[Tainari88]

This is a fantastic project that you got to work on. But for this to become a national priority, wouldn't the president of the country (or the government) have to initiate some kind of program?

I realize that you reached a lot of people with your course, and that is was face-to-face, which is ideal for social encounters.

But to really initiate a change on a national level... wouldn't the central government have to get involved in order to ensure funding and consistency across the entire nation for this food-education program?

In Cuba, there are many schools for farmers that share ideas regarding farm technologies. Are there community schools for learning how to cook healthier meals using locally-sourced ingredients?

(This might help counteract all the pro-junkfood commercials (brainwashing) of commercial media)

This project was researched by the University of Arizona and the units were done by them too. It was called Steps Forward or Pasos Adelante in Spanish. It was a 12 week course twice a week for three months plus a graduation celebration and each student that completed 10 of the 12 units got a certificate and a free gift card worth $100 dollars to a local grocery store.

I had to plan the props and the dialog and so on. Lots of exercise and there was a healthy lunch or breakfast included in each class free of charge. It took place at church basements, clinics, and community recreation centers all over Denver. They loved it. I loved doing it too. The first week talks about what makes people diabetic, have cardiac blockages and hypertension and thyroid and also cancers that are preventable. You start with really interesting videos and slides. You use in Spanish and so on discussions of how the human body reacts. You do tests and you tell them, if you drink sugary drinks this happens to your body. You literally give them water only and test them. Then you give them a small amount of sugary drinks. They test again. Many were shocked by the results. It is an awareness campaign. You tell them you see your body can only process at most 500 mg of sodium a day. If you eat this bag of chips? And then eat this other processed meat you are three times over the excess and your kidney has to respond and it can't flush it out, it will then react this way.

It was very specific. At the end of the course you see big changes. I thought it would be less effective but it turned out to be very effective. The key is SOCIALIZING Q. They loved talking, eating, doing things together and you make it fun. I would stop for a little dance. I would put on this song by this artist:

I would dance around. I choreographed it all. And talked about how all that bad ingredient stuff would be like a bad guy getting ready to do harm. I would dance around to that. They would laugh so hard! But they remembered it all.

I told them the truth I used to work near those two streets in Old San Juan called Calle Luna (Moon Street) and Calle Sol (Sun Street). It used to be the streets that were the poorest in Old San Juan. Not anymore. Hee hee.

Today is my birthday Q. I feel GREAT!! Another new year!

[QatzelOk]

This project was researched by the University of Arizona and the units were done by them too. It was called Steps Forward or Pasos Adelante in Spanish. It was a 12 week course twice a week for three months plus a graduation celebration and each student that completed 10 of the 12 units got a certificate and a free gift card worth $100 dollars to a local grocery store.

...

Today is my birthday Q. I feel GREAT!! Another new year!

¡Te deseo el más feliz de los cumpleaños, Tainari!

[QatzelOk]

Amlo lays out the conditions under which he will help the Biden regime slow the flow of migrants across their shared border:

1. US approval for a plan to deploy $20 billion to Latin American and Caribbean countries

2. Suspend the US blockade of Cuba

3. Remove all sanctions against Venezuela

4. Grant at least 10 million Hispanics living in the US the right to remain and work legally

Interesting development that I will follow...

[Tainari88]

Amlo lays out the conditions under which he will help the Biden regime slow the flow of migrants across their shared border:



Interesting development that I will follow...

Claudia is going to follow a lot of that agenda.

Without Mexico's help that border is going to be seriously compromised.

The US did not want or wants to help with poverty in Latin America. That is the main reason for people moving. Paying people shit for decades is not conducive to stability. AMLO is the only prez who has raised salaries in Mexico and he gets a lot of pushback from the elite Mexicans who want to pay one dollar or two dollar an hour salaries to workers.

He has doubled pensions for the elderly, scholarships for the youth, he invested in education heavily.

He is going to SWEEP the elections on all fronts. The senate, the congress and the governorships and the presidency. Without Mexico that Honduran, Central American caravan will never stop. If you study all the Central Americans bleeding people it is about civil wars in the past and BAD US FOREIGN INTERVENTIONS.

The Mexican government is not playing!

They say he is asking for too much. They have money to give for incessant bombs and war machines. None for raising people out of poverty. FUCK THEM!

https://www.lapoliticaonline.com/usa/po ... -de-biden/

[QatzelOk]

Which communist countries are taking in massive immigration?

If massive immigration "proves" that the USA has a better system, then it currently has the best system on Earth.

Likewise, remember when Iraqis determined that Kuwait had a "better system" in 1990?

Without Mexico's help that border is going to be seriously compromised.

It might even move, or stop existing at some point.

Imagine a bankrupt USA unable to control its own population because no money for social infrastructure like police or border controls, invaded by another 30 million refugees in the next few years. California, Texas, etc. might find themselves with new flags flying over their capitales de estado.

In Montréal, Spanish is quickly bumping off English as the second language here. And we are really, really far from El Paso and Ciudad Juarez.

[wat0n]

If massive immigration "proves" that the USA has a better system, then it currently has the best system on Earth.

Likewise, remember when Iraqis determined that Kuwait had a "better system" in 1990?

Are you really comparing Latin American immigrants in the US to an occupying military force?

[Tainari88]

Are you really comparing Latin American immigrants in the US to an occupying military force?

The MAGA crowd sees them as poison that is poisoning the blood of the nation. The MAGA crowd sees them as vermin to be eradicated. If Trump gets elected he says he is going to remove millions in a big deportation push.

The reality is that to remove all those people and house them and get them ready to be deported is going to be very very expensive.

A lot of those families have kids who are born US citizens, and parents without legal status. It means the state has to feed the US citizen kids who have parents without legal status. Get the kids in families, and with educations, health care for decades until the parents can get status and get back in to the USA. The simplest thing is to legalize them all and give them work permits. Deport only the drug dealers, gang members and people who are just criminally minded with track records. The vast majority are hard working decent people.

But the MAGA crowd sees them as vermin. The dark hordes that are not European and who speak Spanish and who come from shithole nations and inferior cultures. They are fascist freaks.

