[MistyTiger]

I won't bother if you criticize Trump's personality, he's obviously far from perfect. Either is Hilary Clinton (both are jerks to be honest), the difference (or the attractiveness of Trump) is he's honest, he dare say whatever he wants to say.

Like a female voters said, I voted for Trump not because I like him personally, he may have history of sexual harassment (who knows), but I don't care. I care about his policy, I choose him to be my president not my husband.

Personality in politics matters. How much pressure can a leader take? Can they make rational decisions, while putting aside their distaste for others? Trump cannot. If he could, he and Kim Jong Un would not be near the brink of war.

This female wants a leader who won't abuse others for their sick self satisfaction. I want a leader who is sane and does the honorable thing towards women.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

[Sasa]

:lol: You mean like Canada or the UK? This is simply American arrogance at work, on your part.

Technology alone does not a great country make. Many of these countries you mention do contribute greatly to world technology, as well. Canada has some of the best medical technology in the world and leads in cancer research. Technological domination does not mean much in this age where you can trade for said technology.

YOU posted it. I merely repeated to you what the source you posted, said.

No universal medical and you end up paying more than those who do. No one lives on unemployed benefits forever, either. You're making shit up.

If anything, you've proven how ineffective, and inefficient, the American system is. The countries that are among the best to live in, have good immigration policies, good welfare systems, and universal healthcare. They also do it for cheaper.

I really don't know what you want to express, simply repeating what I said.
American generally work longer hours (compared to those in Canada/UK) and earn more and most dominant firms in industries are in the US, that's how people define hard-working as well as its consequence, you may say it's a kind of arrogance whatever you think about that's what it is.

And no one live on welfare forever, how are you so confident? It's been widely reported in Australia/UK etc. The reason is simple the policy allows certain people to do so, some of them even apply for benefit with fraud, you thought I never watched UK TV programs?

I know US is not considered the "best country to live". It depends on who you are. No doubt if I were unemployed I'd definitely choose to live in UK/Australia. How about working people, you just need to compare the wage and living cost.
America is the heaven, for hard-working and talented people.

BTW I want to clarify one point, so many argues that the lack of free medical in the US. You just ask any one working in Microsoft/NVIDIA etc, they enjoy 100% free medical including their family members fully paid by the employers. In the US only losers complain about medicare.

Another story, an Australian guy found his salary doubled after moving to the US while the prices for most goods & housing are just half.

[Godstud]

American generally work longer hours (compared to those in Canada/UK) and earn more and most dominant firms in industries are in the US, that's how people define hard-working as well as its consequence, you may say it's a kind of arrogance whatever you think about that's what it is.

Please provide a source for this silly claim. I very much doubt that you can.

And no one live on welfare forever, how are you so confident?

I am confident because I don't simply believe anecdotal evidence, and internet memes, that say so. They certainly don't pay forever in the welfare state of Canada, where 45 weeks is the maximum, and only if you're proving you are looking for work, and put in 52 weeks prior to your unemployment.

It's been widely reported in Australia/UK etc.

Anecdotal evidence, only.

Read real information:

According to the Internal Revenue Code, these types of benefits are to be included in a taxpayer's gross income. The standard time-length of unemployment compensation is six months, although extensions are possible during economic downturns.

Contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance is paid for up to 182 days, if a person is unemployed, capable of and available for work, and is actively seeking work.
http://www.easyexpat.com/en/guides/unit ... nefits.htm

http://www.ncoa.gov.au/report/appendix- ... -wage.html

You just ask any one working in Microsoft/NVIDIA etc, they enjoy 100% free medical including their family members fully paid by the employers.

Lucky them. That's not the case in all companies, is it? Pointing out the exception is not an argument.

In the US only losers argue about medicare.

You obviously are lucky enough to have good benefits, or you'd be complaining. You don't stop a debate by calling the other person dumb if they disagree with you, as I am sure many would.

[Rancid]

Why is working longer hours something to be proud of?

[Sasa]

Please provide a source for this silly claim. I very much doubt that you can.

I am confident because I don't simply believe anecdotal evidence, and internet memes, that say so. They certainly don't pay forever in the welfare state of Canada, where 45 weeks is the maximum, and only if you're proving you are looking for work, and put in 52 weeks prior to your unemployment.

Anecdotal evidence, only.

Read real information:

According to the Internal Revenue Code, these types of benefits are to be included in a taxpayer's gross income. The standard time-length of unemployment compensation is six months, although extensions are possible during economic downturns.

Contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance is paid for up to 182 days, if a person is unemployed, capable of and available for work, and is actively seeking work.
http://www.easyexpat.com/en/guides/unit ... nefits.htm

http://www.ncoa.gov.au/report/appendix- ... -wage.html

Lucky them. That's not the case in all companies, is it? Pointing out the exception is not an argument.

You obviously are lucky enough to have good benefits, or you'd be complaining. You don't stop a debate by calling the other person dumb if they disagree with you, as I am sure many would.

You obviously underrated me. Unlike your liberal peers I never claim anything without evidence:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... 1eb1373b9a
I don't know how old you are, it surprised me you don't know American work longest in the west.
I didn't say they can live on benefits forever in Canada, but definitely workable in UK/Australia, since I know people living there.
Presumably Canada is fairer than other commonwealth states thanks to the proximity to the US.
You may consider people who are able to work for Microsoft/NVIDIA are exceptional and indeed they are. Therefore I said US is the heaven for talented people. You may not feel US the best place if you are not outstanding enough.

I don't think I need to convince any one, all I mentioned is the fact as what it is. You have the right to say you like it or not. For instance you like free medical, but no need to day "free medicare is right". I never say "paid-mediare is right", but just this system make people hard-working, which is true.

[Sasa]

Why is working longer hours something to be proud of? :?:

It's not something worth proud of.
But as a guy working in tech field for decades I can tell you your firm won't be competitive if your employees leave office on time everyday, under the competition today. It's not I encourage people to stay in office deliberately but no other choice. If you don't do long hour work your rivals do, unless you consider yourself a super man, which I never met yet - don't get me wrong, I knew many outstanding and smart guys, but all of them are diligent, wishing to spend more time in research. Maybe I'm too ordinary to know a real super man, if you like to say. But I dare say European/Australian firms would never beat US not just due to working hours.

[Godstud]

Oopsie! You're wrong on some of that!

Who works the longest hours?
A look at the average annual hours worked per person in selected countries puts South Korea top with a whopping 2,193 hours, followed by Chile on 2,068.

British workers clock up 1,647 hours and Germans 1,408 - putting them at the bottom of the table, above only the Netherlands.

But working longer doesn't necessarily mean working better.

"Generally speaking, long working hours are associated with lower productivity per hour. Workers are working very long hours to achieve a minimum level of output or to achieve some minimum level of wages because frankly they're not very productive," Messenger says.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18144319

As for productive...
The United States ranks fifth, according to the OECD, contributing $68.30 to the country’s GDP per hour worked, countering claims that Americans are the most productive workers in the world. America put in more hours—33.6 per week on average—than allfour of the European countries with higher productivity rankings.

Messenger says the average Briton works 150 fewer hours than an American.

"The difference is really driven by the fact that the US is the only developed country that has no legal or contractual or collective requirement to provide any minimum amount of annual leave," he says.
http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

I'm 50, incidentally. I've been around the block.

You may not feel US the best place if you are not outstanding enough.

That's why NAFTA is there to protect Americans from losing their high education jobs to Canadians.

As mentioned already, longer hours doesn't mean more productivity.

Your idea that people who don't make a lot of money aren't hard-working is childish and ill-conceived.

[Rancid]

IMO, depends on the industry. Working more doens't always pay off. Breaking away from work can pay off more than chaining yourself to a desk. Disconnecting and getting away from the desk can improve productivity. Just taking a walk will increase blood flow to your brain, and thus help you think better/clearly. Breaking away from something for an evening and hitting it hard after a good nights rest does wonders to productivity.

I've only worked at one company that forced me to work weekends regularly. The extra work was the most meaningless shit we've all ever had to work on. It had no impact on the companies overall performance. In fact, it ended in complete failure and we pulled out of the market.

Now I work for a European firm (in the US). We own 99% of one of the markets we compete in. A US firm tried to break into this market and eat up our share. They forced their employees to work many weeks, and got no where. I used to work for that firm, they are the ones that forced me to work many weekends. I guess I'm a turn coat. It's business though, the highest bidders gets my skills!

[Sasa]

Oopsie! You're wrong on some of that!

Who works the longest hours?
A look at the average annual hours worked per person in selected countries puts South Korea top with a whopping 2,193 hours, followed by Chile on 2,068.

British workers clock up 1,647 hours and Germans 1,408 - putting them at the bottom of the table, above only the Netherlands.

But working longer doesn't necessarily mean working better.

"Generally speaking, long working hours are associated with lower productivity per hour. Workers are working very long hours to achieve a minimum level of output or to achieve some minimum level of wages because frankly they're not very productive," Messenger says.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18144319

As for productive...
The United States ranks fifth, according to the OECD, contributing $68.30 to the country’s GDP per hour worked, countering claims that Americans are the most productive workers in the world. America put in more hours—33.6 per week on average—than allfour of the European countries with higher productivity rankings.

