[skinster]

Anti-Cuba tears are delicious.

[QatzelOk]

No, they are not the same because Cuba is willing to be a lot harsher than the US in repressing those who may not be happy about police killings of Black people

It's interesting how authoritarian leftists become when people protest the regimes they like

Cuba has fewer prisoners per capita than the USA, but both countries have high rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... #Ethnicity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... nt_in_Cuba

(per 100,000 pop)

USA 655
Black USA 2,306
El Salvador 590
Cuba 510
Panama 401
...
China 120
Canada 107
France 105

Of course, if you're a black American, the incarceration rate is 2,306. And this is also reflected in how police handle calls or interaction with black men specifically.

Mark Q Sawyer, the only source for the wikipedia article you sourced, made a career as an assistant professor of Poli Science in Los Angeles, writing about race relations. I'm sure he received a lot of grant money by writing trash about Cuba.

Neither you or I have any proof that black men are as over-represented in Cuba's prisons as they are in the USA. So you are projecting an American phenomenon onto another country (using American authors) even though your target country has had very different social conditions and modern history. Again, terrible methodology because your conclusion (Cuba = bad) came first, and then you tried to stuff whatever information you were able to find into this simple narrative.

And it was just so easy for you to "prove" Cuba=bad using anti-communist tropes from American sources because your "proof" has been prepared for you since the end of the second world war. All you had to do was take them out of the dusty old box and throw them together.

But this demonstrates that you are blinded by your own reflection, and project your own society's problems and issues upon other cultures and peoples who have lived very different lives and have very different concerns and points of view.

How sad that your reflection is so strong that it blinds you from apprecating the positive differences of other cultures and economic systems, especially since ours is currently collapsing into lies and economic fascism.

[wat0n]

Cuba has fewer prisoners per capita than the USA, but both countries have high rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... #Ethnicity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_p ... nt_in_Cuba

(per 100,000 pop)

USA 655
Black USA 2,306
El Salvador 590
Cuba 510
Panama 401
...
China 120
Canada 107
France 105

Of course, if you're a black American, the incarceration rate is 2,306. And this is also reflected in how police handle calls or interaction with black men specifically.

Mark Q Sawyer, the only source for the wikipedia article you sourced, made a career as an assistant professor of Poli Science in Los Angeles, writing about race relations. I'm sure he received a lot of grant money by writing trash about Cuba.

Neither you or I have any proof that black men are as over-represented in Cuba's prisons as they are in the USA. So you are projecting an American phenomenon onto another country (using American authors) even though your target country has had very different social conditions and modern history. Again, terrible methodology because your conclusion (Cuba = bad) came first, and then you tried to stuff whatever information you were able to find into this simple narrative.

And it was just so easy for you to "prove" Cuba=bad using anti-communist tropes from American sources because your "proof" has been prepared for you since the end of the second world war. All you had to do was take them out of the dusty old box and throw them together.

But this demonstrates that you are blinded by your own reflection, and project your own society's problems and issues upon other cultures and peoples who have lived very different lives and have very different concerns and points of view.

How sad that your reflection is so strong that it blinds you from apprecating the positive differences of other cultures and economic systems, especially since ours is currently collapsing into lies and economic fascism.

Why don't you tell us why is it that American sources are believable when it comes to African American incarceration rates but not when it comes to Afro-Cuban ones? But I guess we should just forget about American academics, including far leftists ones, who do just as you did: They went to Cuba, but unlike you, found what they regard as instances of societal and institutional racism. Why? Because they are part of the big meanie American conspiracy

Also, why doesn't Cuba just publish the rates by race/ethnicity so everyone can have an idea about what's going on regarding incarceration there? They would hard to believe, just as their infant mortality figures or its standardized tests are, but it's better than nothing.

