are also common among Europeans, which may be why the average sub-Saharan African’s IQ is lower than an East African’s IQ. China is currently building the East Africa regional railway and they picked the right region to develop its economy.

#14844616
mikema63 wrote:For what it's worth there are positive signs of economic development in Africa. It's average growth is about 5% with countries like Ethiopia growing at 10% GDP.

Some consider it one of the great successes of Western foreign aid, development aid, and international institutions. Economic development in Africa was considered a priority of our foreign policy under the Obama administration.

Many would probably argue that it's other factors that have helped Africa, China has also targeted Africa for development.

For what it's worth to point out pew polling shows that Africa is a majorly pro us region that views the us, foreign aid, and American "soft power" as overwhelmingly positive. Which doesn't say we actually helped but at least suggests that Africans think we have.


Some background on population growth in Africa:

http://www.un.org/popin/icpd/conference/bkg/pop.html


And the global political-economy of land purchasing. Also how poor farmers are being driven off their land. It's about water and food security for rich countries. But those rich countries increasing are ME gulf states and East Asian states rather than the traditional Western 'rich countries' Noam claims are responsible.

https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2011/07/in-rush-for-land-is-it-all-about-water/

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/china-is-buying-land-in-africa-and-south-america-to-ensure-its-food-supply/

http://newafricanmagazine.com/sudan-land-grabbing-and-displacement/


I am particularly impressed with S Korea's attempt to buy half of Madagascar's agricultural land.

So the new rich countries, and the local nation elites who get rich out of it, are reorganising agriculture in Africa and indeed South America to secure their own nations' future in an over populated world. A side effect is creating a large group of despossed, many of whom migrate to Europe and N America. In other words, the 'rich countries' Noam has in mind are being used as a dumping ground for people who would otherwise cause problems for the new rich countries investments.

We live at the end of the Vasco De Gama era. Some light reading:
https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/end-vasco-da-gama-era

Increasing it will be Asian countries who call the shots. Those with the money are the ones who get to have the say. Or in vulgar terms: "money talks and shit walks". Those countries won't accept displaced people. Rather it is Europe and N America who will be expected to soak up what could possibly be 100's of millions of uneducated and not particularly lawful people, with all the economic, social and political costs that involves. While Asia sits back and continues to grow powerful.

The sort of moralism Noam is advocating is principled but imprudent. The 21st century is going to be a very nasty century due largely to over population and environmental decline and the intense competition that will result. Westerners don't know what's about to hit them.
#14844637
foxdemon wrote:In theory black Africans should produce the smartest people. The group who has the greatest range of genetic diversity is sub Saharan Africans. Therefore they should have the most gifted people in terms of intellect from birth. They can't get away with pretending they are dumber than everyone else.

I am still not convinced that black people are more intelligent than white people. Perhaps, more athletic in some ways, but not more intelligent.
#14844656
mikema63 wrote:100% totally not racist at all. :|

What's "racist" about it mike?
We are debating the development and intellect of Africans...aren't we?
Is it "intelligent" for African leaders to watch on as people starve like this, so they can live in opulence?
Or are you just having a "knee-jerk", Antifa-like moment... :roll:
#14844661
Buzz62 wrote:What's "racist" about it mike?


It perpetuates a stereotype about how dumb blacks are and also suggests that famine in Africa is due to said stupidity.

We are debating the development and intellect of Africans...aren't we?
Is it "intelligent" for African leaders to watch on as people starve like this, so they can live in opulence?


If they get rich by starving their populace, then it is intelligent, if we look only at the selfish gains by the leader. The same could be said for capitalists that support global economic inequality.

Or are you just having a "knee-jerk", Antifa-like moment... :roll:


Or perhaps you are having a knee jerk Nazi-like moment.
#14844664
I see. Well thankfully, Mikie, YOU and your whining and howling, do not constitute anything of value.
You oppose the First Amendment, you support terrorists, and you make dangerous assumptions.
Not only that, but you defend the very person who used the DNC to CHEAT in the Dumbocratic primaries.
So what does that make you Mikie? Relevant??? :roll:
#14844665
Pants-of-dog wrote:It perpetuates a stereotype about how dumb blacks are and also suggests that famine in Africa is due to said stupidity.

Oh...so you say its intelligent to let your people starve? OK...

Pants-of-dog wrote:If they get rich by starving their populace, then it is intelligent, if we look only at the selfish gains by the leader. The same could be said for capitalists that support global economic inequality.

Yup. You actually think its an exhibition of intellect, to starve your own people.
Well done POD. That's...sick.
#14844668
I see. Well thankfully, Mikie, YOU and your whining and howling, do not constitute anything of value.
You oppose the First Amendment, you support terrorists, and you make dangerous assumptions.
Not only that, but you defend the very person who used the DNC to CHEAT in the Dumbocratic primaries.
So what does that make you Mikie? Relevant???


When racists say things like this about me it reassures me that I'm not crazy. :lol:
#14844669
foxdemon wrote:[youtube]FPicR5Kz6uQ[/youtube]

Noam has his say on immigration and takes a critical position on 'rich countries'. Is it the case that these 'rich countries' are responsible for immigration from the 'global south'? He describes the immigration crisis in terms of a'moral crisis of the West'. Is Noam correct?

He mentions nothing about high rates of population growth and low rates of economic growth in the 'global south'. Nor does anyone at the UN Universtity at which his speech was presented. He also misrepresents Japan. Noah's understanding of the Far East actually isn't that good. East Asia has managed to keep population growth at least close to economic growth. Those countries that have done best in Asia are the ones which economic growth outpaced population growth. Note: they started from the same position as Africa and the ME and faced the same imperialism but still managed to thrive.

He does present a weak arguement that Africa was poised to develop as Japan did, but as I pointed out, many East Asian countries were in the same situation but are much better off today. Could it be that Africa is poorly managed by its ruling class? Could this be so for the ME too? And could a UN institution afford to criticise those power Elites? Rich countries are an easier target, no?

https://gcm.unu.edu/publications/articles/crises-of-immigration.html


Moral crisis? No the west should be proud for all we provided to the global south. From education, to technology, to culture and much more. If anything these ingrates owe us a debt of gratitude for bringing them out of their darkness.
#14844676
Buzz62 wrote:Oh...so you say its intelligent to let your people starve? OK...

Yup. You actually think its an exhibition of intellect, to starve your own people.
Well done POD. That's...sick.


It is intelligent in so far as it is self-serving. In capitalism, it is intelligent to make as much money as possible. Some do this by robbing others to the point that the victims are starving.

None od this changes the fact that you are perpetuating racism.
#14844679
mikema63 wrote:When racists say things like this about me it reassures me that I'm not crazy. :lol:

Good for you Mikie.
Its important to believe you're not crazy.
Its also important to toss about the name "racist" when you really have no argument.
Its a common tactic of you alt-lefties. Makes one wonder...if you shake your head...does it rattle Mikie?
#14844680
Oh I'm sorry for recognizing good old fashioned racialism and being disgusted by it. Your bullshit has been debunked a thousand times over but you cling to utter nonsense that flies in the face of everything we know about human biology.

But I guess you can just whine about how mean I am for pointing that out, insult me, and call me alt-left whatever that's supposed to mean applied to me one of the most centrist posters on the sites. :lol:

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