But Biden better pay attention and remove the sanctions from Cuba, Venezuela, and help Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, and all the ones hurting big time. Because to keep pressuring nations with economic crisis is asking for more immigrants running across Mexico. And the Mexicans can't absorb 30 million people which is what huge percentages of South America, Central America and the Caribbean can produce in super poor people with desperate circumstances.

Look at this Venezuelan girl talking about issues in Venezuela:

This single mother with a husband who is MIA in Colombia:

They say that is not my problem. The MAGA crowd says those shitty nations are not my problem. Well I got news for the fucking racist fascist MAGA people--THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM. Because you had HORRIBLE policies for 50 years. You tried assassinating Venezuelan leaders with coup shit attempts. You tried doing that in Honduras and had civil wars and death squads in El Salvador that Bukele had to cope with the deported fucking gangs from Los Angeles because the Salvadorans during the 1980s had a bloody civil war that the US government CREATED and backed. I could be all fucking day talking about how the US government created chaos, wars and death everywhere in many nations. Dictatorships backed by fucking CIA and Reagan too. Bush Sr. had Manuel Noriega offed and other Panamanian presidents. Destroyed the ecology in Panama and now the Panama Canal zone doesn't work.

Yes you are fucking RESPONSIBLE for the misery in these places with the GREED out of control. You wanted to control the fucking oil prices in Mexico, Venezuela, and so much more. You created instability and a huge gap between rich and poor.

Take fucking responsibility. Accept those poor immigrants. Get them some permits to work. Let them work. Get the youth educated and rebuild the USA without some European bullshit dream of whiteness only. It is over!!

These MAGA people with crap in the brains that never analyze why there is a problem in all these countries with poverty and violence and instability? You pay people decent wages, you allow them to have clinics, schools and services, you give people decent living conditions. GUESS WHAT GENIUSES? THEY STAY PUT.

You create wars, and manipulate elections, and force some shit policies favoring rich American companies only? You got chaos and a run for the border. The USA is not in EUROPE FOLKS. It is in the Americas. These are your neighbors.

They are mostly non white people. Fuck the white only shit racist shit. Accept CHANGE.

You think the Latin Americans and Central Americans specifically are NOT AWARE of what the US government does or doesn´t do? Stop believing in bullshit.

This song says it all. They call the USA the fucking SHARK always like a predator wanting to fucking eat all the fish in the sea and it is the Shark of BAD LUCK. It is the US government.

Anyone who knows what they do in that region of the world knows it is the truth. Who is Ruben Blades? An international law Harvard lawyer graduate from the University of Panama and then he ran for president. Many people notice the bullshit in Latin America.

The only ones who have no idea are those MAGA assholes and Biden bullshit about sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela. AMLO told him that the SUMMIT for Latin America in Los Angeles was a failure because the US government does not learn. DO NOT EXCLUDE entire countries because you want control of the entire region. It is counterproductive. Do they learn? NOOO!! Fuck those assholes. Put the pressure on!

[QatzelOk]

Are you really comparing Latin American immigrants in the US to an occupying military force?

Latin America itself is the result of a "occupying military force" from Spain, who determined that Turtle Island's southern half "had a better system."

...the MAGA crowd sees them as vermin.

You seem to have decided that "the MAGA crowd" are vermin, and that political discussions regaring the significance of immigration are an opportunity to identify vermon.

Along with mocking wat0n's claim that "lots of immigration" proves that your country's system is better, I was simply saying that an invasion of any kind... will change the politics of the invaded country. Likewise, this army of Latinos has already been weaponized by AMLO; his list of demands to the USA are an example of weaponization of illegal immigration.

[Tainari88]

Latin America itself is the result of a "occupying military force" from Spain, who determined that Turtle Island's southern half "had a better system."



You seem to have decided that "the MAGA crowd" are vermin, and that political discussions regaring the significance of immigration are an opportunity to identify vermon.

Along with mocking wat0n's claim that "lots of immigration" proves that your country's system is better, I was simply saying that an invasion of any kind... will change the politics of the invaded country. Likewise, this army of Latinos has already been weaponized by AMLO; his list of demands to the USA are an example of weaponization of illegal immigration.

You think I am going to cry over these dummies talking about invasions from the poor of Latin America and the Caribbean showing up in the Mexico US border?

The US government and propaganda machine talks about how well the American system works for the average person and how everyone is middle class living it up in the USA where all your problems are taken care of by running across a border.

The Mexican public is not naive. But the Central Americans and South Americans, the Cubans are very naive. And totally uninformed. The Mexicans are strategic with the jobs that no one wants in the USA. They know when it is worth going to the States and when it is not worth it. Simply because they are interdependent societies.

I am a realist Q. The reality is that the Spanish crown invaded, took over and colonized a lot of the terrain of the Americas. The French did too. So did the Portuguese and the English. It was a free for all of colonization for centuries.

Now, they want the to be cherry picking immigrants who in their home nations got great educations, learned English at advanced levels, and have money to invest and can bring 'value' to the US and its government. They fail to realize that the people who have that kind of background have a lot of really great choices in their lives. They can remain in their own nations and make money and get a good life where they can own a home and live well. Or they can immigrate to other nations that are first world as well and also live well. A lot of choices. Why go to the States and pay the huge bill of immigration processing and so on without being married to a US citizen or have another compelling factor to consider?

Mexicans with money here galore never consider leaving Mexico to go to the States. Mainly because they think that all of that is a waste of money and time. They can live well without moving.

The only ones who are interested in mobility are the poor, tired masses wanting to breathe free and make $$$$$. Like the Filipino teachers making $3500 US dollars a year in the Phillipines and then jumping into a cheap apartment in Chicago or Texas--and make $52000 starting salary.

Those are the ones interested in the American Dream crap. They are not Europeans. Do the MAGA crowd know this? No. They think the entire world is clamoring to go to some town in the USA and be Americans and deal with the culture shock and shit of the USA. Most people just want to live in their own countries and get a stable life.

