Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 93 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15122147
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, I am not going to watch that film so that I can look for the evidence for you.

This is more like what I meant:

    We evaluated how the fraction of households experiencing food scarcity has changed from just before the pandemic to the first week of June (May 28–June 2); we measured “food scarcity” by the percentage of survey respondents reporting “sometimes not enough to eat” or “often not enough to eat.” We use the term food scarcity rather than “food insecurity,” as food insecurity is typically defined and assessed using a specific set of questions in the Current Population Survey, and the Household Pulse Survey data are not directly comparable to that definition.

    According to the Household Pulse Survey conducted from May 28 to June 2, around 9% of U.S. households experienced food scarcity prior to the pandemic, and around 10.4% of households experienced food scarcity during the first week of June. Food scarcity rates varied considerably according to household characteristics...

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-econo ... e-57468989

POD
This is a film about actual Cubans describing the food situation on the island. None of the Cubans on the video are cachectic or emaciated. However, food is rationed and beef is a luxury only available to the elite.

Espero que el psiquiatra cambie tu medicación. Estás muy despistado y parece que sueñas con pajaritos preñados a toda hora. ¿Tienes alucinaciones? ¿Escuchas voces?
#15122148
jimjam wrote:Good point ….. they do look desperate and miserable , don't they? :lol:

BTW I don't think you answered my question ….. have you ever stepped foot on Cuban soil of is your entire store of knowledge gained from Cuban "expatriates" whose leader Batista fled Havana on a private jet with over $1,000,000,000 in today's dollars?

There is no shortage of Cuban socialism lovers. I will agree that socialism is great for those that live in the gutter in a capitalist country. However, if you are middle class and above socialism is hell. If you are in the gutter you have NOTHING to lose. That is how Chávez got into power.
#15122153
Borgen Project wrote:...

Facts About Hunger in Cuba

  • Social protection programs implemented within the last 50 years have greatly helped Cuba reduce hunger. The government of Cuba provides monthly food baskets, mother-and-child health care and school feeding programs. These programs are reliant on food imports and are dependent on the national budget.
    Guided by the government’s commitment to leave no Cuban unprotected, the leadership of Cuba reformed its economic model. This process began in 2011 and had the goals to reduce costs, increase the viability of social programs and boost overall efficiency. Food scarcity was recognized as one of the nation’s top priorities.
  • In 2015, about 3.5 million people visited Cuba, causing a surge in the demand for food. Food scarcity was in part due to the U.S. embargo, as well as poor planning by the Cuban government. The foods that many families relied on went instead to restaurants that catered to the increase in tourism. The prices of essential food have risen exuberantly, leaving the average Cuban at a big loss.
  • The typical Cuban family has poor nutrition as there is often very little food diversity, and Cubans traditionally eat very few vegetables. In 2011, the government began its attempts to implement its National Plan for the Prevention and Control of Anemia. Children under the age of five are specifically targeted in this effort; however, by the end of 2015, it was reported that 31.6 percent of children aged two, and as many as 39.6 percent of children six months or younger, suffer from anemia.
  • There are still periods of food shortage in Cuba. Maria Julia, a single mother from Santiago de Cuba, described the food shortages that occurred in December 2014 and January 2015. She and countless other Cuban families had no access to chicken — the main protein in Cuban cuisine. Schools could not provide lunch or snacks for the children during these periods, further challenging struggling parents.
  • The Cuban government covers half of an individual’s nutritional needs at a very low cost. The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization recently honored Cuba for its low levels of malnutrition and hunger. Although unable to provide an average Cuban with all their nutritional needs, the government has managed to provide supplements and extra rationed items for the elderly, children and those suffering from chronic illnesses.
  • Food scarcity has caused families to struggle to create main meals; often by the end of the month, most Cuban families have usually already eaten their ration. This results in difficulty finding sustainable meals, and families tend to rely on social networks to acquire their essential food items.
    In dealing with food scarcity, Cubans had to adapt to different food than their traditional preferences. Many refuse to accept available food as viable, yet, they continue to consume the food out of necessity. The food available through the government does not reach cultural standards, so the Cuban people’s disdain is a sort of symbolic rejection.
  • Nitza Villapol, one of the main Cuban food authorities, has encouraged the change in the traditional Cuban diet through cookbooks aimed at the average Cuban. The cookbooks and state-approved television shows teach Cubans to cook without staple foods. Food scarcity made traditional ingredients like pork, milk, butter and bread extremely difficult to attain.
  • After the crash of the Soviet Union in 1991, Cuba’s sugar economy plummeted for nearly a decade. The government ordered the shutdown of 71 out of 156 sugar refineries in Cuba. Farming land that was once used for sugar is now used to supplement the monthly rations given by the state. Farmers generate cooperatives so that locals can survive off state-sponsored food in conjunction with local farming.

