[Pants-of-dog]

You probably ignore the fact that, terrorist-prone/Muslims people are unlikely to succeed as scientist/PhDs in STEM. You may say it's discriminatory, no matter what you/others complain, it's true. Tell me how many scientists/PhD you know end up as terrorists?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opini ... -myth.html

We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available -- the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 -- 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans.

The 1993 World Trade Center attack involved 12 men, all of whom had a college education. The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina. We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college.

From what I understand, higher education is common among terrorists, especially those terrorists who are more successful/dangerous.

I said the 83% are all unskilled migrant programs including the diversity program.

Your English is poor enough that it is difficult to determine what you are saying.

Still, reducing the number of unskilled migrants will not magically lead to more skilled migrants.

"the goals of the diversity program" is unrealistic and essentially political-correctness led. The premise at the time was, there's no enough people coming to the US while we have too much places to house people, no matter they are useful or not. It might have been fine when it was introduced in 1990s, where Muslim terrorists hadn't posed a notable threat, but no long so. If you go back to 100 year earlier, you'd say look people were allowed to move to the US without visa, isn't it a good idea?

Not just the US, most western countries have restricted immigration these days, typically Australia. It's a global tendency.

Actually, the goal of the diversity program is to diversify immigrant populations in the US.

[Sasa]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/the-madrassa-myth.html

We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available -- the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 -- 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans.

The 1993 World Trade Center attack involved 12 men, all of whom had a college education. The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina. We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college.

From what I understand, higher education is common among terrorists, especially those terrorists who are more successful/dangerous.




Your English is poor enough that it is difficult to determine what you are saying.

Still, reducing the number of unskilled migrants will not magically lead to more skilled migrants.



Actually, the goal of the diversity program is to diversify immigrant populations in the US.

Having college background doesn't mean to meet US skilled immigration requirements, which you obviously underrate. I wonder which terrorist graduated from a credited US university with PhD degree, can you tell me one?

I told you over and over again, once unskilled migrant programs are stopped, more places can be used for highly skilled ones, no idea why it's so hard for you to understand:
Currently 17% highly skilled migrants, if we cut all the rest (83%) while double the skilled scheme, it's still 34% of the current immigration level (less net immigrants), but faster for talented people to gain greencards.

The promote of diversity itself is misleading. The "multiculturalism" an alternative term of self-segregation, a more divided society. Over time people need to converge rather than diverge boasting their "ancestral traditions". Some authorities have been rethinking the impact of multiculturalism rather than recklessly promoting it.

[Godstud]

So when is the Statue of Liberty being shipped to Canada? (You might as well, since everything you are saying is pretty much against what's written at the base of this statue)

All this talk of stopping immigrants and refugees on the grounds of "potential terrorism" is rubbish. The US suffers more from home-grown shit from white male Americans than from refugees and immigrants.

Greatest countries in the world...

Bad news... USA falls in at #11.
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-cou ... per-year-2

[Sasa]

So when is the Statue of Liberty being shipped to Canada? (You might as well, since everything you are saying is pretty much against what's written at the base of this statue)

All this talk of stopping immigrants and refugees on the grounds of "potential terrorism" is rubbish. The US suffers more from home-grown shit from white male Americans than from refugees and immigrants.

Greatest countries in the world...

Bad news... USA falls in at #11.
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-cou ... per-year-2

Come on, Muslim terrorism was never a issue when Statue of Liberty was built. Why don't you say people were allowed to settle in America without visa at the time?

If self-identified as a liberal you must face the reality nowadays, never afraid of "change", rather than saying something like to follow the conventions.
Try to ask yourself, did Washington says women should have right to vote, did the fathers of America support gay-marriage?

Many rules are out of date, that's why politics need to be debated.

[Godstud]

Try to ask yourself, did Washington says women should have right to vote, did the fathers of America support gay-marriage?

I am sure they didn't foresee the problems with the Second Amendment or the abolition of slavery, either. What's your point?

I know times change, and change takes work.

Many rules are out of date, that's why politics need to be debated.

Absolutely. We also have to be realistic about things that we are changing due to logic and reason as opposed to things we change out of fear, and feelings.