I do not worry about whether are they descendants of Spaniards or French people or English people, mixed with Native Americans and Africans, Chinese, etc. it is all water under the bridge Q.

They need to start making societies that FUNCTION on a human level. The blood, wars, death and destruction, genocide and horrors are lessons in the past that have to be ASSIMILATED and learned from and society needs to cease and desist from these destructive and unproductive practices and start implementing solutions that are international, interdisciplinary, creative and effective in solving enormous problems.

If it does not? The future for the human race is dire and hopeless.

[wat0n]

Latin America itself is the result of a "occupying military force" from Spain, who determined that Turtle Island's southern half "had a better system."

So what?

The MAGA crowd sees them as poison that is poisoning the blood of the nation. The MAGA crowd sees them as vermin to be eradicated. If Trump gets elected he says he is going to remove millions in a big deportation push.

The reality is that to remove all those people and house them and get them ready to be deported is going to be very very expensive.

A lot of those families have kids who are born US citizens, and parents without legal status. It means the state has to feed the US citizen kids who have parents without legal status. Get the kids in families, and with educations, health care for decades until the parents can get status and get back in to the USA. The simplest thing is to legalize them all and give them work permits. Deport only the drug dealers, gang members and people who are just criminally minded with track records. The vast majority are hard working decent people.

Indeed, but only if there's a way to stop further immigrants from coming illegally.

But the MAGA crowd sees them as vermin. The dark hordes that are not European and who speak Spanish and who come from shithole nations and inferior cultures. They are fascist freaks.

I don't know if you've followed the crisis regarding Venezuelan asylum seekers (in sanctuary cities, at least, since the southern states and suburbs are dumping them into sanctuary cities) but I've seen a lot of hostility towards them and not necessarily among white people. If anything, there's plenty of other Hispanics who don't want them (including friends of mine).

But Biden better pay attention and remove the sanctions from Cuba, Venezuela, and help Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, and all the ones hurting big time. Because to keep pressuring nations with economic crisis is asking for more immigrants running across Mexico. And the Mexicans can't absorb 30 million people which is what huge percentages of South America, Central America and the Caribbean can produce in super poor people with desperate circumstances.

Look at this Venezuelan girl talking about issues in Venezuela:

This single mother with a husband who is MIA in Colombia:

They say that is not my problem. The MAGA crowd says those shitty nations are not my problem. Well I got news for the fucking racist fascist MAGA people--THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM. Because you had HORRIBLE policies for 50 years. You tried assassinating Venezuelan leaders with coup shit attempts. You tried doing that in Honduras and had civil wars and death squads in El Salvador that Bukele had to cope with the deported fucking gangs from Los Angeles because the Salvadorans during the 1980s had a bloody civil war that the US government CREATED and backed. I could be all fucking day talking about how the US government created chaos, wars and death everywhere in many nations. Dictatorships backed by fucking CIA and Reagan too. Bush Sr. had Manuel Noriega offed and other Panamanian presidents. Destroyed the ecology in Panama and now the Panama Canal zone doesn't work.

Yes you are fucking RESPONSIBLE for the misery in these places with the GREED out of control. You wanted to control the fucking oil prices in Mexico, Venezuela, and so much more. You created instability and a huge gap between rich and poor.

Take fucking responsibility. Accept those poor immigrants. Get them some permits to work. Let them work. Get the youth educated and rebuild the USA without some European bullshit dream of whiteness only. It is over!!

These MAGA people with crap in the brains that never analyze why there is a problem in all these countries with poverty and violence and instability? You pay people decent wages, you allow them to have clinics, schools and services, you give people decent living conditions. GUESS WHAT GENIUSES? THEY STAY PUT.

You create wars, and manipulate elections, and force some shit policies favoring rich American companies only? You got chaos and a run for the border. The USA is not in EUROPE FOLKS. It is in the Americas. These are your neighbors.

They are mostly non white people. Fuck the white only shit racist shit. Accept CHANGE.

You think the Latin Americans and Central Americans specifically are NOT AWARE of what the US government does or doesn´t do? Stop believing in bullshit.

This song says it all. They call the USA the fucking SHARK always like a predator wanting to fucking eat all the fish in the sea and it is the Shark of BAD LUCK. It is the US government.

Anyone who knows what they do in that region of the world knows it is the truth. Who is Ruben Blades? An international law Harvard lawyer graduate from the University of Panama and then he ran for president. Many people notice the bullshit in Latin America.

The only ones who have no idea are those MAGA assholes and Biden bullshit about sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela. AMLO told him that the SUMMIT for Latin America in Los Angeles was a failure because the US government does not learn. DO NOT EXCLUDE entire countries because you want control of the entire region. It is counterproductive. Do they learn? NOOO!! Fuck those assholes. Put the pressure on!

The US is not to blame for the failure of the dictatorship in Venezuela or the corruption of elites in Central America.

You are also assuming these migrants are all going to the US. They aren't, many go to other countries in Latin America like Colombia, Chile, Peru, Ecuador, Argentina and Mexico. And guess what, at least Chileans are increasingly hostile towards immigration, with 84% saying all illegal immigrants should be deported and 69% saying they believe immigration increases crime.

I was in Chile just 3 months ago and noticed the increase in xenophobia.

[Unthinking Majority]

Every western country besides the USA proves that you don't need a repressive communist dictatorship to provide quality universal healthcare and subsidized education for all.

[Tainari88]

Look Oliver Stone is no Communist. He is the son of capitalist Wall Street father.

The reality is if you do not study the entire history of Venezuelan reasons for doing the unthinkable and throwing off the Venezuelan Capitalist elitists in the first place? None of the Venezuelan situation makes sense @wat0n. I mean why vote for an military paratrooper Venezolano like Hugo Chavez if the majority of Venezuelans were doing so well in a Capitalist Venezuela selling oil to the US and doing well financially? The reality is that Venezuelans who were poor had very little to show in their lives for all the reality of Venezuela being the nation with the most petrol in the entire world.

