Britian is not selling its firm, but helping strength the communist military - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14846255
Chinese group blocked by Trump announces UK chip-maker buyout

Even Australia banned the business deal with Huawei. The UK should take responsibility for the future threat on our western civilization. Imagine the day when Russian & China & North Korea defeat the US force, we are no longer able to chat online freely.

What a greedy and short-sighted selfish government, selling the future of humanity for money.
#14846291
Even Australia banned the business deal with Huawei. The UK should take responsibility for the future threat on our western civilization. Imagine the day when Russian & China & North Korea defeat the US force, we are no longer able to chat online freely.

What a greedy and short-sighted selfish government, selling the future of humanity for money.

This is the British we're talking about, Sasa. The British ruling class would sell their own grandmothers for money. Back in the 19th century, the British had a balance of payments problem with Imperial China - we were buying huge amounts of Chinese tea, but we had nothing the Chinese wanted to buy from us. The British Empire was facing financial ruin. Until, that is, the British ruling elite hit on the jolly wheeze of getting millions of Chinese citizens addicted to opium and then monopolising the supply. When the Chinese government started seizing British shipments of opium, we declared war on them. Twice. Or was it three times? I forget. Anyhoo, long story short, we won. The British Empire solved its balance of payments problem and Imperial China sank into chaos and revolution. And I'm not even going to mention what we did to India. Or Ireland. Or Ceylon. Or.... but I think you get the idea.

The current behaviour of the British ruling elite should not surprise you at all. We're going to sell you all down the river. Just you fucking watch us.... :lol:
#14846318
The ship has really sailed on this. We already do tremendous amounts of business with china in tons of different ways and are already dependent on that trade and production capacity. A Chinese group buying or not buying a chip manufacturer isn't going to make any difference.

Also Russia, china, and north Korea are hardly on track to militarily beat the US and NATO. Particularly considering neither the west nor china would be interested in doing something so catastrophically stupid for both sides.

My prediction is in the next few decades China and Russia will see increasing conflict between them and china will continue to integrate into the world market and just become yet another capitalist country.
#14846324
mikema63 wrote:
My prediction is in the next few decades China and Russia will see increasing conflict between them and china will continue to integrate into the world market and just become yet another capitalist country.


It could work out that way.

I always wonder what is the average Chinese citizen's view on the tight country the government has on things. Especially with the internet.
#14846326
I say that they'll run into conflict largely because China wants to expand it's influence in the region which Russia will probably not appreciate.

I'd imagine the wealthier areas are full of people not super happy about the tight government control but not necessarily anti Chinese government. They owe their wealth and lifestyles to the governments reforms and efforts after all.
#14846418
Potemkin wrote:This is the British we're talking about, Sasa. The British ruling class would sell their own grandmothers for money. Back in the 19th century, the British had a balance of payments problem with Imperial China - we were buying huge amounts of Chinese tea, but we had nothing the Chinese wanted to buy from us. The British Empire was facing financial ruin. Until, that is, the British ruling elite hit on the jolly wheeze of getting millions of Chinese citizens addicted to opium and then monopolising the supply. When the Chinese government started seizing British shipments of opium, we declared war on them. Twice. Or was it three times? I forget. Anyhoo, long story short, we won. The British Empire solved its balance of payments problem and Imperial China sank into chaos and revolution. And I'm not even going to mention what we did to India. Or Ireland. Or Ceylon. Or.... but I think you get the idea.

The current behaviour of the British ruling elite should not surprise you at all. We're going to sell you all down the river. Just you fucking watch us.... :lol:


It's true its British business and only you have a say while we don't care if British ruling class wish to sell their grandmother, but the situation is you guys are offering technological supplies to terrorism.

mikema63 wrote:The ship has really sailed on this. We already do tremendous amounts of business with china in tons of different ways and are already dependent on that trade and production capacity. A Chinese group buying or not buying a chip manufacturer isn't going to make any difference.

Also Russia, china, and north Korea are hardly on track to militarily beat the US and NATO. Particularly considering neither the west nor china would be interested in doing something so catastrophically stupid for both sides.

My prediction is in the next few decades China and Russia will see increasing conflict between them and china will continue to integrate into the world market and just become yet another capitalist country.


Gaining foreign IC designers would only speed up the technological improvement of the communist military, and I can tell there are not many opportunities like that for China since U.S., Japan, South Korea or Taiwan are unlikely to allow such kind of deal. If that's not the case, we'd see Google/Microsoft/NVIDIA all bought by China, and yes China has enough money to do so.

