[Sasa]

Recent news reminds us that how many terrorists came into the US through the diversity visa directly or indirectly. Despite the potential impact on national security, it's fundamentally unreasonable to grant the precious US citizenship to randomly chosen people.

What's more it's also unfair and discriminatory: why only people in certain countries are eligible, regardless of their capability/character? So many highly educated people (like those graduated from MIT with PhD degree) and/or working in big firms (like those in Google/Microsoft) constantly contributing to the US society, are waiting in line for their greencard assessment for years, whereas those "diverse" people are able to enter the greatest nation straightforward. What the hell the fairness & justice is!

[Suntzu]

Time to shut down all/most immigration to the U.S.

[Pants-of-dog]

Recent news reminds us that how many terrorists came into the US through the diversity visa directly or indirectly. Despite the potential impact on national security, it's fundamentally unreasonable to grant the precious US citizenship to randomly chosen people.

How many terrorists have come in through the diversity program?

What's more it's also unfair and discriminatory: why only people in certain countries are eligible, regardless of their capability/character? So many highly educated people (like those graduated from MIT with PhD degree) and/or working in big firms (like those in Google/Microsoft) constantly contributing to the US society, are waiting in line for their greencard assessment for years, whereas those "diverse" people are able to enter the greatest nation straightforward. What the hell the fairness & justice is!

It is not an either or proposition. The MIT graduate working at Microsoft will not get her green card sooner if the lottery visa system is scrapped.

[Sasa]

Time to shut down all/most immigration to the U.S.

It's unrealistic to stop all immigration, unless in a country like North Korea.
But we at least can eliminate those who do not contribute to the society, like refugees/asylum seekers/partners.

[Sasa]

How many terrorists have come in through the diversity program?



It is not an either or proposition. The MIT graduate working at Microsoft will not get her green card sooner if the lottery visa system is scrapped.

Given the low rate of the occurrence of terrorist attack in the US in a general sense, the fact that more than one terrorists were known to have come to the country through that program appears a shocking warning.

Having said that despite the risk of terrorist attack what's the point of keeping this discriminatory and unfair immigration program? Yes I do think it's necessary to ease the pathway to residency for those working in Microsoft, but more importantly we must get rid of those unnecessary and detrimental immigration programs first.

Stop any refugee programs and anything like that.

[Pants-of-dog]

Given the low rate of the occurrence of terrorist attack in the US in a general sense, the fact that more than one terrorists were known to have come to the country through that program appears a shocking warning.

How many terrorists have come in through the diversity program?

Having said that despite the risk of terrorist attack what's the point of keeping this discriminatory and unfair immigration program? Yes I do think it's necessary to ease the pathway to residency for those working in Microsoft, but more importantly we must get rid of those unnecessary and detrimental immigration programs first.

Stop any refugee programs and anything like that.

Again, scrapping one immigration program does not magically make other immigration programs faster.

[Sasa]

How many terrorists have come in through the diversity program?



Again, scrapping one immigration program does not magically make other immigration programs faster.

Have said already, even though there's no terrorist having come through the diversity program, it still deserves abolishment. Why on earth do you import the useless people using a discriminatory approach?

It's more likely to make it quicker for highly skilled migrants to get greencards, if refugees/diversity programs got canceled, simply because the quota released from the latter would be given to more skilled applicants.
According to stats, only 17% of immigrants to the US each year are considered highly skilled. How successful do you think the immigration system is?

[Politiks]

Recent news reminds us that how many terrorists came into the US through the diversity visa directly or indirectly. Despite the potential impact on national security, it's fundamentally unreasonable to grant the precious US citizenship to randomly chosen people.

What's more it's also unfair and discriminatory: why only people in certain countries are eligible, regardless of their capability/character? So many highly educated people (like those graduated from MIT with PhD degree) and/or working in big firms (like those in Google/Microsoft) constantly contributing to the US society, are waiting in line for their greencard assessment for years, whereas those "diverse" people are able to enter the greatest nation straightforward. What the hell the fairness & justice is!

Greatest nation? Delusional much? The problem with US is the brains are not waiting in line anymore, unless they are from some war torn country or African and we all know that's not where the brains and high end executives come from.


