Do you agree/disagree with the death penalty? Why? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14891976
Monday 26 February 2018
Death row inmate in great pain after gory and torturous botched execution, says lawyer
Executioners spent two and a half hours turning the killer onto his stomach, slapping his legs, to find a vein, says his lawyer.

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A death row inmate was left with a dozen puncture wounds after he was repeatedly jabbed in the legs, ankles and groin during what his lawyer described as a "torturous and bloody" botched execution.
Two execution team members spent two and a half hours on each side of Doyle Lee Hamm's lower body, searching for a vein.
The 61-year-old, who has terminal cancer, has been on death row for 30 years and was supposed to be executed by lethal injection on Thursday for the 1987 murder of a motel clerk during a robbery.
The US Supreme Court delayed the execution to consider an appeal by his lawyer Bernard Harcourt, who had argued there was a risk of a botched execution because a history of intravenous drug use had severely compromised Hamm's veins.
Judges, however, gave it the go-ahead and Alabama officials said the execution had been postponed because the delay had left them with little preparation and Hamm's death warrant expired at midnight.
In fact, the execution team's attempts to find a vein - which at one point included turning the inmate onto his stomach on a stretcher and slapping the back of his legs - failed.
The execution was eventually called off at 11.27pm.
"It was a gory, botched execution. They gave up when they could not find a vein," Mr Harcourt said afterwards.
"Our case was that this would be tortuous and bloody and they wouldn't succeed."
He said personnel were "probing his flesh and inserting needles" and "almost certainly punctured Doyle's bladder, because he was urinating blood for the next day".
"They were grinding a needle in his shine for many minutes, painfully," said Mr Harcourt.
He added: "Doyle was lying there praying and hoping that they could succeed because of the pain."
Alabama Department of Corrections commissioner Jeff Dunn said: "I wouldn't necessarily characterise what we had tonight as a problem...the only indication I have is that in their medical judgement it was more of a time issue given the late hour."
The execution is being reviewed by a federal court and a district judge has ordered a medical examination of Hamm.
State officials must also preserve any evidence, including his clothing.
Records from Georgia show that it typically takes that state less than 20 minutes to prepare an inmate for lethal injection, although there have been exceptions.
Alabama carries out executions by lethal injection unless an inmate requests the electric chair.
Elsewhere on the same day, the execution of Eric Scott Branch for the 1993 rape and murder of a college student went ahead as planned.
The 47-year-old thrashed about on his stretcher and shouted "murderers!" three times as he was put to death by lethal injection.
Meanwhile, 38-year-old Thomas "Bart" Whitaker, who hired a gunman to kill his mother and brother at their Houston home, had his death sentence commuted less than an hour before he was set to be executed.
The last-minute reprieve - from Texas governor Greg Abbott - came after the death row inmate's father who survived the 2003 attack pleaded with the state to grant clemency.

https://news.sky.com/story/death-row-in ... r-11268407
#14891979
I'm pretty indifferent to the death penalty if it is practiced lawfully and relatively swiftly. The US system, whereby people spend decades in prison beforehand, strikes me as completely pointless. How can a murderer who committed his crime at 31 be in a position to argue against execution on the grounds that he has terminal cancer at age 61? It's a farce. :lol:

I am completely against lethal injection though. It's a pathetic execution method. Long-drop hanging or the guillotine for civilians, and the firing squad for soldiers, strike me as much more sensible.
#14891982
It costs more than putting someone in prison till they die of old age, so many people are exonerated later on that you have to wonder how many innocent people get the death penalty, it's a pain in the ass and makes us look bad internationally, etc.
#14891997
mikema63 wrote:It costs more than putting someone in prison till they die of old age, so many people are exonerated later on that you have to wonder how many innocent people get the death penalty, it's a pain in the ass and makes us look bad internationally, etc.

How does China get away with it then? How do they afford it?

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#14892003
mikema63 wrote:A non-sequiter from solarcross

Non-sequitur. You can make an argument that it is barbaric or whatever but making a cost argument is ridiculous. Executions are cheap as chips as the Chinese demonstrate in huge numbers. In the US it is liberal lawyers that are expensive... You could make executions cheaper in the US by sending all the liberal lawyers to China for.. "processing".
mikema63 wrote:Please stop, I can handle much more of this high brow and well informed debate. :roll:


You think you mean that ironically but the sad truth is you mean it literally.
#14892004
SolarCross wrote:How does China get away with it then? How do they afford it?

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China dont give a fuck about what the west think

they know that their time will come and in a few decades they will dominate the world



@mikema63

Imo rapists murderers pedophiles those are the kind of people that dont deserve to live and its a pity that the state should spend cash on maintaining their pitiful lives
#14892011
annatar1914 wrote:It is cheap to not support the executed person in jail. And, it certainly ''reverses'' the criminal and any potential (and likely) recidivism. Of course I'm not big on prisons anyway.