Banning people from Muslim countries is not based on logic or reason, since there is no actual reasonable threat. This is why the US Supreme court killed Trump's Muslim Ban(He even called it such).

There is a great deal of fear-mongering going on in American MSM. They want you to fear Muslims, Transgender people, and a great many other things, and the justification for most of these things is lacking.

Fear is a feeling. It's a very strong feeling, and it makes smart people do dumb things.

[Sasa]

I am sure they didn't foresee the problems with the Second Amendment or the abolition of slavery, either. What's your point?

I know times change, and change takes work.
Absolutely. We also have to be realistic about things that we are changing due to logic and reason as opposed to things we change out of fear, and feelings.

Banning people from Muslim countries is not based on logic or reason, since there is no actual reasonable threat. This is why the US Supreme court killed Trump's Muslim Ban(He even called it such).

There is a great deal of fear-mongering going on in American MSM. They want you to fear Muslims, Transgender people, and a great many other things, and the justification for most of these things is lacking.

Fear is a feeling. It's a very strong feeling, and it makes smart people do dumb things.

Very well, therefore, no one has the right to use a slogan to assert, who is un-American, since there's no universally accepted American standard per se.

I don't think I "fear" Muslim or I wouldn't talk here. I do know many really fear, treating Muslim/Islam a taboo topic. I'm just cautious about how the world is changing. You think Muslim is harmless, unfortunately they are not as open-minded as you. Statistics shows that within the next 30 years, major European countries including Germany and UK would be Muslim majority, so you are happy with that? Should future president swear with a Quran? I talked with a number of leftists like you and none of them has any realistic idea about that future.

[Godstud]

Very well, therefore, no one has the right to use a slogan to assert, who is un-American, since there's no universally accepted American standard per se.

Generally, if it's running contrary to the US Constitution, it's seen as un-American. Am I wrong?

I don't think religious extremism is harmless, but I am just as wary of the Christian stuff, as I am of the Muslim stuff. They are both harmful, but in different ways.

Statistics shows that within the next 30 years, major European countries including Germany and UK would be Muslim majority, so you are happy with that?

Who cares what religion they are? You're showing your bias here. If they are good citizens, then their religion is irrelevant.

Should future president swear with a Quran?

One might. One might even choose to swear in and not use a religious text.

You've seen this, right?

I'm sorry, but I don't hold this fear-ridden view of the future that you seem to hold. it's not any less realistic than yours, either.

[Suntzu]

I don't see what the problem with Muslims is. They seem to get on well with their neighbors in the rest of the world.

[Godstud]

Yes, Suntzu, they do when you aren't bombing them, fucking with their country, or destabilizing their government.

[Sasa]

Generally, if it's running contrary to the US Constitution, it's seen as un-American. Am I wrong?

I don't think religious extremism is harmless, but I am just as wary of the Christian stuff, as I am of the Muslim stuff. They are both harmful, but in different ways.

Who cares what religion they are? You're showing your bias here. If they are good citizens, then their religion is irrelevant.

One might. One might even choose to swear in and not use a religious text.

You've seen this, right?

I'm sorry, but I don't hold this fear-ridden view of the future that you seem to hold. it's not any less realistic than yours, either.

Well, when it comes "unconstitutional", someone argues Trump's words were unconstitutional while he's still the president, and if banning immigrants from certain countries are thought unconstitutional, it's Roosevelt's turn then. Frankly I really have no idea. To me only one rule applies: anything good to the country is right whatsoever.
I'm not christian as a result I'm not a big fan of that, however since I know christian people, they are at least more open-minded than Muslims. I've no problem living in a Christian neighborhood, but never the Muslims.

You're showing your bias here. Let's be honest, every one is biased (scientifically). The only difference is I'm honest, I admit I'm selfish and biased as an ordinary person, while Hilary Clinton'd never do so.

I'm apparently biased, so I live in a Christian majority country. I'd move to the middle east if I hate Christians.
"If they are good citizens, then their religion is irrelevant." That's probably what you assume, I'm afraid your Muslim brothers don't agree....