At last: No, you are dead wrong - I may live in the US, but I'm actually Latin American and I am perfectly aware of the societal problems throughout Latin America. They are more serious than America's, there's more poverty, corruption and inequality than in the USA - and now Latin America also has to deal with identity politics and tribalism based on class, gender and race/ethnicity (in that order of priority), increasingly done in the American style, too. On the upside, Latin Americans are more social than Americans are (but even this can be perverted to become something worse than the stuff you see in the USA - Americans are a lot more respectful of your privacy than Latin Americans are).

Si quieres puedo escribir en español, y podemos ver quién entiende mejor a las sociedades latinoamericanas entre nosotros.

[QatzelOk]

Why don't you tell us why is it that American sources are believable when it comes to African American incarceration rates but not when it comes to Afro-Cuban ones?

Because the USA is a cesspool of systemic racism because of its history of self-confident and brutal plantation slavery.

This history, in the USA, was not followed by a revolution AGAINST inequality, like it was in Cuba in the 50s. The USA has never had an Equality Revolution. It has had a "break away from England so we can kill all the First Nations" revolution in the 1770s, and it had a "no other nations can exist except the Yankee nation from coast to coast" revlolution (civil war).

But it has had no revolution to counter the incredibly life-degrading conditions of African Americans. Cuba has. And as a result, Cuba didn't use modern technology to burn witches, like the USA has continued to do. Example:

...approximately 65 percent of the women sterilized in North Carolina were Black and approximately 35 percent were white."[4]

In contrast to other eugenics programs across the United States, the North Carolina Board enabled county departments of public welfare to petition for the sterilization of their clients.[5] The Board remained in operation until 1977. During its existence thousands of individuals were sterilized. In 1977 the N.C. General Assembly repealed the laws authorizing its existence,[6] though it would not be until 2003 that the involuntary sterilization laws that underpinned the Board's operations were repealed.[7]

Many states had active sterilization programs (of mostly minority women) right up until the closing years of the 20th Century. North Carolina's program - mentionned above - ended in the late 70s, while I believe Michigancontinued to sterilize First Nations women up until the 80s.

This is not the approach to modern technology and modern medicine that Cuba has taken. I would call the American approach to eugenics "vampire-racism." Whereas the modern medicine that Che and Fidel put together was "revolutionary."

Any accusations of Cuba being "racist" by someone from the rich West, have to take into consideration the "world leadership" examples of the USA - the Great Western Policeman.

[wat0n]

Because the USA is a cesspool of systemic racism because of its history of self-confident and brutal plantation slavery.

Sounds like a nice red herring there, even worse, Cuba has a similar history of plantation slavery, and it also has a similar history of segregation and Jim Crow.

This history, in the USA, was not followed by a revolution AGAINST inequality, like it was in Cuba in the 50s. The USA has never had an Equality Revolution. It has had a "break away from England so we can kill all the First Nations" revolution in the 1770s, and it had a "no other nations can exist except the Yankee nation from coast to coast" revlolution (civil war).

But it has had no revolution to counter the incredibly life-degrading conditions of African Americans. Cuba has. And as a result, Cuba didn't use modern technology to burn witches, like the USA has continued to do. Example:


Many states had active sterilization programs (of mostly minority women) right up until the closing years of the 20th Century. North Carolina's program - mentionned above - ended in the late 70s, while I believe Michigancontinued to sterilize First Nations women up until the 80s.

This is not the approach to modern technology and modern medicine that Cuba has taken. I would call the American approach to eugenics "vampire-racism." Whereas the modern medicine that Che and Fidel put together was "revolutionary."

Why, again, is that even in Cuba with its "revolution against inequality" ( ) still sees Afro-Cubans doing worse than White ones in many relevant dimensions (income, labor market representation, relations with law enforcement, incarceration, political representation, etc)? This is despite the fact that, as a centrally-planned economy, the Government controls directly or indirectly almost all economic activity in the island.

Any accusations of Cuba being "racist" by someone from the rich West, have to take into consideration the "world leadership" examples of the USA - the Great Western Policeman.