China / North Korea are certainly not confident enough to confront the US militarily, so they are preparing for that day. Undeniably the gap is reducing and the later the war breaks out the worse for the US side.

I agree there may be conflicts of interest between China and Russia, but such thing won't surface until their enemy falls. In other words the existence of US dominance consolidates the China/Russia ties.

Rancid wrote:It could work out that way.

I always wonder what is the average Chinese citizen's view on the tight country the government has on things. Especially with the internet.


Most Chinese people don't care about (or more precisely know about ) what's going on across the world. They just care about gaining as much money as possible during their lifetime and never worry about things like long-term consequence or sustainability (pretty much like British from this point of view).

But what the Chinese communist rulers are thinking is another topic.

Decky wrote:It should be a nationalised industry opperated by the British government just like every industry larger than a one person operation. Corbyn will sort this.


It's not about nationalized industry but the national security concern, and UK obviously lacks that sense.

New Zealand is another similar country standing too close to China in favor of short-term profits, however the NZ is unable to offer firms like IC designers to China.

Having said that, most technologically advanced countries won't allow such sort of deal with China, though not sure about Germany, a forefront leftist country in the west.

Please format your messages like this. The idea is that it is easier to follow conversations with each other.

-TIG Edit :borg:
#14846436
Germany leftist? :lol: The Christian Democratic Union are in power, the main German conversative party.

Also it would have to be a nationalised industry for it to follow the national interest. While capitalists are allowed to control Britian's industry they will do whatever they need to do to make a profit no matter who it harms. Capitalism itself is unpatriotic. They would sell all of our defences down to the last rifle to the Chinese if the price was right. Capitalists have no nation, remember that.
#14846439
Decky wrote:Germany leftist? :lol: The Christian Democratic Union are in power, the main German conversative party.

Also it would have to be a nationalised industry for it to follow the national interest. While capitalists are allowed to control Britian's industry they will do whatever they need to do to make a profit no matter who it harms. Capitalism itself is unpatriotic. They would sell all of our defences down to the last rifle to the Chinese if the price was right. Capitalists have no nation, remember that.


I know "The Christian Democratic Union", but see the stance on which they deal with Muslim refugees as well as some other issues, they appear to be pretty left. And I guess they might be more friendly to Chinese communist compared to US/Australia.

"Also it would have to be a nationalised industry for it to follow the national interest." I don't think so (please correct me if I was wrong), as I know the US/Australia government has the authority to ban the business deal with China regardless of which company it is, cos national security is always highly prioritized, and there's no absolutely free market in any country and need to be regulated by the government when necessary that's why we need governments.

Another example is foreigners are not allowed to buy established properties in Australia, you can argue its anti-capitalism, but the government thinks it's better for the interest of the whole country.
#14846441
I know "The Christian Democratic Union", but see the stance on which they deal with Muslim refugees as well as some other issues, they appear to be pretty left.


Nope, they are standard convervatives. Importing as many immigrants as possible on the orders of their big bussines masters to weaken unions and drive down working class peoples wages.

Conservatives belive in a free market in goods, labour, services and capital. Consevatives are inherantly pro immigration, you would need a working class socialist party to get into power if you wanted to close the borders.
#14846446
Decky wrote:Nope, they are standard convervatives. Importing as many immigrants as possible on the orders of their big bussines masters to weaken unions and drive down working class peoples wages.

Conservatives belive in a free market in goods, labour, services and capital. Consevatives are inherantly pro immigration, you would need a working class socialist party to get into power if you wanted to close the borders.


The definition of conservative/liberal tends to vary in different countries. And I agree Germany appears conservative economically but not politically. Or you'd say Trump is liberal while Democratic is conservative in that sense.

And a ban on business with China is conventionally considered conservative politically.
#14846448
Conservatives in the west support the free market. A ban on bussines with China to preserve the national interst would be a left wing policy. Conservatives worship at the alter of Mamon and care not a fig for the nation interstest, all they care for is the mighty dollar.
#14846461
Decky wrote:Conservatives in the west support the free market. A ban on bussines with China to preserve the national interst would be a left wing policy. Conservatives worship at the alter of Mamon and care not a fig for the nation interstest, all they care for is the mighty dollar.


I reckon there are economic conservatives and political conservatives.