...


Emphasis added.

In the US, prevalence of anemia stands at around 15% for under 5-year old low income children (Pediatric Nutrition Surveillance, CDC, 2009 - it's aimed specifically at low income children), and stood at 3.6% in 1999-2002 (1.2% for iron deficiency anemia, which is caused by malnutrition) for all American children (Unexplained decline in the prevalence of anemia among US children and women between 1988-1994 and 1999-2002, Cusick et. al. (2008)). It seems American children are less likely to experience hunger than Cuban ones, all in all.
#15122157
Julian658 wrote:POD
This is a film about actual Cubans describing the food situation on the island. None of the Cubans on the video are cachectic or emaciated. However, food is rationed


Food is also rationed in western developed countries. It is called “paying for food”. The more money you have, the more food and the more variety you get. If you have no money, you have no food.

and beef is a luxury only available to the elite.


But there is enough pork, chicken, fish, seafood, and beans for everyone.
#15122166
"...There are still periods of food shortage in Cuba. Maria Julia, a single mother from Santiago de Cuba, described the food shortages that occurred in December 2014 and January 2015. She and countless other Cuban families had no access to chicken — the main protein in Cuban cuisine. Schools could not provide lunch or snacks for the children during these periods, further challenging struggling parents..."
#15122176
Julian658 wrote:There is no shortage of Cuban socialism lovers. I will agree that socialism is great for those that live in the gutter in a capitalist country. However, if you are middle class and above socialism is hell. If you are in the gutter you have NOTHING to lose. That is how Chávez got into power.

You still haven't answered my question which I give you credit for ….. you may be a truthful man and do not like the answer.

Yes ….. while I was in Cuba I was endlessly tripping over starving Cubans laying in every gutter :lol:
Here are some more starving near death Cuban children for you to contemplate :)
Image
#15122185
jimjam wrote:You still haven't answered my question which I give you credit for ….. you may be a truthful man and do not like the answer.

Yes ….. while I was in Cuba I was endlessly tripping over starving Cubans laying in every gutter :lol:
Here are some more starving near death Cuban children for you to contemplate :)
Image



I said above that there are no cachectic or emaciated Cubans. In fact, some are somewhat obese due to a high carbohydrate diet with little protein. I also said that Cubans are among the most resourceful people in Latin America and they get a lot done with very little. Just look at how they keep those 1950s American cars running despite no parts or other resources. The Cuban doctors get a lot done with 1950s equipment. It is no accident that Cubans in America do better than other Latin Groups.

The first wave of Cuban immigrants were the professional class and had massive success in America even though they arrived with NOTHING. Later waves of migrants, the ones POD talk about where from the poor uneducated class and as expected have not done as well. Nevertheless, they have a much better life in America.

Car ownership in Cuba is relatively low, with only 60,000 cars between 11 million Cubans.Feb 9, 2017
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 70636.html

I met a Cuban UBER driver in Tampa who had come to America in 2004. He said that owning a car was a dream come true. He raved about the idea of going to a store with everything you can think of and no lines. The idea that he could eat anything he wanted at any time was a luxury for him. This Cuban loved Cuba and even admired Fidel. He had been indoctrinated in socialism since childhood and yet he admitted Fidel had duped the Cubans.