Actually far cheaper to put them in prison for life considering the extra expense of a death penalty trial and the cost of the appeal process.
#14892018
Suntzu wrote:Actually far cheaper to put them in prison for life considering the extra expense of a death penalty trial and the cost of the appeal process.


I think the costly death penalty process only occurs in countries where they don't wanna make irreversible mistakes, and more importantly, where lawyers charge extortionate fees.

I don't think Iran and China spend that much for these judiciary processes because they don't give fair trials to begin with.
#14892020
Zionist Nationalist wrote:China dont give a fuck about what the west think

they know that their time will come and in a few decades they will dominate the world


Germany was probably viewed as such in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Guess how did they end up?



Zionist Nationalist wrote:Imo rapists murderers pedophiles those are the kind of people that dont deserve to live and its a pity that the state should spend cash on maintaining their pitiful lives


Don't forget corrupt and oppressive politicians.
#14892035
Agree with @Zionist Nationalist on both points here.
The best way for the death penalty is a bullet to the head and then throw the body in an unmarked grave, not in graveyards though.

And China indeed doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks, it has the logistics and the potential to be a global super power without anybody's help or agreement.


For the general topic, I do agree with the death penalty. Infact I think it should be expanded to include many more categories.
I think prison populations world wide should be decreased, things like drugs should not be illegal.
Things like small theft done by poor people and those in need should result in long prison sentences, rather just regular detention with the money paid back.
And serious crimes like rape, murder with prior intention, child molestation, spying, etc should all have the death penalty as a result.
#14892055
Heisenberg wrote:I'm pretty indifferent to the death penalty if it is practiced lawfully and relatively swiftly. The US system, whereby people spend decades in prison beforehand, strikes me as completely pointless. How can a murderer who committed his crime at 31 be in a position to argue against execution on the grounds that he has terminal cancer at age 61? It's a farce.

I am completely against lethal injection though. It's a pathetic execution method. Long-drop hanging or the guillotine for civilians, and the firing squad for soldiers, strike me as much more sensible.


Although I would not call myself indifferent to (but rather enthustiastically in favor of) capital punishment, I would otherwise agree 100% of everything just said here.

I also do not understand those who are arguing that executions are inherently expensive. They are not. A bullet is like 21 cents and most furnaces need to run anyway.... :lol:

I also think public executions could be a good idea, following Foucault's argument from his work Discipline and Punish.
#14892209
The death penalty is a barbaric practice that only the most uncivilized/immoral countries in the world utilize.

The justice systems still make far too many mistakes.
#14892221
The self-righteous Western countries that have outlawed capital punishment in their borders routinely engage in directly, or support either financially/with manpower/with material attacks against civilian populations around the world. The same countries that engage in the arrogance of a perceived moral high ground still take part in murdering people around the world, whether themselves or by providing assistance, and then reaping the spoils, of the stronger Western nations engaged in murdering people.

It's concerning how justice systems around the world routinely make mistakes that send innocent people to prison for most of their lives, or innocent people to their graves. There are a class of citizens whose continued existence is not conducive to the rest of society, and who pose a continued danger to other citizens. These include examples given by others in this thread: serial rapists, murderers, and pedophiles. Disposing of them as we would dispose of rabid animals has less to do with revenge than about removing people who, as of yet, cannot be reasonably rehabilitated with a degree of certainty (chemical castration of sexual predators has resulted in some promising results, but it's not a permanent measure and doesn't work for everyone).

As a Marxist, there's also the necessity of either rehabilitating or disposing of the capitalist class, who have never had a problem employing police, private mercenaries, and the military to murder and dispose of members of the working class for centuries. A bullet or two to the head worked very well during the Revolution, and I see no reason why the low cost of a couple bullets is an issue.
#14892227
Execution vans are used in the PRC.

After the 1997 decision to legalize lethal injection as a form of execution, PRC officials began using execution vans across China. Becoming popular in 2006, these officials state that the vans are cost-effective by allowing communities without the money to build dedicated death rows to kill prisoners without the costs associated with sending prisoners away for death. Former Chinese judge and current lawyer Qiu Xingsheng argues that "some places can't afford the cost of sending a person to Beijing—perhaps $250—plus $125 more for the drug." Because Beijing is the only place where the drug is manufactured, the vans have allowed localities to administer the death sentence where the crime took place.Estimates place the number of execution vans in operation at around 40; the PRC has not confirmed this number.

A converted 24-seat bus, the execution van keeps the appearance of a normal police van on the outside with no markings indicating its purpose. The rear of the vehicle houses a windowless chamber where the execution takes place. Several cameras are present and feed closed-circuit televisions in the front of the van; a recording can be made if desired. The bed itself slides out of the wall under its own power, on which the convicted person is strapped down. A syringe is put into the arm by a technician and a police official administers the injection by pressing a button.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van





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