I wanted to find out what happened with Hugo Chavez. So I picked up a book by a centrist moderate in politics. Written by him in Spanish. I read it. It was a thick book.

It gave you a good background on why Venezuela went with a populist socialist leader who was a devout Roman Catholic like Chavez. Why the elite Capitalist leaning conservative ruling class in Venezuela who were corrupt and callous about dealing with working class and underclass problems both in the rural countryside and the urban countryside was so intolerable and that the US tried to kill Chavez off.

The Venezuelan military was anti US government interferences and it was also pro Venezuelan working class because most its rank and file members were working class. Differing from Argentina it did not have a heavy influx of Nazis and far Right fascism happening in its military @wat0n .

This thread is about Cuba.

I do know there was an interesting phone call between Chavez and Fidel Castro when Chavez was facing being killed by the US-backed opposition.

You really should read these books about Latin American politics. It is fascinating really. Why these leaders who come from poverty and humble backgrounds wind up in positions of power and then the US government gets upset because they do not play ball the way the US government wants them to play ball, and they decide to assassinate them instead. In Chavez' case he survived.

Maduro I never really thought was adept at politics. It takes certain qualities to make it work. He lacked some. It still does not give the right of the US to dictate policy. The problem with Maduro government is what I put in the video about socialism that is not done correctly. If you do it incorrectly? It makes for tremendous dysfunction.

If you do it correctly? Without outside pressures fearing it might succeed? It is a resounding success.

There are a lot of models that work @wat0n you just need to read human history and study the models that work over time. I am a realistic person and pragmatic. I do not believe in idealistic politics. The idealistic people get killed fast. Trusting the wrong people because they believe in rhetoric and not science and fact based models. Myth takes over. Myth is a trap. In capitalism and in socialism. Myth is not the way to build solid foundations for human nations and human societies.

A very interesting film by Oliver Stone:

The best thing you can do is study the history of each nation and then observe how the US government interfered, why they interfere and what effects the interferences result in?

Or you can deny it all and blame the nations getting fucked over consistently and just believe that the Latin Americans are prone to dictatorship and so on like you used to say @wat0n when in reality it is about a HUMAN DEFECT of wanting to fight it out for power plays. Whether they are Anglo Gringo Americans or Latino men with fire of revolution in the blood.

I doubt seriously you find the time for what it takes to really love learning about the history of all nations.

I never give up learning about it all. It makes you understand PATTERNS that lead to truth.

If you want to understand why all these supposed Communists and Leftists keep cropping up in South America and Central America and now in Mexico? When Capitalism is supposedly the best fucking thing since sliced bread and can solve the problems when it is obvious that many of these nations only had capitalism for years and years....some are smart and argue that the capitalism was underdeveloped and badly done....but why was it badly done? Was it deliberately badly done or was it a master plan to exploit these nations for raw materials, and cheap labor and be able to suck it all out with impunity?

Those are the kinds of questions I am interested in answering Wat0n.

I am not interested in blaming poor people for being poor and fucking desperate and the reason they go to the USA is because they are happy with the lack of money they have and the frustration with the circumstances lived.

I do not believe in racist theories of inferior genes and inferior cultures and inferior this or that. I believe in SYSTEMS that do not work. And systems that DO WORK.

Human systems that work. Human systems that do not work.

That is what people should dedicate their problem solving time doing. Solving human problems or sticking their heads in the sand and denying that there are problems to be solved.

The immigrants on the border are not there because of any other reason than POVERTY and lack of ability to get a stable job, stable income, and the freedom to be able to work, live and educate their kids and themselves. If the home society provided that? Then they do not move. Why are not others interested in finding out how to solve the problem for immigrants coming from societies with a high level of economic and social dysfunction.

Because the US is not responsible. Yeah, right, you follow the money. You do that and you realize fuck, most of the people benefitting from these bad conditions are rich corporations and rich American and European banks, companies and so on. For what purpose?

Then you realize that the system that is in place is creating these issues. If it is creating these issues then how do you make it change and solve the dysfunction. That is what the question has to be.

The cheap ass propaganda of they envy us our freedom. They are rapists and criminals. Shithole nations. Bad hombres. And they are thieves, rapists, bad hombres, vermin, etc. it is all BULLSHIT FASCIST talk that will only lead to a civil war. That is the truth.

Denial does not work.

[wat0n]

Look Oliver Stone is no Communist. He is the son of capitalist Wall Street father.

The reality is if you do not study the entire history of Venezuelan reasons for doing the unthinkable and throwing off the Venezuelan Capitalist elitists in the first place? None of the Venezuelan situation makes sense @wat0n. I mean why vote for an military paratrooper Venezolano like Hugo Chavez if the majority of Venezuelans were doing so well in a Capitalist Venezuela selling oil to the US and doing well financially? The reality is that Venezuelans who were poor had very little to show in their lives for all the reality of Venezuela being the nation with the most petrol in the entire world.

I wanted to find out what happened with Hugo Chavez. So I picked up a book by a centrist moderate in politics. Written by him in Spanish. I read it. It was a thick book.

It gave you a good background on why Venezuela went with a populist socialist leader who was a devout Roman Catholic like Chavez. Why the elite Capitalist leaning conservative ruling class in Venezuela who were corrupt and callous about dealing with working class and underclass problems both in the rural countryside and the urban countryside was so intolerable and that the US tried to kill Chavez off.

The Venezuelan military was anti US government interferences and it was also pro Venezuelan working class because most its rank and file members were working class. Differing from Argentina it did not have a heavy influx of Nazis and far Right fascism happening in its military @wat0n .

People will often be dissatisfied with how things are, and will go for more.

Note the chavistas have had 25 years to fix Venezuela's problems and not only they didn't fix them, but impoverished the country and established a dictatorship.

This thread is about Cuba.

I do know there was an interesting phone call between Chavez and Fidel Castro when Chavez was facing being killed by the US-backed opposition.

You really should read these books about Latin American politics. It is fascinating really. Why these leaders who come from poverty and humble backgrounds wind up in positions of power and then the US government gets upset because they do not play ball the way the US government wants them to play ball, and they decide to assassinate them instead. In Chavez' case he survived.