Even worse, I am from South America so even that sort of nonsense will not convince me in the slightest.

[skinster]

wat0n is a typical [rule 2 deletion - Prosthetic Conscience] who goes to the U.S. and supports the destruction of Latin American countries like Venezuela and Caribbean islands like Cuba, never mentioning the blockade on the island or sanctions, much greater crimes than what anyone in these countries do elsewhere. He cannot get enough of power, he supports it nearly every time, regardless of what the topic is. Maybe he should get a job at the State Dept since he spends so much time shilling for the vicious Empire.

[wat0n]

So now that you cannot account for the brutality by Cuban police against Afro-Cubans, you need to resort to personal attacks and dilatory tactics, heh?

[skinster]

They're not really attacks if they're true. And yes, they're relevant to the discussion since you're trying to demonise Cuba. Why do you never demonise the U.S. since there's so much content available in that regard?

[wat0n]

I'm simply pointing out the police killing of an Afro-Cuban, showing other instances where they are disadvantaged in Cuba and asking why do these things happen if the glorious revolutionary Cuban government was established to end inequality and also why is this not labeled as evidence of systemic racism on its part.

That sounds a lot of projection on your end: Am I to assume that when you post in the GF thread, you don't do so because you care about solving police brutality or the government response to the protests and riots, but simply because you want to demonize the US?

[skinster]

In the George Floyd thread it's not me doing the demonising, the cops are doing it themselves. I am merely posting evidence of it. Don't shoot the messenger, even those messaging on behalf of the U.S. State Dept.

[wat0n]

If so, the Cubans are doing their own demonizing when they don't allow people to protest the killing of Hansel Hernández... Don't you think?

[skinster]

[QatzelOk]

So now that you cannot account for the brutality by Cuban police against Afro-Cubans, you need to resort to personal attacks and dilatory tactics, heh?

The only brutality here is your brutal lack of any capacity to formulate either a logical argument or some convincing rhetoric.
Like Bari Weiss, you seem to think if you talk like a callous rich person, you will become one.

I prefer to be honest, reveal things about myself, and try desperately to get other posters to do the same as me. I do not believe that bullshitting for mafia is a good way to get a good life.

Ecured is sadly only in Spanish, but Google Chrome's handy translate function is useful here.

It is sort of sad how all our capitalist entities (like corporations) are constantly pirating all our social assets, hijacking our protective government agencies, and poisoning people's minds with lies. It makes a "mixed economy" really problematic because the "private" part acts like organized crime when it comes to targetting everything "social."

[Unthinking Majority]

I'm better at politics than Che Guevera. Because I'm alive and he's dead. He went all in on a risky hand and lost everything forever.

[wat0n]

è
The only brutality here is your brutal lack of any capacity to formulate either a logical argument or some convincing rhetoric
Like Bari Weiss, you seem to think if you talk like a callous rich person, you will become one.

I prefer to be honest, reveal things about myself, and try desperately to get other posters to do the same as me. I do not believe that bullshitting for mafia is a good way to get a good life.

Oh really? So then why do you make unsupported crap up about how many Black people you saw on your trips to Cuba, Qatz?

I already made the obvious question: Why is it that the killing of an Afro-Cuban person Hansel Hernandez at the hand of the police isn't evidence of systemic racism by Cuban police?

[QatzelOk]

Oh really? So then why do you make unsupported crap up about how many Black people you saw on your trips to Cuba, Qatz?

This is "supported" by "I was there." It's not based on a loosely-related wiki article written by American corporations.

Why is it that the killing of an Afro-Cuban person Hansel Hernandez at the hand of the police isn't evidence of systemic racism by Cuban police?

The killing of one person is not a "systemic" event. It's only systemic if it happens all the time and becomes the norm.

SYSTEMIC

In the USA, it wasn't just ONE BLACK MAN who was killed. Black men get killed and harrassed every day in the USA, that's what makes it systemic.