So still you are reluctant to imagine the future in a Muslim majority country. You can experience it for now by traveling to say Iraq/Yemen, and embrace that "future".

[ness31]

Another immigration thread, yay.

For everyone who’s so pro-immigration, I gotta ask, is your home a revolving door to all and sundry? Think back to the last time when you had visitors over and you went out of your way to be hospitable, it’s a lovey gesture but it is both mentally and financially burdensome. You can’t do it constantly without suffering burnout

Give it rest guys. There is no logic to immigration for immigrations sake

[Sasa]

Yes, Suntzu, they do when you aren't bombing them, fucking with their country, or destabilizing their government.

Suntzu would always be fine until one day one of his relatives got bombed.
I always wonder what frequency of terror attack in Europe could wake them up?
ISIS leader: They don't mind being killed every month but still open the door for refugees, time to enhance our attacks?

[Sasa]

Another immigration thread, yay.

For everyone who’s so pro-immigration, I gotta ask, is your home a revolving door to all and sundry? Think back to the last time when you had visitors over and you went out of your way to be hospitable, it’s a lovey gesture but it is both mentally and financially burdensome. You can’t do it constantly without suffering burnout

Give it rest guys. There is no logic to immigration for immigrations sake

The best way is to separate people voluntarily: like what I suggested previously: the pro-refugee people pay the bill to host refugees who are confined in that area (living with pro-refugees) without disturbing other citizens.

Another way is to let pro-refugees move to their homeland, Europe the headquarters of leftists we don't mind how many millions of Muslims they receive every year then, nothing to do with us. We live in a country led by Trump.
That's the ultimate democracy, to let every one happy.

[Godstud]

There is no logic to immigration for immigrations sake

There is, but if you will not accept the arguments, then it's pointless talking to you about it.

The best way is to separate people voluntarily: like what I suggested previously: the pro-refugee people pay the bill to host refugees who are confined in that area (living with pro-refugees) without disturbing other citizens.

How many people would vote for tax breaks for the rich? How many people would vote for cheaper fuel for rich people's jets? You want to start only paying for what you, personally want? Dumb, and libertarian to the extreme.

Another way is to let pro-refugees move to their homeland

This is as dumb as the ,"If you don't like our country, leave!" argument put forward by people with no arguments.

Europe the headquarters of leftists we don't mind how many millions of Muslims they receive every year then, nothing to do with us.

Yes. Heaven forbid you have people who have an ounce of human compassion for the suffering of others. I wonder what happened to the Christians in this forum? They seem rather silent when it comes to helping others if they have to lift a single finger to do so.

We live in a country led by Trump.

Which is why it's currently a shitshow.

[Sasa]

There is, but if you will not accept the arguments, then it's pointless talking to you about it.

How many people would vote for tax breaks for the rich? How many people would vote for cheaper fuel for rich people's jets? You want to start only paying for what you, personally want? Dumb, and libertarian to the extreme.

This is as dumb as the ,"If you don't like our country, leave!" argument put forward by people with no arguments.

Yes. Heaven forbid you have people who have an ounce of human compassion for the suffering of others. I wonder what happened to the Christians in this forum? They seem rather silent when it comes to helping others if they have to lift a single finger to do so.

Which is why it's currently a shitshow.

Well the tax cut is not for "rich" only(though no idea how rich is a real "rich" in your words) but many salaried people benefit from that. If you have job with a decent pay can't understand why you bother, if not envying others.

And low tax is one of the fundamental concepts of conservatism, I remember you claimed to be a conservative....

Having said that Christians are generally pro-GOP thus pro-conservatives (though I'm no a Christian). It's weird a liberal stressing Christian values here.

I didn't mean left-wing Americans must leave, which may sound offensive. just cos world-widely, Europe appears pro-Liberal while US is thought the most right-wing country, thus more suitable for left-American and right-European to make a move.

It's indeed bad for people with different faiths live together. But I really doubt if you are OK living in a Muslim-majority country.

[ness31]

There is, but if you will not accept the arguments, then it's pointless talking to you about it.

Of course there is. There always is.