Lets say Democratic proposed to increase the quota of H-1B work visas while Trump/most Republicans oppose, this means Democratic are more "conservative"?

New Zealand take a more open stance on immigration in comparison with Australia, should you say because NZ is a more conservative county.

At last, Japan a nation opposing immigration most in general, makes you believe Japan is the most liberal country in developed world?

You're just overturning my common sense.
#14846561
mikema63 wrote:The ship has really sailed on this. We already do tremendous amounts of business with china in tons of different ways and are already dependent on that trade and production capacity. A Chinese group buying or not buying a chip manufacturer isn't going to make any difference.

Also Russia, china, and north Korea are hardly on track to militarily beat the US and NATO. Particularly considering neither the west nor china would be interested in doing something so catastrophically stupid for both sides.

My prediction is in the next few decades China and Russia will see increasing conflict between them and china will continue to integrate into the world market and just become yet another capitalist country.


Firstly, I agree with the facts of this. Trade with China goes both ways, and it's vital for both economies.

HOWEVER, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. I submit that we stop referring to China as "communist" but as "authoritarian capitalist". This is a great term to explain other authoritarian regimes that are involved in western markets, but don't have any of the tenets of liberal democracy. Russia is the most predominant example of this type of governance.

I don't think Russia is alone as an authoritarian capitalist state that has an interest in weakening liberal democracy. Its actions in affecting the US election was only the most brazen of many, many operations they've taken to try and weaken public trust in democratic processes and political candidates. While China hasn't gone as far as Russia, it also puts a lot of import in preventing the spread of Western ideas and reinforcing a rhetoric of the dangers of American-style democracy to its people.

China also has done a lot of work in funding think tank organizations around the world, usually for the purpose of helping lobbying for authoritarian interests. So it's a situation where authoritarian states are able to exert a lot of influence on Western countries through avenues we don't think about, like business, patronage, education institutes, etc.

I don't think China will become just another capitalist country. Maybe it'll more fully integrate with the world economy, but there are inherent political interests in keeping their authoritarian state AND in encouraging eroding public trust in democracies. It might be very important for the future viability of liberal democracies for their governments to put more pressure on businesses to be disclose their relationships with authoritarian donors and partnerships.

All that said though, yes, a single chip maker isn't the end of the world.
#14846580
Lets say Democratic proposed to increase the quota of H-1B work visas while Trump/most Republicans oppose, this means Democratic are more "conservative"?


Trump is a populist not a conservative. A conseravtive would want as many immigrants as posible to increase the profits of big bussines.

New Zealand take a more open stance on immigration in comparison with Australia, should you say because NZ is a more conservative county.


Indeed I would.

At last, Japan a nation opposing immigration most in general, makes you believe Japan is the most liberal country in developed world?


No, why would I? Liberalism is pro immigration (liberals belive in free markets, this means a free market in both goods and labour). Japan is so anti immgration precisley because it is one of the least liberal places in the developed world.
#14846693
Decky wrote:Trump is a populist not a conservative. A conseravtive would want as many immigrants as posible to increase the profits of big bussines.



Indeed I would.



No, why would I? Liberalism is pro immigration (liberals belive in free markets, this means a free market in both goods and labour). Japan is so anti immgration precisley because it is one of the least liberal places in the developed world.


Your theory just confused me. You are saying, conservative is pro immigration, so you agree NZ is more conservative (which most NZers definitely deny), then liberal is pro-immigration too. So both cons and lib are the same over immigration?

And how could you explain most people call the anti-immigration Japan conservative?
#14846824
In the west conservatives are liberals Sasa. Conservatives belive in the seperation of powers (a liberal idea), free markets (a liberal idea), most of them belive in secular government (a liberal idea), freedom of the press (a liberal idea) etc etc. You have sadly absobved the bizzare American fiction that consevatives oppose liberalism. In actual fact liberalism forms the basis of western conservative thought.
#14846842
Sasa wrote:Your theory just confused me. You are saying, conservative is pro immigration, so you agree NZ is more conservative (which most NZers definitely deny), then liberal is pro-immigration too. So both cons and lib are the same over immigration?

And how could you explain most people call the anti-immigration Japan conservative?


Conservatives tell lies - as capitalists they want cheap workers from abroad, and as politicians they denounce 'em to get the votes of mugs. Surely you don't look to these people for consistency or principle? That is a real mug's game. Japan's culture is so chauvinist they want to keep their wage-undercutters abroad, as far as they can.

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