Speaking of, Castro was part of Cuba's elites and not impoverished at all.

Maduro I never really thought was adept at politics. It takes certain qualities to make it work. He lacked some. It still does not give the right of the US to dictate policy. The problem with Maduro government is what I put in the video about socialism that is not done correctly. If you do it incorrectly? It makes for tremendous dysfunction.

If you do it correctly? Without outside pressures fearing it might succeed? It is a resounding success.

Maduro has no right to be a dictator, impoverish his country and then dump the poor on the rest of the continent. What's so hard to understand about that?

There are a lot of models that work @wat0n you just need to read human history and study the models that work over time. I am a realistic person and pragmatic. I do not believe in idealistic politics. The idealistic people get killed fast. Trusting the wrong people because they believe in rhetoric and not science and fact based models. Myth takes over. Myth is a trap. In capitalism and in socialism. Myth is not the way to build solid foundations for human nations and human societies.

A very interesting film by Oliver Stone:

The best thing you can do is study the history of each nation and then observe how the US government interfered, why they interfere and what effects the interferences result in?

Or you can deny it all and blame the nations getting fucked over consistently and just believe that the Latin Americans are prone to dictatorship and so on like you used to say @wat0n when in reality it is about a HUMAN DEFECT of wanting to fight it out for power plays. Whether they are Anglo Gringo Americans or Latino men with fire of revolution in the blood.

I doubt seriously you find the time for what it takes to really love learning about the history of all nations.

I agree, one should consider science and history. Like for example that socialism isn't scientific and that communist dictatorships have never transitioned away from the state.

I never give up learning about it all. It makes you understand PATTERNS that lead to truth.

For example, that communists never deliver on their promises.

If you want to understand why all these supposed Communists and Leftists keep cropping up in South America and Central America and now in Mexico? When Capitalism is supposedly the best fucking thing since sliced bread and can solve the problems when it is obvious that many of these nations only had capitalism for years and years....some are smart and argue that the capitalism was underdeveloped and badly done....but why was it badly done? Was it deliberately badly done or was it a master plan to exploit these nations for raw materials, and cheap labor and be able to suck it all out with impunity?

Those are the kinds of questions I am interested in answering Wat0n.

I am not interested in blaming poor people for being poor and fucking desperate and the reason they go to the USA is because they are happy with the lack of money they have and the frustration with the circumstances lived.

I do not believe in racist theories of inferior genes and inferior cultures and inferior this or that. I believe in SYSTEMS that do not work. And systems that DO WORK.

Human systems that work. Human systems that do not work.

That is what people should dedicate their problem solving time doing. Solving human problems or sticking their heads in the sand and denying that there are problems to be solved.

Denial does not work.

They prop up for the same reason demagogues were successful in Athens. Latin American demagogues are just as damaging as Athenian ones were.

[Tainari88]

Every western country besides the USA proves that you don't need a repressive communist dictatorship to provide quality universal healthcare and subsidized education for all.

UM, subsidized education and universal healthcare are socialist concepts. Capitalism if you follow it strictly and market forces you either pay or no play. Education if you can't pay for it? No. Health care if you can't pay for it? No. Capitalism in action. Socialism? You can get educated and be taken care in terms of health even if you are broke, poor and unemployed. Which one is more humane? Socialism.

Next.....

[wat0n]

UM, subsidized education and universal healthcare are socialist concepts. Capitalism if you follow it strictly and market forces you either pay or no play. Education if you can't pay for it? No. Health care if you can't pay for it? No. Capitalism in action. Socialism? You can get educated and be taken care in terms of health even if you are broke, poor and unemployed. Which one is more humane? Socialism.

Next.....

True, if you take that libertarian view that's correct. But that's not how capitalism works in the real world, just like socialism doesn't actually lead to the abolition of the state in the real world either.

[Unthinking Majority]

UM, subsidized education and universal healthcare are socialist concepts. Capitalism if you follow it strictly and market forces you either pay or no play. Education if you can't pay for it? No. Health care if you can't pay for it? No. Capitalism in action. Socialism? You can get educated and be taken care in terms of health even if you are broke, poor and unemployed. Which one is more humane? Socialism.

Next.....

It would be very foolish to advocate for a totally socialist or capitalist system because the data simply doesn't back up either as being very good solutions to all economic and human problems. Both Cuba and America have been too far on the economic left and right and their people suffer for it.

Cuba and the US aren't ideal models for how to run a country.

[Tainari88]

People will often be dissatisfied with how things are, and will go for more.

Note the chavistas have had 25 years to fix Venezuela's problems and not only they didn't fix them, but impoverished the country and established a dictatorship.

How many centuries did the elitists and capitalists control Venezuelan society BEFORE the Chavistas? All huge changes in society have root causes Wat0n. What were the impetus for leaving the status quo behind and going for Chavez and having huge swathes of poor Venezuelans vote for him and not for the Beauty Queen from Venezuela who ran against him the first time? You tell me. I am waiting to hear your explanation.

Speaking of, Castro was part of Cuba's elites and not impoverished at all.

Castro was the illegitimate son of an immigrant Spaniard from Galicia who acquired land and expanded. His mother was a Cuban worker maid who lived with her kids in some barracks near the big house where the Spanish father had his legit wife and other family. Learn your history Wat0n. Peggy Noonan that right wing conservative who hated Castro deeply, went to expose his supposed rich guy's roots and hold him responsible for being a lying hypocrite burgués. Instead she said he was the son of a Cuban woman who grew up with a bunch of ruffian Haitian and Jamaican sugar cane workers. Also, Castro insisted on his education from his father because the father was not wanting to pay for him to attend the private Roman Catholic schools he attended. He also applied the same rules to his father and mother's Oriente finca as he did to everyone else. They had to lose land big time and pay a lot of taxes to the Cuban state. Castro could have made much more money by being a puppet of Washington DC like Fulgencio Batista was. He rejected it. Mostly because he was a liberal at the beginning and also a lawyer and a revolutionary Cuban nationalist who was no one's puppet. He made deals with the USSR because it was practically the only way he had a hope in hell of surviving DC's attempts to assassinate him about 600 plus times Wat0n. READ history well because if you do not? You wind up believing shit propaganda that is easily dismissed as false. That is my suggestion to you. He graduated from the University of Havana and was always in danger of losing his life to Batista's men and spies on the campus. Do you know what things were like in the University of Havana in the 1950s? Fidel was born August 13,1926. He was in his twenties in the 1950s when Batista was in power. The Cuban Communist Party did not like Castro at all! At the time. Read history. Figure out what the fuck is going on there. Beause you do not know what you are talking about.