You will present me with someone’s expert opionion more than likely backed by an institution that has cred. This link, article, peer reviewed journal study, meme or video clip is the evidence. Then when I disagree with the evidence I am labelled anti intellectual, a denier a pusher of elicit pseudo science etc

It’s also about this time I pause and remind myself that this isn’t always how things actually work in the real world away from the screen and the propaganda.

To completely ignore what should be intuitively obvious is...is.. well I don’t even know if there’s an adjective for something that technically doesn’t exist as common sense is a concept of the past.

[Godstud]

And low tax is one of the fundamental concepts of conservatism, I remember you claimed to be a conservative....

Conservativism is also about the government spending your tax dollars wisely, on good programs that help the citizens. It's not simply about low taxes with no benefits. It's about government transparency, and smaller government(not a bloated bureaucracy).

Eg. Canadians pay taxes. We pay taxes higher than most Americans, but in the end actually pay less for our medical, and government benefits.

It's weird a liberal stressing Christian values here.

Christian values are often liberal, are they not?

It's indeed bad for people with different faiths live together.

Bullshit. That's your own personal opinion, and it's not supported by fact. I have lived, and worked, alongside people of many different faiths, and when we all respect each other, then the religion means little.

But I really doubt if you are OK living in a Muslim-majority country.

I currently live in a Buddhist majority country, but I am free to worship(or not) as I wish. The same can be said for some Muslim countries(Maybe not the ones being bombed by "Christian" nations).

To completely ignore what should be intuitively obvious is...is.. well I don’t even know if there’s an adjective for something that technically doesn’t exist as common sense is a concept of the past.

If you want others to follow your rules, then you have to follow your own. Common sense and what is "intuitively obvious" is entirely subjective. I find what you suggest to be quite contrary to what I'd consider common sense. It's common sense not to generalize about people of a culture/religion, etc.

[Sasa]

Conservativism is also about the government spending your tax dollars wisely, on good programs that help the citizens. It's not simply about low taxes with no benefits. It's about government transparency, and smaller government(not a bloated bureaucracy).

Eg. Canadians pay taxes. We pay taxes higher than most Americans, but in the end actually pay less for our medical, and government benefits.

Christian values are often liberal, are they not?

Bullshit. That's your own personal opinion, and it's not supported by fact. I have lived, and worked, alongside people of many different faiths, and when we all respect each other, then the religion means little.

I currently live in a Buddhist majority country, but I am free to worship(or not) as I wish. The same can be said for some Muslim countries(Maybe not the ones being bombed by "Christian" nations).

If you want others to follow your rules, then you have to follow your own. Common sense and what is "intuitively obvious" is entirely subjective. I find what you suggest to be quite contrary to what I'd consider common sense. It's common sense not to generalize about people of a culture/religion, etc.

Regardless of what you want to say, face it, low tax/less welfare in other words limited intervenes from government is what conservatives pursue. As you said Canadian pay more tax and have higher consumer prices (which you didn't mention), but free medical? You'd only celebrate it if you are unemployed or you've paid it already my friend. I personally don't like such high tax + low income + high prices + "free medicare".
"Christian values are often liberal" I really don't know how liberal Christians are, I just find Christians generally support GOP.

I actually have no problem with liberal people, but for now the problem is liberal dominates the society and suppress conservatives (see what happens in Silicon Valley, the freedom of speech has been deprived). Not surprising you are happy but conservatives are forced to keep silent until they vote.

I don't think Buddhism is comparable to Muslim. If you want me to make it clearer, Islam is a cult. As an atheist I appreciate a lot from Buddhism especially Zen, which I don't even think a religion.

And I'm far from alone, if you are open-minded enough, why don't rethink and ask: why Muslim alone are hated the most across the world. Tell you why your "religious taboo" prevent you from such rethinking.

[Godstud]

Regardless of what you want to say, face it, low tax/less welfare in other words limited intervenes from government is what conservatives pursue. As you said Canadian pay more tax and have higher consumer prices (which you didn't mention), but free medical? You'd only celebrate it if you are unemployed or you've paid it already my friend. I personally don't like such high tax + low income + high prices + "free medicare".

After you factor in Americans paying their own health insurance, Canadians come ahead in how much cash they have.

