[Donna]

[XogGyux]

Nah. There is no way Cuba would have achieved Canada's level of development had it remained in the American sphere of influence. What really unleashes the forces of modernization and development is a combination of strong government, abundant geography and scaled exploitation (a lot of logistics, a lot of land and a lot of bodies), conditions which existed in America and Canada but not in Cuba.

The idea that poor countries just need better political management is one that is largely ignorant of the complexities of global capitalism and the different strengths in political structures under different stages of social development. With that said, there is a massive track record of failure in opening up formerly colonized nations to the global system, whether they emerge from situations with weak or chaotic government or the dissolution of stagnant interventionist experiments. The result is always a sensitively tuned catastrophe for people in those societies.

I am not interested in what could have or would have happened but rather in what did happen. The point was, it is not so much what "they have achieved" since the revolution, but rather what "they managed to keep". Cuba does not build any sort of medical equipment. No MRIs are built in Cuba, No planes, No cars. Construction projects in the island are limited and skewed towards tourism. The repair of the "Old Havana" was tourism-driven, the goverment wanted to showcase the colonial buildings so that tourists would come (even then the work was sloppy and very limited to few areas). A lot of the equipment is legacy ancient shit from USSR times, smuggled or donated in very small quantities. This idea of "medical powerhouse" that some people want to spearhead is frankly ridiculous.

[Donna]

Cuba does not build any sort of medical equipment. No MRIs are built in Cuba...A lot of the equipment is legacy ancient shit from USSR times, smuggled or donated in very small quantities. This idea of "medical powerhouse" that some people want to spearhead is frankly ridiculous.

It is though. Cuba is a biopharma leader and has the ability to produce large quantities of low margin medical goods, a capacity that is critical in disaster situations. Importantly for the culture of global health and co-operation, it deploys its human capital of health workers and specialists toward international humanitarian ends.

[XogGyux]

It is though. Cuba is a biopharma leader and has the ability to produce large quantities of low margin medical goods, a capacity that is critical in disaster situations. Importantly for the culture of global health and co-operation, it deploys its human capital of health workers and specialists toward international humanitarian ends.

I don't know what capacity Cuba really has of producing anything. All of these nice looking medication bottles you see in videos and TV are mostly propaganda. I am not aware of the full capability of the country to produce certain medications. I would not be surprised if there is a "surprising" degree of production of certain drugs. Most likely than not, many of these drugs get exported and used outside of Cuba. Not necessarily sold, sometimes just donated with donation of doctors work as well. But this is part of the facade. This is a goverment trying to paint a picture of prosperity and breakthrough innovation that truly does not exist.
This is not the first time either, nor will it be the last. In the early 2000's the goverment displaced the residents that lived in the Focsa building. This building is the tallest building in Vedado, la Havana. It is in a great geographic location in the heart of the best part of the city. The goverment took the people out (exchanged their apartment for far inferior properties in alamar and other less desirable locations) and then made some renovations and used the building to hold Venezuelan students...
Really? How fking splendid, take screw up your own citizens and to cater to others to promote your propaganda...
The propaganda also came with oil, Venezuela was pumping a lot of oil as well.

The point is, not everything that appears shiny is a diamond. In the case of Cuba, it is just a shard of glass
This seems far closer to the pharmacies that I remember.

Admittedly it has been a few years since I have been there. But judging by the fact that the few families and friend that I have left in Cuba asks me to send them amoxicillin, tylenol and furosemide fairly I'd take a bet that it is not much different now.

[QatzelOk]

Currently, there's a huge worldwide demand for Cuban medicos.

Southern Chiefs Organization asked PM for Cuban doctors
to be allowed in to help First Nations


First World rich white lady says no

Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland appeared Monday to reject a request by a group of First Nations in Manitoba for Canada to allow Cuban doctors into their communities to bolster their health care services in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Southern Chiefs Organization (SCO) Grand Chief Jerry Daniels sent a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau Friday requesting the federal government open its doors to Cuban Health Brigades, which are currently in several countries, including Italy, responding to the COVID-19 epidemic. ...

In Canada, a First World rich white nation with tons of pipettes, the First Nations have requested that Cuban medicos be allowed to work on their underfunded reserves in order to bolster their health care. The Canadian government has said no, of course.

We are a First World rich white nation with tons of pipettes, after all. And our governments are mostly profit-oriented, not socially-oriented. Golden handshakes are us, just like the USA and Western Europe.