Maduro has no right to be a dictator, impoverish his country and then dump the poor on the rest of the continent. What's so hard to understand about that?

Maduro is an incompetent. I agree he sucks. But the US government had a lot of contribution to the instability of Venezuela's government. So if they created instability you think they should be cleansed of all responsibility? If you pump money into false news story, and lie outright about the conditions of a country's realities and then lie and say the first election in Venezuela was dirty and Chavez is a dictator when even the Jimmy Carter center that dedicates its mission to reviewing free and fair elections declared Chavez the legit president of Venezuela...and then the US Media says it was a stolen election when it was not simply because they did not want a populist Roman Catholic socialist president selling cheap oil to Cuba or even to Puerto Rico. Chavez tried to sell cheap oil to Puerto Rico too. To help us out economically. The US government stepped in and told Sila Calderón that she was wrong thinking she can make deals without the US government interfering. She said but the Puerto Ricans are suffering economically and the price of gasoline is too much for our economy. Chavez offered a remedy to her. She wanted to accept. She could not. The US overruled that economic decision. Learn about Latin America and what is going on behind the fucked up propaganda that many think is legitimate and it is just lies Wat0n. A bunch of lies to cover up the backstage moves going on. Anyway, Oliver Stone's movie South of the Border deals with that lie from the Media in the USA first. They kept calling Hugo Chavez Frías a dictator. He was not. He got the most votes. In a democracy that is supposed to mean you win the elections. It is not the way it works in the USA government system. But it is the way it is supposed to happen in many nations South of the Border.



I agree, one should consider science and history. Like for example that socialism isn't scientific and that communist dictatorships have never transitioned away from the state.



For example, that communists never deliver on their promises.



They prop up for the same reason demagogues were successful in Athens. Latin American demagogues are just as damaging as Athenian ones were.

Politics are complicated and the truth is that each side is pulling for their own interests.

Scientific socialism is another word for Communism. Why? Because Marx kept saying the societies that are human societies the state should be using science to solve human social and economic issues. Not religion and not mythology.

Capitalism is about capital. Material goods and expansion without end. Profit motive for every aspect of human society. It becomes the superstructure of everything. Profit and expansion and class systems forever and ever amen. Is that the best we can do?

The issue becomes why people keep insisting on a system that is the dominant one when it is leading to collapse now because constant use and abuse of the natural environment and poverty ridden societies with desperate people fleeing to nations where the money is located is not a sustainable global model.

Why keep insisting on fucked up failed systems and not allow scientific bases to deal with government. Let the myth and the cheap ass propaganda be separated forever from government planning. Myth has no place in pragmatic systems. That is what I posit.

Learn a lot more about things Wat0n.

Que te lavaron el cerebro con mucho mito de que el sistema es algo que no tiene que cambiar y el comunismo no sirve y solo el capitalismo es la respuesta.

What is coming in the future is having to adapt or perish.

And adapting to the same ole capitalist system (the dominant one on the planet) is for fools. It has to change.

Use science to get rid of the problems that are the worst of the lot. Inequality based on income inequality. And poverty and instability. And pollution and scarcity of clean water, clean air and clean land.

Make things LIVABLE for all. Not just a tiny group. That is the solution.

[wat0n]

How many centuries did the elitists and capitalists control Venezuelan society BEFORE the Chavistas? All huge changes in society have root causes Wat0n. What were the impetus for leaving the status quo behind and going for Chavez and having huge swathes of poor Venezuelans vote for him and not for the Beauty Queen from Venezuela who ran against him the first time? You tell me. I am waiting to hear your explanation.

Simple, Venezuelans voted for Chavez because:

1) They got tired of the corruption of the old elites
2) They got tired of the high inflation of the old elites
3) They got tired of becoming poorer after the peak in living standards during the 1970s oil shock
4) The elites did not steal the election

And you're missing the point: The chavistas wasted the oil windfall profits from the 2000s, in an even worse manner than Carlos Andrés Pérez did in the 1970s, and Venezuelans became a lot poorer as a result.

Castro was the illegitimate son of an immigrant Spaniard from Galicia who acquired land and expanded. His mother was a Cuban worker maid who lived with her kids in some barracks near the big house where the Spanish father had his legit wife and other family. Learn your history Wat0n. Peggy Noonan that right wing conservative who hated Castro deeply, went to expose his supposed rich guy's roots and hold him responsible for being a lying hypocrite burgués. Instead she said he was the son of a Cuban woman who grew up with a bunch of ruffian Haitian and Jamaican sugar cane workers. Also, Castro insisted on his education from his father because the father was not wanting to pay for him to attend the private Roman Catholic schools he attended. He also applied the same rules to his father and mother's Oriente finca as he did to everyone else. They had to lose land big time and pay a lot of taxes to the Cuban state. Castro could have made much more money by being a puppet of Washington DC like Fulgencio Batista was. He rejected it. Mostly because he was a liberal at the beginning and also a lawyer and a revolutionary Cuban nationalist who was no one's puppet. He made deals with the USSR because it was practically the only way he had a hope in hell of surviving DC's attempts to assassinate him about 600 plus times Wat0n. READ history well because if you do not? You wind up believing shit propaganda that is easily dismissed as false. That is my suggestion to you. He graduated from the University of Havana and was always in danger of losing his life to Batista's men and spies on the campus. Do you know what things were like in the University of Havana in the 1950s? Fidel was born August 13,1926. He was in his twenties in the 1950s when Batista was in power. The Cuban Communist Party did not like Castro at all! At the time. Read history. Figure out what the fuck is going on there. Beause you do not know what you are talking about.