Most people wanting to go to USA these days is very poor people not middle class or highly educated.

I agree immigration and visas policy to USA should be reviewed for many reasons, the delusion of thinking USA is the greatest nation in the world for certain ISN'T one of them because it isn't the greatest nation not even one of the top 5.

[Sasa]

Greatest nation? Delusional much? The problem with US is the brains are not waiting in line anymore, unless they are from some war torn country or African and we all know that's not where the brains and high end executives come from.


Most people wanting to go to USA these days is very poor people not middle class or highly educated.

I agree immigration and visas policy to USA should be reviewed for many reasons, the delusion of thinking USA is the greatest nation in the world for certain ISN'T one of them because it isn't the greatest nation not even one of the top 5.

US is not the greatest nation? I'm curious who is then in your mind, Russia, China, Cuba or North Korea?
Most people migrating to US are poor people? Absolutely right thanks to the Dem policy, that's why Trump got elected.
Nonetheless, most highly educated people across the world are still moving to the US (I wish you are clear about this logic).
I dare say no any other country on this planet attracts as many talented people as the US.

[Pants-of-dog]

Have said already, even though there's no terrorist having come through the diversity program, it still deserves abolishment. Why on earth do you import the useless people using a discriminatory approach?

So your argument that terrorists have used it to get in to the US is wrong, if there are none.

It's more likely to make it quicker for highly skilled migrants to get greencards, if refugees/diversity programs got canceled, simply because the quota released from the latter would be given to more skilled applicants.

No. The number of highly skilled migrants will not necessarily change if the diversity program is gone.

According to stats, only 17% of immigrants to the US each year are considered highly skilled. How successful do you think the immigration system is?

That would depend on how you define “success”.

[Politiks]

US is not the greatest nation? I'm curious who is then in your mind, Russia, China, Cuba or North Korea?
Most people migrating to US are poor people? Absolutely right thanks to the Dem policy, that's why Trump got elected.
Nonetheless, most highly educated people across the world are still moving to the US (I wish you are clear about this logic).
I dare say no any other country on this planet attracts as many talented people as the US.

Define greatest nation, what does that affirmation and sense means to you. Might be that doesn't mean the same to me and the rest of the world who laughs when Americans call US the greatest nation. I have to laugh at you implying I'm some sort of Communist by choosing options like China, Russia, Cuba or NK. Do you think those are the only nations in the world?

Not saying US is a bad country to live, I like US a lot. I'm just sure isn't by any meanings the greatest nation, first because such thing doesn't exist second because in a top 5 great countries to live in I don't think USA is one of them.

[Sasa]

So your argument that terrorists have used it to get in to the US is wrong, if there are none.



No. The number of highly skilled migrants will not necessarily change if the diversity program is gone.



That would depend on how you define “success”.

Terrorists may not intentionally use diversity program as a pathway, those Muslim terrorists are so widely distributed, the diversity program proved to be a risky method to let in terrorists inadvertently.
Look, highly skilled migrants just account for 17% of the whole immigrants, why not release the places from rest 83% to speed up the former?

The success according to my definition is, to import skilled people who can fill the positions in shortage (rather than competing a job with local candidates) and contribute to the society greatly (pay high tax), not rely on social welfare, eventually make American great again (more technologically advanced than rival states). That's why almost all countries across the world prioritize highly skilled immigration.

[Suntzu]

It's unrealistic to stop all immigration, unless in a country like North Korea.
But we at least can eliminate those who do not contribute to the society, like refugees/asylum seekers/partners.

Why? We don't need more people. We have something like 80,000,000 able bodied folks who don't work. There is no technical skill that we can't supply.

[Sasa]

Why? We don't need more people. We have something like 80,000,000 able bodied folks who don't work. There is no technical skill that we can't supply.

I didn't say I'm personally against a bill stopping all immigrants, but just not feasible, given the difficulty of just stopping refugees.

It might be better to stop all immigration temporarily to digest the existing ones.
But from a long-term view, it's still necessary to let in the smartest brains, or America would lag behind rivalry countries.