I put up an undoctored video of Cubans speaking Spanish and describing the food rationing. POD refused to look at it and I suspect he does speak Spanish. The Cubans are happy on the video and accept the food shortages in good spirits. BTW, the Cuban gives enough food to at least avoid a famine.
#15122223
Julian658 wrote:I said above that there are no cachectic or emaciated Cubans. In fact, some are somewhat obese due to a high carbohydrate diet with little protein. I also said that Cubans are among the most resourceful people in Latin America and they get a lot done with very little. Just look at how they keep those 1950s American cars running despite no parts or other resources. The Cuban doctors get a lot done with 1950s equipment. It is no accident that Cubans in America do better than other Latin Groups.

The first wave of Cuban immigrants were the professional class and had massive success in America even though they arrived with NOTHING. Later waves of migrants, the ones POD talk about where from the poor uneducated class and as expected have not done as well. Nevertheless, they have a much better life in America.

Car ownership in Cuba is relatively low, with only 60,000 cars between 11 million Cubans.Feb 9, 2017
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-styl ... 70636.html

I met a Cuban UBER driver in Tampa who had come to America in 2004. He said that owning a car was a dream come true. He raved about the idea of going to a store with everything you can think of and no lines. The idea that he could eat anything he wanted at any time was a luxury for him. This Cuban loved Cuba and even admired Fidel. He had been indoctrinated in socialism since childhood and yet he admitted Fidel had duped the Cubans.

I put up an undoctored video of Cubans speaking Spanish and describing the food rationing. POD refused to look at it and I suspect he does speak Spanish. The Cubans are happy on the video and accept the food shortages in good spirits. BTW, the Cuban gives enough food to at least avoid a famine.

This has morphed into a pissing contest. Your impressions seem to derive from Cubans living in America while my impressions derive from Cubans living in Cuba. Let us agree to disagree.

Castro? Interesting and charismatic man. Arrived in Cuba from Mexico with NOTHING and booted out a ruling class of corrupt parasites led by Batista and Luciano and took over the entire country. Massive success? I think so. I believe Castro did his people a great service in ridding his nation of a corrupt layer of predatory capitalists who lived off of the sweat of the masses and treated them like shit. Absolute power, however, corrupts absolutely and neither Castro nor trump are exceptions. Castro was clearly bonkers when he urged Khrushchev to nuke America and, possibly, risk the death of billions. Fortunately Nikita chose wisdom over emotionalism. Castro eventually chilled out ….. mellowed most likely by old age.

Image

Miserable starving Cuban ^ :?:
#15122225
jimjam wrote:This has morphed into a pissing contest. Your impressions seem to derive from Cubans living in America while my impressions derive from Cubans living in Cuba. Let us agree to disagree.

Castro? Interesting and charismatic man. Arrived in Cuba from Mexico with NOTHING and booted out a ruling class of corrupt parasites led by Batista and Luciano and took over the entire country. Massive success? I think so. I believe Castro did his people a great service in ridding his nation of a corrupt layer of predatory capitalists who lived off of the sweat of the masses and treated them like shit. Absolute power, however, corrupts absolutely and neither Castro nor trump are exceptions. Castro was clearly bonkers when he urged Khrushchev to nuke America and, possibly, risk the death of billions. Fortunately Nikita chose wisdom over emotionalism. Castro eventually chilled out ….. mellowed most likely by old age.

Image

Miserable starving Cuban ^ :?:

Cuba is no paradise, but it does well with what it has. You are correct, there was massive corruption in Cuba and the poor did well under Castro. Socialism has something to offer for those at the very bottom. Castro was a remarkable man who unfortunately led a small nation. Otherwise he would have been unstoppable. I also admired Ché Guevara because it seems he was truthful to his ideas and hence wanted to be a guerilla soldier forever.

Unfortunately socialism does very little for those that can thrive in a capitalist economy. Otherwise, I admit that the message of socialism is very attractive to many in every generation.
#15122237
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Hunger_Index

    The Global Hunger Index (GHI) is a tool that measures and tracks hunger globally as well as by region and by country. The GHI is calculated annually, and its results appear in a report issued in October each year.[1][2]

    ...

    The 2019 Global Hunger Index report presents a multi-dimensional measure of national, regional, and global hunger by assigning a numerical score based on several aspects of hunger. It then ranks countries by GHI score and compares current scores with past results. ....

Zero would be a perfect score and 100 means everyone in the country just starved to death. Cuba has a score less than 5.