How did NYC, Italy, and Spain deal with the virus? Did they just whip out their pipettes and save everyone, or did they put everyone in lockdown to avoid a revolution if the virus overwhelmed their miserly healthcare systems?

Canada has half the number of doctors per capita as Cuba, which has the highest number (per 100,000 people) on the planet. More than one in 200 people in Cuba is a doctor.

[Julian658]

Currently, there's a huge worldwide demand for Cuban medicos.



In Canada, a First World rich white nations with tons of pipettes, the First Nations have requested that Cuban medicos be allowed to work on their underfunded reserves in order to bolster their health care. The Canadian government has said no, of course.

We are a First World rich white nation with tons of pipettes, after all.

How did NYC, Italy, and Spain deal with the virus? Did they just whip out their pipettes and save everyone, or did they put everyone in lockdown to avoid a revolution if the virus overwhelmed their miserly healthcare systems?

Cuba has more docs per capita than any nation in the world. There are so many docs in Cuba that they send them to other nations or the docs have to work part time as waiters in the tourist areas. Many docs have to drive a taxi to make ends meet.

However, no one can deny Cuba has done a lot with what little they have. And let's not forget the benefits of an authoritarian government where crime is simply not tolerated. On of the sad byproducts of freedom is crime. Cuba does not put up with crime. They have also created a nation of near quality, however Cubans of Spanish ancestry are ahead of Afro-cubans. They have also eliminated racism by not classifying people according to skin color, hair texture, of phenotype. In Cuba everybody is Cuban, nothing else. Black Cubans don't even know they are black, they describe themselves as Cubans and hence they are much happier than black Americans. Yes, there are a lot of positives in Cuba.

[QatzelOk]

Many docs have to drive a taxi to make ends meet.

So this gives Cuba surge capacity that "efficient" capitalist countries don't have.

Is surge capacity good or bad, Doctor Julian?

Is it better to have extra doctors, or is it better to let the rich pay less taxes so that they have more money to spend on marketing campaigns and bribes to politicians?

[Zionist Nationalist]

Cuba is great but none of you want to live there

[Julian658]

I don't know what capacity Cuba really has of producing anything. All of these nice looking medication bottles you see in videos and TV are mostly propaganda. I am not aware of the full capability of the country to produce certain medications. I would not be surprised if there is a "surprising" degree of production of certain drugs. Most likely than not, many of these drugs get exported and used outside of Cuba. Not necessarily sold, sometimes just donated with donation of doctors work as well. But this is part of the facade. This is a goverment trying to paint a picture of prosperity and breakthrough innovation that truly does not exist.
This is not the first time either, nor will it be the last. In the early 2000's the goverment displaced the residents that lived in the Focsa building. This building is the tallest building in Vedado, la Havana. It is in a great geographic location in the heart of the best part of the city. The goverment took the people out (exchanged their apartment for far inferior properties in alamar and other less desirable locations) and then made some renovations and used the building to hold Venezuelan students...
Really? How fking splendid, take screw up your own citizens and to cater to others to promote your propaganda...
The propaganda also came with oil, Venezuela was pumping a lot of oil as well.

The point is, not everything that appears shiny is a diamond. In the case of Cuba, it is just a shard of glass
This seems far closer to the pharmacies that I remember.

Admittedly it has been a few years since I have been there. But judging by the fact that the few families and friend that I have left in Cuba asks me to send them amoxicillin, tylenol and furosemide fairly I'd take a bet that it is not much different now.

There are videos of the typical lifestyle of Cubans made by European tourists on You Tube. These are unfiltered and quite interesting. People are happy and warm to all tourists. The revolution has been great for those that lived in extreme poverty before Castro. Anyone that is in the bottom of the hierarchy benefits from socialism because they have NOTHING to lose.

[Julian658]

So this gives Cuba surge capacity that "efficient" capitalist countries don't have.

Is surge capacity good or bad, Doctor Julian?

Is it better to have extra doctors, or is it better to let the rich pay less taxes so that they have more money to spend on marketing campaigns and bribes to politicians?

If I was at the bottom of the socioeconomic hierarchy i would be a communist. Why? Because I have NOTHING to lose. However, anyone that is not at the bottom loses big time in a socialist nation.

Cuba has more docs per capita than anyone in the world and they earn about 28 dollars a month. Many have to work as waiters in the tourist areas as this pays much better. Nevertheless, communism is great for those that are at the bottom; I will not deny that. Anyone else has a lot of to lose.

[Pants-of-dog]

Go ahead sir. If possible, pay it forward by helping someone get out as well .