Oh come on, Castro attended several private schools and then went to the university - all in the 1940s! That was hardly a working class education in Latin America at the time. Most of the working class would be lucky to finish elementary school in the 1940s, and many were illiterate (something the communists did fix, by the way).

Castro was most definitely not from a working class background.

Maduro is an incompetent. I agree he sucks. But the US government had a lot of contribution to the instability of Venezuela's government. So if they created instability you think they should be cleansed of all responsibility? If you pump money into false news story, and lie outright about the conditions of a country's realities and then lie and say the first election in Venezuela was dirty and Chavez is a dictator when even the Jimmy Carter center that dedicates its mission to reviewing free and fair elections declared Chavez the legit president of Venezuela...and then the US Media says it was a stolen election when it was not simply because they did not want a populist Roman Catholic socialist president selling cheap oil to Cuba or even to Puerto Rico. Chavez tried to sell cheap oil to Puerto Rico too. To help us out economically. The US government stepped in and told Sila Calderón that she was wrong thinking she can make deals without the US government interfering. She said but the Puerto Ricans are suffering economically and the price of gasoline is too much for our economy. Chavez offered a remedy to her. She wanted to accept. She could not. The US overruled that economic decision. Learn about Latin America and what is going on behind the fucked up propaganda that many think is legitimate and it is just lies Wat0n. A bunch of lies to cover up the backstage moves going on. Anyway, Oliver Stone's movie South of the Border deals with that lie from the Media in the USA first. They kept calling Hugo Chavez Frías a dictator. He was not. He got the most votes. In a democracy that is supposed to mean you win the elections. It is not the way it works in the USA government system. But it is the way it is supposed to happen in many nations South of the Border.

Maybe Chavez should have prioritized transitioning away from the dependence on oil instead of trying to help an US territory? Just saying.

Politics are complicated and the truth is that each side is pulling for their own interests.

Scientific socialism is another word for Communism. Why? Because Marx kept saying the societies that are human societies the state should be using science to solve human social and economic issues. Not religion and not mythology.

Capitalism is about capital. Material goods and expansion without end. Profit motive for every aspect of human society. It becomes the superstructure of everything. Profit and expansion and class systems forever and ever amen. Is that the best we can do?

The issue becomes why people keep insisting on a system that is the dominant one when it is leading to collapse now because constant use and abuse of the natural environment and poverty ridden societies with desperate people fleeing to nations where the money is located is not a sustainable global model.

Why keep insisting on fucked up failed systems and not allow scientific bases to deal with government. Let the myth and the cheap ass propaganda be separated forever from government planning. Myth has no place in pragmatic systems. That is what I posit.

Learn a lot more about things Wat0n.

Que te lavaron el cerebro con mucho mito de que el sistema es algo que no tiene que cambiar y el comunismo no sirve y solo el capitalismo es la respuesta.

What is coming in the future is having to adapt or perish.

And adapting to the same ole capitalist system (the dominant one on the planet) is for fools. It has to change.

Use science to get rid of the problems that are the worst of the lot. Inequality based on income inequality. And poverty and instability. And pollution and scarcity of clean water, clean air and clean land.

Make things LIVABLE for all. Not just a tiny group. That is the solution.

Why is it that socialist regimes never abolish the state and finally implement communism?

This was one of Marx's predictions but it never happens. Why?

[Tainari88]

@wat0n why if Castro was a ruling class man? Why go for socialism? Why not go for being a puppet? Of the USA? No, Castro went to private schools because he insisted on it and his father did not want to pay. How do I know this? Reading for years. The priests at the RC schools were mostly Franciscans and had vows of poverty. Politically man were fascists. That is fact. Now, very few people had access to an education in those days. Part of the reason why Cuban society was not going well in the 1940s.

If Castro was wealthy and that was his main motivator in his life? MONEY. Why not retain his wealth by being like Batista eh? The reasons were obvious Wat0n. Castro was politically not a man who wanted money and puppethood. He was a true nationalist Cuban and he was jailed and had a lot of opportunities to make a deal happen with the US CIA and government. He never did do that. That is the issue the US has to deal with in the future. Whether it is Omar Torrijos from Panama, Fidel Castro, Salvador Allende, the Sandinistas, the Left in Brazil, the left in Peru, the left in Colombia with Gustavo Petro, Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, and the list is endless Wat0n....why can't the USA government accept working with the leaders from the Left in Latin America that do not want to be puppets of the USA?

You got to stop the puppet demands. That is not working. Because unless the poverty is eradicated to an acceptable level or completely gone? The Leftist message appeals to the vast majority of the working people in Latin America. Since, they are in democratic systems they VOTE for their own class interests. Working class interests. Which means LEFT. Socialist, Commies and strong Liberals. Not right wing pro corporate elitists Wat0n. If they want a different result they need to fix the reason for the majority voting for the Lefties if they are poor people. That is REALITY and not MYTH.

The way the US government and the CIA intelligence community has dealt with dissent in politics in this hemisphere is with basically threatening and trying to knock people off. That is reality.

Do you approve of that shit? I want the ones who say YES to the USA interests or DEATH? Is that good foreign policy? How is that working in the Middle East currently....let me think?

You can sit here all day always saying in some way that the fault lies with the countries themselves and the US is innocent of all charges. They are not. All you have to do is see and count how many interventions they do where money, and arms and sometimes actual invasions from the US military occurred.

Puerto Rico was invaded. By US troops that said they were liberating us from Spanish oppression. They said the same thing to the Filipinos, the Cubans, the Guamanians, etc. Did they let us go without any strings attached? No. They lied.

So the evidence is that they intervene. On purpose. Does that work for a democracy that says it believes in democracy and prohibits a US president from becoming president in the US if that person is born outside of the US nation? They apply rules to themselves that they refuse to respect in other nations.