"80,000,000 able bodied folks who don't work"
I don't think those scientist/engineer migrants would steel their jobs. If it's still not clear enough, for example, NVIDIA is recruiting IC chip designers, while GOOGLE needs experts for the next generation deep learning artificial intelligence (both roles requires a PhD in relevant field as minimum).

Anyway it's out of the scope of this topic.

[Suntzu]

O.K., we can make exception for anyone with a PhD in hard sciences or a measured I.Q. above 145.

[Sasa]

O.K., we can make exception for anyone with a PhD in hard sciences or a measured I.Q. above 145.

I don't really think the STEM graduate makes sense, in other words I don't support it (for different reasons from Dem).

But compared to the quota used for refugees/illegal migrants/diversity, I'd rather prefer to let in PhD graduates indeed. At least those PhD migrants are unlikely to drain the welfare system or conduct terrorism.

[Pants-of-dog]

Terrorists may not intentionally use diversity program as a pathway, those Muslim terrorists are so widely distributed, the diversity program proved to be a risky method to let in terrorists inadvertently.

This criticism can be applied to any immigration program, including one sporting highly skilled and educated workers.

Look, highly skilled migrants just account for 17% of the whole immigrants, why not release the places from rest 83% to speed up the former?

The diversity program does not make up 83% of all immigrants to the US.

The success according to my definition is, to import skilled people who can fill the positions in shortage (rather than competing a job with local candidates) and contribute to the society greatly (pay high tax), not rely on social welfare, eventually make American great again (more technologically advanced than rival states). That's why almost all countries across the world prioritize highly skilled immigration.

Then your idea of success is different from the goals of the diversity program.

[Sasa]

This criticism can be applied to any immigration program, including one sporting highly skilled and educated workers.



The diversity program does not make up 83% of all immigrants to the US.



Then your idea of success is different from the goals of the diversity program.

You probably ignore the fact that, terrorist-prone/Muslims people are unlikely to succeed as scientist/PhDs in STEM. You may say it's discriminatory, no matter what you/others complain, it's true. Tell me how many scientists/PhD you know end up as terrorists?

I said the 83% are all unskilled migrant programs including the diversity program.

"the goals of the diversity program" is unrealistic and essentially political-correctness led. The premise at the time was, there's no enough people coming to the US while we have too much places to house people, no matter they are useful or not. It might have been fine when it was introduced in 1990s, where Muslim terrorists hadn't posed a notable threat, but no long so. If you go back to 100 year earlier, you'd say look people were allowed to move to the US without visa, isn't it a good idea?

Not just the US, most western countries have restricted immigration these days, typically Australia. It's a global tendency.

[ThirdTerm]

I think Trump already made it clear that he wants to abolish the diversity visa program. The visa lottery program invited dangerous and harmful people in from unstable and undeveloped countries such as Afghanistan and other Muslim countries within the former Soviet Union such as Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kirghizia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. People from these obscure countries have a better chance to win the visa lottery.

President Trump called on Friday for Congress to scrap the U.S. visa lottery system, suggesting that immigration officials are "picking the worst of the worst" out of a bin for entrance into the U.S.

"You think the countries are giving us their best people? No. What kind of a system is that?" Trump said at a press conference. "They give us their worst people, they put them in a bin, but in his hand when he's picking them is really the worst of the worst."

The Trump administration has targeted the system for its admittance of thousands of refugees from nations that are state sponsors of terrorism.

Trump renewed his calls this week for an end to the lottery and of "chain migration," a system that gives preference to immigrants with family connections already in the U.S., following an attempted suicide bombing in New York City on Monday.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... -the-worst

[Sasa]

I think Trump already made it clear that he wants to abolish the diversity visa program. The visa lottery program invited dangerous and harmful people in from unstable and undeveloped countries such as Afghanistan and other Muslim countries within the former Soviet Union.

But it doesn't happen yet. I wonder what makes it so difficult to stop such a ridiculous program, presumably the Dem is desperately defending it.

Similarly he promised to lift the wage bar for H1B work visa to $130,000. That's the program heavily abused by Indian firms who outsources low paid jobs to India and drain the quota.