Messenger says the average Briton works 150 fewer hours than an American.

"The difference is really driven by the fact that the US is the only developed country that has no legal or contractual or collective requirement to provide any minimum amount of annual leave," he says.
http://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

I'm 50, incidentally. I've been around the block.

That's why NAFTA is there to protect Americans from losing their high education jobs to Canadians.

As mentioned already, longer hours doesn't mean more productivity.

Your idea that people who don't make a lot of money aren't hard-working is childish and ill-conceived.

As a veteran engineer (though younger than you) I obviously know the how productivity correlates to working hours. But don't forget what business runners pursue are not highest productivity but best outcome (or largest amount of outcome in a sense). That's why I said overtime work in STEM field is inevitable (at least in the US). I know a guy working in NVIDIA (the leader in GPU computing field) who often spend weekends in office which he says quit common there.

It's still up to your personal preference, just like the debate on welfare. If you prioritize family life, it may not be a good idea working in a super star tech firm in the US. But on the other hand if you like to devote most of your life in career, it's the best place. No need to say right or wrong.

All I know so far is talented Canadian engineers surge in the US for higher pay job & better career prospect. But I agree if family life appear most important to you, may be better to live in Canada, even though earning less money.

[Godstud]

As I said, there's a trade off for making less money, but in this age of computers, I have several Canadian friends contracting to US companies and staying right at home in Canada, because the quality of life is better for the same pay.

Working longer hours doesn't guarantee productivity, either.

In fact:
Forget the 9 to 5 — research suggests there's a case for the 3-hour workday
Over the course of an eight-hour workday, the average employee works for about three hours — two hours and 53 minutes, to be more precise.

The rest of the time, according to a 2016 survey of 1,989 UK office workers, people spend on a combination of reading the news, browsing social media, eating food, socializing about non-work topics, taking smoke breaks, and searching for new jobs (presumably, to pick up the same habits in a different office).
http://www.businessinsider.com/8-hour-w ... sts-2017-9

[Sasa]

IMO, depends on the industry. Working more doens't always pay off. Breaking away from work can pay off more than chaining yourself to a desk. Disconnecting and getting away from the desk can improve productivity. Just taking a walk will increase blood flow to your brain, and thus help you think better/clearly. Breaking away from something for an evening and hitting it hard after a good nights rest does wonders to productivity.

I've only worked at one company that forced me to work weekends regularly. The extra work was the most meaningless shit we've all ever had to work on. It had no impact on the companies overall performance. In fact, it ended in complete failure and we pulled out of the market.

Now I work for a European firm (in the US). We own 99% of one of the markets we compete in. A US firm tried to break into this market and eat up our share. They forced their employees to work many weeks, and got no where. I used to work for that firm, they are the ones that forced me to work many weekends. I guess I'm a turn coat. It's business though, the highest bidders gets my skills!

Yes, it's largely industry dependent topic. Since I can just say about electronics/tech field which I work in. Generally say, I don't think any firm would force you to work overtime, it's totally "voluntary". You should have heard the term geek. To stay in tech field you must be a geek, passionate on what you are working on, you just don't want to stop to go back home if one problem is not yet solved, and obviously that's the characteristic your employer likes. If you wish a guarantee on leaving office on time everyday, you'd better quit. That's partly explains why women are unsuited in this industry.

And I did hear that in the Europe, engineers don't want to spend one more minute in office, which heavily impressed me.

[Sasa]

As I said, there's a trade off for making less money, but in this age of computers, I have several Canadian friends contracting to US companies and staying right at home in Canada, because the quality of life is better for the same pay.

Working longer hours doesn't guarantee productivity, either.

In fact:
Forget the 9 to 5 — research suggests there's a case for the 3-hour workday
Over the course of an eight-hour workday, the average employee works for about three hours — two hours and 53 minutes, to be more precise.

The rest of the time, according to a 2016 survey of 1,989 UK office workers, people spend on a combination of reading the news, browsing social media, eating food, socializing about non-work topics, taking smoke breaks, and searching for new jobs (presumably, to pick up the same habits in a different office).
http://www.businessinsider.com/8-hour-w ... sts-2017-9

You are talking about two different things: one is less working hours, another is working from home.
If you do application software programming (which is unrelated to hardware level) in theory you don't need to come to office, and I know a number of such guys.
That however doesn't mean less working hours: they actually work even longer, at home.
Nonetheless I know what you mean, feel better working at home.