That is a formula for failure that is internal. It is called internal rot. Are they suffering from internal rot? Yes they are.

The supposed dictatorships that suck that you want to say has nothing to do with US pressure being applied is really about survival. If you live with the fear of being toppled, deposed and or assassinated all day long because the foreign governments are targeting your ass for assassination what happens?

You circle the wagons and get paranoid. You lock down any means to penetrate your nationalistic powers.

You actually encourage rigidity.

You also encourage authoritarianism. You would think they would understand that with what happened with the Shah in Iran in the 1950s, Vietnamese nationalism in the war in Vietnam, and Indian independence against the British colonial empire, and so many other lessons in history. But they don't learn anything. They keep thinking that being fucking hypocrites is important. To talk shit inside their own country and then DO the opposite in foreign affairs.

What happens if the people in the US government making these decisions get used to using the strong arm tactics and ignore democracy abroad they then want to do it at home. They hate democracy in general at home. A cumbersome, compromise always, negotiate, and keeping church and state separated, and doing this or that is just a CHORE. Easier to just go fascist and authoritarian. That is what they do abroad and do that all the time. Why not bring it home?

How you treat others outside of your own native society will eventually come back to bite you in the ass at home. That is reality and not MYTH.

[wat0n]

@wat0n why if Castro was a ruling class man? Why go for socialism? Why not go for being a puppet? Of the USA? No, Castro went to private schools because he insisted on it and his father did not want to pay. How do I know this? Reading for years. The priests at the RC schools were mostly Franciscans and had vows of poverty. Politically man were fascists. That is fact. Now, very few people had access to an education in those days. Part of the reason why Cuban society was not going well in the 1940s.

If Castro was wealthy and that was his main motivator in his life? MONEY. Why not retain his wealth by being like Batista eh? The reasons were obvious Wat0n. Castro was politically not a man who wanted money and puppethood. He was a true nationalist Cuban and he was jailed and had a lot of opportunities to make a deal happen with the US CIA and government. He never did do that. That is the issue the US has to deal with in the future. Whether it is Omar Torrijos from Panama, Fidel Castro, Salvador Allende, the Sandinistas, the Left in Brazil, the left in Peru, the left in Colombia with Gustavo Petro, Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, and the list is endless Wat0n....why can't the USA government accept working with the leaders from the Left in Latin America that do not want to be puppets of the USA?

Great question indeed, why did Castro - wealthy like most other revolutionaries - choose the way of revolution?

Firstly, because when you end as a dictator you can get way wealthier.

Secondly, because those revolutionaries - despite being wealthy - are normally frustrated. Castro, himself, had good reasons to be despite being wealthy: Being an illegitimate son (especially back then), then having all sorts of behavioral issues in school, then failing to be elected while studying in college. He didn't get recognition, that is by itself frustrating.

You got to stop the puppet demands. That is not working. Because unless the poverty is eradicated to an acceptable level or completely gone? The Leftist message appeals to the vast majority of the working people in Latin America. Since, they are in democratic systems they VOTE for their own class interests. Working class interests. Which means LEFT. Socialist, Commies and strong Liberals. Not right wing pro corporate elitists Wat0n. If they want a different result they need to fix the reason for the majority voting for the Lefties if they are poor people. That is REALITY and not MYTH.

That all reads nice, and I would even say you have a point as to why many people became leftist - but this all falls on its face when you consider that those leftist leaders never delivered. The closest ones to do so had to adopt a fair measure of capitalism and markets (China, Vietnam).

Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean you HAVE to vote left. MAGA is a great example of this.

The way the US government and the CIA intelligence community has dealt with dissent in politics in this hemisphere is with basically threatening and trying to knock people off. That is reality.

Do you approve of that shit? I want the ones who say YES to the USA interests or DEATH? Is that good foreign policy? How is that working in the Middle East currently....let me think?

You can sit here all day always saying in some way that the fault lies with the countries themselves and the US is innocent of all charges. They are not. All you have to do is see and count how many interventions they do where money, and arms and sometimes actual invasions from the US military occurred.

Puerto Rico was invaded. By US troops that said they were liberating us from Spanish oppression. They said the same thing to the Filipinos, the Cubans, the Guamanians, etc. Did they let us go without any strings attached? No. They lied.

So the evidence is that they intervene. On purpose. Does that work for a democracy that says it believes in democracy and prohibits a US president from becoming president in the US if that person is born outside of the US nation? They apply rules to themselves that they refuse to respect in other nations.

That is a formula for failure that is internal. It is called internal rot. Are they suffering from internal rot? Yes they are.

The supposed dictatorships that suck that you want to say has nothing to do with US pressure being applied is really about survival. If you live with the fear of being toppled, deposed and or assassinated all day long because the foreign governments are targeting your ass for assassination what happens?

You circle the wagons and get paranoid. You lock down any means to penetrate your nationalistic powers.

You actually encourage rigidity.

You also encourage authoritarianism. You would think they would understand that with what happened with the Shah in Iran in the 1950s, Vietnamese nationalism in the war in Vietnam, and Indian independence against the British colonial empire, and so many other lessons in history. But they don't learn anything. They keep thinking that being fucking hypocrites is important. To talk shit inside their own country and then DO the opposite in foreign affairs.

What happens if the people in the US government making these decisions get used to using the strong arm tactics and ignore democracy abroad they then want to do it at home. They hate democracy in general at home. A cumbersome, compromise always, negotiate, and keeping church and state separated, and doing this or that is just a CHORE. Easier to just go fascist and authoritarian. That is what they do abroad and do that all the time. Why not bring it home?

How you treat others outside of your own native society will eventually come back to bite you in the ass at home. That is reality and not MYTH.

Would you elaborate a bit here?

Particularly, what's the problem the US is trying to solve when intervening abroad?

I don't think it's about making those countries richer or even democratic, and I don't think many expect those interventions to lead to that. Even more so after the last 20 years, but even before then, Cold War interventions were not really about bringing prosperity.

In fact, I'd say it's the other way around - the US would try to bring prosperity precisely to avoid having to intervene.