The list excludes the First World countries (and I mean this in the old Cold War sense) which is a good thing, since it then compares countries with similar levels of economic power. There are only two countries in Latin America that have a better rank than Cuba: Chile and Costa Rica.
#15122319
Unthinking Majority wrote:"I hate technology".

*Rides bike throughout Cuba. Complains about it on internet*

Was this aimed at me? Because it's overly essentialized to the point of losing the sense of certain words.

Improved synopsis: I rode my bike four times all around Hoguin and Havana, and then I came back, lived my normal life for a few weeks, and then I complained about how our 'superior' (more advanced) technology actually makes us less healthy and more miserable.

Is that the complete sentence you were trying to write but couldn't bring yourself to?

Julian658 wrote:Socialism has something to offer for those at the very bottom.

By "bottom," you must mean the "bottom 60%" who had never been to school or a doctor before the revolution. Weird to call the majority "very bottom" unless you're thinking of yourself as some kind of God (or archangel at least.)
#15122330
QatzelOk wrote:Was this aimed at me? Because it's overly essentialized to the point of losing the sense of certain words.

Improved synopsis: I rode my bike four times all around Hoguin and Havana, and then I came back, lived my normal life for a few weeks, and then I complained about how our 'superior' (more advanced) technology actually makes us less healthy and more miserable.

Is that the complete sentence you were trying to write but couldn't bring yourself to?


You're commenting that there's less of a type of technology (cars) in Cuba on the roads, which makes it easier to use the type of technology you want to use on the roads (bikes). Cuba lacks cars not because of a socialist economy but because of trade embargos, which is why they drive pre-1960's vehicles.

Yes some technology makes us less healthy physically and mentally.
#15122346
Pants-of-dog wrote:This seems like the next step for Canada; i.e. a public pharmacare program. The NDP are already proposing it, so the Liberals will probably also do so in about a decade.


Good to hear. Pharmaceuticals really need an overhaul. Hopefully the feds will get on with a little faster, but I don't hold a great hope.
#15122352
Stormsmith wrote:Good to hear. Pharmaceuticals really need an overhaul. Hopefully the feds will get on with a little faster, but I don't hold a great hope.


The Liberals are just as likely to accept "campaign contributions" from drug companies as the Conservatives, so I agree that we should not hold our proverbial breath.

I would not be surprised to find that Cuba has a better pharmaceutical system than Canada.
#15122399
Sivad wrote:Well you believe all kinds of stupid shit and doubt shit that's beyond all doubt so your opinion on just about everything is totally fucking worthless.


Seriously, get a passport. Go to Cuba. Maybe you can do reports from the ground about what a gulag raaaarrrr it is so you can at least stop talking about it from your current position of ignorance. And maybe then, like most who actually visit the island, you might want to go back for more. :excited:
#15122414
skinster wrote: your current position of ignorance.


I probably know more Cubans personally than all the Cubans you have ever even casually met. My next door neighbor growing up was Cuban, her mom was from Cuba. I used to stay at her mom's place whenever I went to Queens. I used to run with a Cuban kid from Jamaica Ave. I know boatloads of Cubans from Cuba, I know their children, I know their whole families. And all of them love to tell anyone that will listen how fucked up Cuba is and what a piece of shit Castro is. I've literally sat and watched them pack for their trips back to Cuba, they would smuggle toiletries to their family by like sewing toothbrushes into hats and shit.

The question is how anyone who has actually been to Cuba could possibly remain so totally oblivious to all that poverty and oppression? The answer of course is severe ideological dementia and with a case as bad as yours it doesn't matter where you go or how much of the world you see because all you can ever see are the projections of your own fevered ideology.
#15122416
QatzelOk wrote:
By "bottom," you must mean the "bottom 60%" who had never been to school or a doctor before the revolution. Weird to call the majority "very bottom" unless you're thinking of yourself as some kind of God (or archangel at least.)

Any nation that has 60% of the people living in abysmal poverty should be socialist. IN this instance the poor have NOTHING to lose. However, the other 40% would not benefit. Once all the brain talent is gone the nation will likely remain poor but with greater equality and equality is everything for the left. I am in agreement!
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