Actually that is a micropipette. The difference is that micropipettes are used for tiny volumes. Those did exist in Cuba with the caveat that the tips used were scarce resources.
I was talking about regular size glass pipettes such as this one:

This is something that I saw first hand.

Now. That is not to say everything was Rose smelling. Wealth inequality was a big issue and the governments were corrupt. But the fact is the regime took control of this infrastructure that already existed.

This is what I understand as a pipette gun. The device connects to an existing, usually glass (I've seen polycarbonate/plastic) pipette and functions as a suction device. This is a relatively "first word" solution.
In Cuba, most likely they would have had original a bulb-type pipette. Like these:

However, overtime the rubber degrades or people lose them. Labs would have probably have hundreds of glass pipettes but just a handful of bulbs because you can use the same bulb on different pipettes. So even tough many of the glass pipettes broke over the decades, many still exist. The bulbs, however not.
There is yet another mechanism:

Listen. I lived in that place 17 years. I was born there. I have been inside the hospitals. You are not going to sell me any of this shit propaganda.

Well, we have different experiences and I found photo evidence showing that they do have pipette guns.

Well, you are factually wrong. Not everyone that speak Spanish is a Mexican either. . Joke aside, here are the facts:

Considering the fact that there are only two developed countries in the hemisphere, this evidence is not that strong. And a high per capita income does not erase things like inequality.

[Julian658]

Considering the fact that there are only two developed countries in the hemisphere, this evidence is not that strong. And a high per capita income does not erase things like inequality.

POD: Equality is not natural. Humans exist in a hierarchy of talent. Trying to reach equality is futile.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

It would definitely seem like some people are not equal to the task of discussing how Cuba’s relative economic standing is a product of its history.

[SolarCross]

There is no equality in socialist / communist countries either. I do not think trading away freedom for equality is a good deal at all but it is even worse than that because the socialists / communists will deny you equality too. They always fail to live up to their promises.

End tyranny? Say hello to arbitrary executions and show trials.

Increase political enfranchisment? Say hello to one party dictatorship.

Increase the wealth of the poorest? Say hello to famine and slave labour camps.

[Pants-of-dog]

@SolarCross

Since you have openly supported right wing dictatorships on these boards, I would assume that arbitrary detentions and executions, show trials, et cetera, were all okay with you.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

It would definitely seem like some people are not equal to the task of discussing how Cuba’s relative economic standing is a product of its history.

POD: I have said that Cubans are among the most resourceful people in the world. However, they were given a bad blow, history is cruel, I do not disagree. Nevertheless, they should not live in the past. They need new leadership to move ahead into the 21st century. Victimhood is not healthy.



I am not one to post videos, but here is one made by European tourists that love Cuba.
Traveling outside Cuba tourist traps

[Pants-of-dog]

POD: I have said that Cubans are among the most resourceful people in the world. However, they were given a bad blow, history is cruel, I do not disagree. Nevertheless, they should not live in the past. They need new leadership to move ahead into the 21st century. Victimhood is not healthy.

Yes, you did say all those things.

But the Cubans are not listening to you and other USA residents who have been saying these things for decades.

Maybe you guys need to stop repeating this, stop living in the past, stop focusing on how Cuba made you guys a victim, et cetera.

I am not one to post videos, but here is one made by European tourists that love Cuba.
Traveling outside Cuba tourist traps

I guess people in the USA are jealous that they cannot go?

[SolarCross]

Since you have openly supported right wing dictatorships on these boards, I would assume that arbitrary detentions and executions, show trials, et cetera, were all okay with you.

Only Pinochet and only because he saved Chile from communism and 2000 dead marxist terrorists is a small price to pay for that.

The only kind of authoritarian regime that is tolerable is one that stays the hell out of civilian business and just maintains an army for national defence. A minarchist nightwatchmen state as the libertarians call it. Most regimes in history have been this kind very broadly speaking and most people got along just fine with it. If the government is going to start being hyper active in the civilian economy then it absolutely has to be maximally democratic or else it is just unbearable. This is the essential problem with communist regimes they want to be as authoritarian as an absolutist monarchy but at the same even more interfering than a liberal democracy. Communism is the worst of all possible regimes in this way.

[Pants-of-dog]

@SolarCross

So, yes, you do support dictatorships.

It is nice that you no longer feel any pretence to care about human rights.

[SolarCross]

So, yes, you do support dictatorships.

It is nice that you no longer feel any pretence to care about human rights.

Are you pretending? I guess so.