EQUALITY

If you visit Cuba, you will also see how amazingly EQUAL the people are. That's why crimes of property are uncommon among ordinary people. Everywhere in the world if you have more than everyone else, people tend to hate you, so you get robbed. The desire to hate and rob people is mainly a result of inequality.

PROTESTS

Yes, USA citizens are allowed to protest. This is because their protest have zero effect on public policy or social change. And though you seem to be hoping that destructive Portland-style protests infect Cuba because a guy got killed there ( ), I wonder how many of these protests you have taken part of in your own community. Any?

[wat0n]

This is "supported" by "I was there." It's not based on a loosely-related wiki article written by American corporations.

Or academic works written as graduate theses in some universities, you mean? And the "I was there" argument is also what they claim there ("I was there for field work").

The killing of one person is not a "systemic" event. It's only systemic if it happens all the time and becomes the norm.

SYSTEMIC

In the USA, it wasn't just ONE BLACK MAN who was killed. Black men get killed and harrassed every day in the USA, that's what makes it systemic.

It's funny because they also claim that happens every day in Cuba.

EQUALITY

If you visit Cuba, you will also see how amazingly EQUAL the people are. That's why crimes of property are uncommon among ordinary people. Everywhere in the world if you have more than everyone else, people tend to hate you, so you get robbed. The desire to hate and rob people is mainly a result of inequality.

Sounds like a Cuban Government marketing campaign to get people to like and, who knows, visit Cuba and stay in their hotels

PROTESTS

Yes, USA citizens are allowed to protest. This is because their protest have zero effect on public policy or social change. And though you seem to be hoping that destructive Portland-style protests infect Cuba because a guy got killed there ( ), I wonder how many of these protests you have taken part of in your own community. Any?

I'm not, as a foreigner, going to participate in American politics.

[QatzelOk]

I'm not, as a foreigner, going to participate in American politics.

Then why are you forcing Cubans to play EE.UU politics?

Like you, they have a unique non-EE.UU politic.

Relating Cuban events to what is happening in the USA in an allegorical way is nonsense.

[wat0n]

Then why are you forcing Cubans to play EE.UU politics?

Like you, they have a unique non-EE.UU politic.

Relating Cuban events to what is happening in the USA in an allegorical way is nonsense.

Because we are in a mostly Anglophone forum, and for some reason many, many people are applying American concepts to their own politics throughout the West. Furthermore, the same people who are quite vocal when minorities are killed by police in countries with political regimes they don't like (like the US) are somehow silent when the same thing happens in countries with political regimes they do like (like Cuba).

So I think the question is quite relevant since now people throughout Latin America have to endure US-style left-wing identity politics whether they like it or not, courtesy of the Latin American far left's decision to do so by the way - including, but not limited to, pro-Cuban Communist Parties. If anything, that's actually yet another example of both the cultural victory of the US and the abject ideological failure Marxism is: I still remember when Communists regarded the American obsession with identity politics as thoroughly absurd not worthy of any serious consideration at best, a red herring to distract from class warfare at worst

PS: I'm sure American style right-wing identity politics will follow too, one of the major underrated developments to this effect has been the growth of Protestant congregations throughout Latin America during the last decade to the extent that they are gradually replacing the largely discredited Catholic Church. I think it will mainly be based around being good Christians rather than Whiteness.

[skinster]

https://twitter.com/DiazCanelB/status/1288101951322955776?s=20

Cuban medical internationalism has been a core component of the revolution

I'm not, as a foreigner, going to participate in American politics.

"I'm just going to defend the death-cult empire's imperialist wars on small countries abroad and their security - the police - at home, online, every day"

Got it, wat0n. Thanks for making things clearer but some of us already know. Cool life you have going over in the USA.

I'm better at politics than Che Guevera. Because I'm alive and he's dead. He went all in on a risky hand and lost everything forever.

His legacy lives on in the minds of millions around the world, yesterday, today and tomorrow. When you die, nobody will care about you or be inspired by you, so you lose.