We do well enough...
Why Canada Is Able to Do Things Better
Most of the country understands that when it comes to government, you pay for what you get.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... es/533847/

If you want me to make it clearer, Islam is a cult.

Just like Christianity. Would you like to post this in the Conspiracy Theory subforum?

why Muslim alone are hated the most across the world.

They aren't, so your argument isn't worth crap. I can talk to the Thais around me and ask them and they hardly know much about it, aside from the fact that there's a mosque on the edge of town, by the Christian church. You are generalizing without much knowledge about the world, at large. It's not just about the fear-mongering and hateful USA.

Tell you why your "religious taboo" prevent you from such rethinking.

I'm an atheist, so you'll have to rethink your own statement. I find all religions to be almost equally atrocious when taken to their extreme. The same applies to ideologies. "Everything in moderation" being my mantra in regards to these things.

- See Christian Uganda a few years back sentencing homosexuals to prison for life.
- See Christian dominated African countries practicing FGM(Muslims do it too, in some countries, so it's probably cultural).

Religion(ANY), when taken to extremes, sucks ass. Extremism is fueled by hate. It's no coincidence that most of the Muslim countries that hate the West are ones that have been victimized by Western countries, and now the Western countries are blaming Islam for their woes...

Had there been Buddhists in the Middle East, you'd be crying about Buddhist terrorism.

[Sasa]

After you factor in Americans paying their own health insurance, Canadians come ahead in how much cash they have.

We do well enough...
Why Canada Is Able to Do Things Better
Most of the country understands that when it comes to government, you pay for what you get.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... es/533847/

Just like Christianity. Would you like to post this in the Conspiracy Theory subforum?

They aren't, so your argument isn't worth crap. I can talk to the Thais around me and ask them and they hardly know much about it, aside from the fact that there's a mosque on the edge of town, by the Christian church. You are generalizing without much knowledge about the world, at large. It's not just about the fear-mongering and hateful USA.

I'm an atheist, so you'll have to rethink your own statement. I find all religions to be almost equally atrocious when taken to their extreme. The same applies to ideologies. "Everything in moderation" being my mantra in regards to these things.

- See Christian Uganda a few years back sentencing homosexuals to prison for life.
- See Christian dominated African countries practicing FGM(Muslims do it too, in some countries, so it's probably cultural).

Religion(ANY), when taken to extremes, sucks ass. Extremism is fueled by hate. It's no coincidence that most of the Muslim countries that hate the West are ones that have been victimized by Western countries, and now the Western countries are blaming Islam for their woes...

Had there been Buddhists in the Middle East, you'd be crying about Buddhist terrorism.

I can feel your Patriotism, but let's face the reality: Canada is frustrated by significant brain-drain: not just native-born Canadian skilled people but those new migrants are taking Canada as a springboard in order to seek jobs in the US. Don't tell me you don't know about that, or you are reluctant to know.

What's the problem with Islam cult? Can you help vindicate it? Even people like you claiming like Muslims chose to stay in a Christian nation. Is Muslims are so good people we'd see mass migration over there, the reality is the other way around, refugees are all from Muslim countries.

You may keep a blind eye by saying most people across the world like Christianity/Buddhism as Islam. Have you heard "no-go" zones in the UK, similarly in Australia it's well known robbing often happens in Muslim areas where people are afraid of.

You claim to be atheist but you are lying (which you haven't realized), your "religious faith" is Islam is not a cult and can't be doubted, which is your doctrine. A real atheist/open-minded person has the courage to rethink anything, no prejudiced taboo. You even lack the courage to admit Islam is most criticized across the world, look, your doctrine!

While you finally acknowledged the fact Muslims are hating America...
"Had there been Buddhists in the Middle East, you'd be crying about Buddhist terrorism."
You obviously knows nothing about Buddhism, and simply assuming all religions are the same. A typical Buddhism country, Japan, no need to say, most liked in the world. Have you ever asked why?

Your ignorance & consequential successful brainwashing made you believe Muslims got hated because of the US military force. Well Japan was too occupied by US and even now large US bases are still there. Can you please make Japan the next middle east?