[Rancid]

I like this article:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/i-have-side-code-projects-show-you-ezekiel-buchheit/

By the way, I work in tech as well. I live in the grey world between HW and SW.

[Godstud]

And I did hear that in the Europe, engineers don't want to spend one more minute in office, which heavily impressed me.

What's not to understand? They put in their work, and then are done.

It might also have to do with their higher productivity rates...

I worked at a job where I'd put in any amount of overtime during the week, but I would not work weekends. 12 hours a day? No problem. Company man all week... until Friday at 4 pm. Then I was gone and would not work the weekends.

I learned this from my boss, and he ran a top notch crew that did a great deal of work during the week. He led by example and productivity was high because we worked for our weekends.

Now? I'm technically retired, although realistically I have people working for me. I'm putting in my work hours right now.

one is less working hours, another is working from home.

They do BOTH. Less distractions and good work environment.

[Sasa]

I like this article:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/i-have-side-code-projects-show-you-ezekiel-buchheit/

By the way, I work in tech as well. I live in the grey world between HW and SW.

Are you working on embedded systems?
There's hardly "pure HW" jobs these days, even IC designers do programming.

[Sasa]

What's not to understand? They put in their work, and then are done.

It might also have to do with their higher productivity rates...

I worked at a job where I'd put in any amount of overtime during the week, but I would not work weekends. 12 hours a day? No problem. Company man all week... until Friday at 4 pm. Then I was gone and would not work the weekends.

I learned this from my boss, and he ran a top notch crew that did a great deal of work during the week. He led by example and productivity was high because we worked for our weekends.

Now? I'm technically retired, although realistically I have people working for me. I'm putting in my work hours right now.

They do BOTH. Less distractions and good work environment.

Hey 12 hours a day is still over time, the only difference is you choose to work until 4pm but some others prefer coming to office in the weekends, and I personally prefer the latter way too.

I really wonder how the "European way" - never work one more minute, work.

[Godstud]

I think it might work because they know they have to be productive, If they don't they have to work longer. That seems like a reasonable trade-off.

[Rancid]

Are you working on embedded systems?
There's hardly "pure HW" jobs these days, even IC designers do programming.

These days I work mostly in the Networking and Virtualization (VMs, containers, lambda/serverless). Both of which require a good understanding of the Networking, Memory management, Process management, and IO SW stacks in OSes. It also requires good understanding of CPU microarch, caching and cache policies, interconnect/fabrics, memory, and network cards (especially smart NICs that can do TCP/VXLAN/etc offload) HW.

I'm not claiming to be an expert in the above. However, I do know a lot of shit about the above.

It's fair to say, I have a very non-typical career path at this point. Kind of all over the place.

[Sasa]

These days I work mostly in the Networking and Virtualization (VMs, containers, lambda/serverless). Both of which require a good understanding of the Networking, Memory management, Process management, and IO SW stacks in OSes. It also requires good understanding of CPU microarch, caching and cache policies, interconnect/fabrics, memory, and network cards (especially smart NICs that can do TCP/VXLAN/etc offload) HW.

I'm not claiming to be an expert in the above. However, I do know a lot of shit about the above.

It's fair to say, I have a very non-typical career path at this point. Kind of all over the place.

It's very close to embedded system which I work on.
Frankly say the prospect of HW/system software is not so good nowadays.
A very intriguing and growing field in IT is, machine learning. Unfortunately I'm too old to study a PhD.

[Crantag]

You obviously underrated me. Unlike your liberal peers I never claim anything without evidence:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... 1eb1373b9a
I don't know how old you are, it surprised me you don't know American work longest in the west.
I didn't say they can live on benefits forever in Canada, but definitely workable in UK/Australia, since I know people living there.
Presumably Canada is fairer than other commonwealth states thanks to the proximity to the US.
You may consider people who are able to work for Microsoft/NVIDIA are exceptional and indeed they are. Therefore I said US is the heaven for talented people. You may not feel US the best place if you are not outstanding enough.

I don't think I need to convince any one, all I mentioned is the fact as what it is. You have the right to say you like it or not. For instance you like free medical, but no need to day "free medicare is right". I never say "paid-mediare is right", but just this system make people hard-working, which is true.

In case anybody missed it, the source he posted is about where MILLENIALS work the most hours.

I guess it isn't surprising that American millenials would be working on average 45 hours a week, in light of the poor state of things these days. Actually, I'm also living it, so that's partly how I know.

Way to be dishonest. However, I don't believe young people working more than full time, on average, across these countries here is an indicator of good economic health. So much for your initial point.