Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 32 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14913710
QatzelOk wrote:Most critics of Cuba on this thread have focussed on videos that were made that show a few people complaining. But you can find a few people complaining in any country on earth.


I've posted the results of 2 large opinion polls that show that the majority of Cubans don't care for the Castros, don't like the one party system, and don't like the economic system. They also show that the majority of Cubans would like to leave Cuba. So your argument is completely bogus.

Even if I didn't have those opinion polls, the witness testimony of extreme political repression and persecution, poverty, and general discontent would be enough for any honest person to conclude that Cubans aren't enjoying the gulag.

and if I didn't have the dozen or so video testimonies, we could just look at the Cuban political system, the legal code, and the mass exoduses to see that life in Cuba es no bueno.

You, guy, are completely full of shit.


QatzelOk wrote: It means absolutely nothing since the same posters have not also featured a video of Haitians "rejoicing" about their capitalist system (the one that was forced on them again and again by various empires).


You're confusing imperialism with capitalism, capitalism isn't inherently imperialistic. But I don't see how the suffering caused by imperialism negates the suffering caused by Cuban gulagism?
#14914502
Sivad wrote:I've posted the results of 2 large opinion polls that show that the majority of Cubans don't care for the Castros, don't like the one party system, and don't like the economic system. They also show that the majority of Cubans would like to leave Cuba.

The Castros are no longer in power, and are deeply loved now that they're not in power. The sacrifice and vision of Fidel Castro is why Cubans have the highest standard of living in the Caribbean, even with pissy American capitalist sanctions.
capitalism isn't inherently imperialistic

This is so false that one has to have one's head stuck in the upper intestine to actually believe it. The lower ass region won't even work.

Capitalism killed 110 nations in the Americas to build railroads, and has killed millions of Arabs and others to feed SUVs. Capitalism is pure poison, and can never respect:
anyone's human rights or sovereignty. (thus, total imperialism)
Or the natural environment. (thus we lunge stupidly towards our own extinctions)
Or the family.
Or community. (two sources of education that have been rendered null so that we're dumb consumers)
Or our humanity and instincts. (thus, anti-depressant abuse and opiods)

Cubans have more of all of these things than the USA which has the things that are in brackets.
#14914534
@Sivad
I've posted the results of 2 large opinion polls that show that the majority of Cubans don't care for the Castros, don't like the one party system, and don't like the economic system. They also show that the majority of Cubans would like to leave Cuba. So your argument is completely bogus. 


These polls....American or Cuban?

I take it you are unfamiliar with how their political system works.
#14914541
Stormsmith wrote:@Sivad
These polls....American or Cuban?


The polls were conducted in Cuba with the permission of the Cuban government. Go have a look for yourself.


I take it you are unfamiliar with how their political system works.


It's understandable why you'd think that, this is pofo after all. But no, I have a fair understanding of it.
#14914547
I think the main difference between you and me, skinster, is that I'm interested in actual reality, not just defending some retarded ideology. Some people are into cars or sports or fashion or marxism, I'm into reality. So I study history, science, philosophy, politics, to gain understanding and in the process I learn a lot of trivia and fun facts. I kick ass at jeopardy.
#14914550
Sivad wrote:I think the main difference between you and me, skinster, is that I'm interested in actual reality, not just defending some retarded ideology.


Except that's exactly what you're doing.

Why not visit Cuba and see for yourself what Cuba is like? If I remember correctly, most people ITT who argue with your extremely negative opinion on Cuba have been there and seen an "actual reality" that's opposite to the one you have, one you have based on no experience of the island besides youtube videos.
#14914650
Sivad wrote:No it's not, I would love for there to be a successful healthy socialist society that I could point to and show all the wingnuts how well socialism works.


I lived in one.

Then the US capitalists came and destroyed it. They used the free press to undermine democracy. They did not worry about gun control becuase they co-opted the military. They stuck people in gulags.

I am living proof that capitalism is imperialistic.

As is my wife. She is part of a nation that also had the military and police sent after them to kill them all in the name of capitalism. Now they have to pay to live on their own land, those who are lucky enough to still do so. Most has to leave.

You really should read Eduardo Galeano’s trilogy if you think capitalism is not imperialistic. Or read the news about MENA countries. When was the last time that capitalists were not at war?
#14914732
Sivad wrote:The polls were conducted in Cuba with the permission of the Cuban government. Go have a look for yourself

I wonder if you still have them. I googled, but couldn't find them, and thirty some pages is too long




It's understandable why you'd think that, this is pofo after all. But no, I have a fair understanding of it.

I think it because you've only said it's communist and one party, which is too pat a description

Ok. Why is one party a problem?

How are laws created?

How are minister selected?
#14914806
Stormsmith wrote:Ok. Why is one party a problem?


It's not.
Constitution of the Republic of Cuba, 1992
ARTICLE 5. The Communist Party of Cuba, a follower of Martí’s ideas and of Marxism-Leninism, and the organized vanguard of the Cuban nation, is the highest leading force of society and of the state, which organizes and guides the common effort toward the goals of the construction of socialism and the progress toward a communist society


How are laws created?


The National Assembly rubber stamps the diktats of the Politburo.

How are minister selected?


Who cares, it's a sham democracy.
#14914813
Sivad wrote:No you didn't.

No you're not.


Lol.

How do you think I know so much about Allende?

But regardless of your accusations of me lying, it is a fact that Allende created (or attempted to create) a democratic socialist state, and the US capitalists co-opted the military and instituted a capitalist dictatorship. And they suborned the press. And had torture and death camps. And all of this was done to increase the wealth of US corporations.
#14914818
Pants-of-dog wrote:Lol.

How do you think I know so much about Allende?


You don't.


But regardless of your accusations of me lying, it is a fact that Allende created (or attempted to create) a democratic socialist state


He attempted to create a gulag state without popular support so it wasn't democratic or socialist.

and the US capitalists co-opted the military and instituted a capitalist dictatorship.


The US baked the Chilean fascists. The Chilean fascists instituted a capitalist dictatorship.

And they suborned the press. And had torture and death camps. And all of this was done to increase the wealth of US corporations.


It's pretty funny that you have no idea how a major coup in your own country came about.
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