Born slaves, we must buy our skins back from banks - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14903134
Crantag wrote:I don't know the answer. My point was mostly that the blunt and obtuse implement of revolution is no longer really on the table, though it was in past periods. The caveman's club (revolution) has been removed. Previous norms were affected. But the show goes on. The tension which builds up could be what it is which breeds fascism.

Very insightful. I do believe that is what we are seeing. I have been confused by the contradictions I see in theory and practice. Acceptance of fascism due to the impotence of revolution does give clarity to what I see.
Is it conscious or subconscious in your opinion?
Edit: I would also agree with @Potemkin revolution is always on people’s list of actions. The disillusionment with it’s possible success still results in leaning toward Fascism.
#14903158
One Degree wrote:...revolution is emotion based and therefore can not accomplish real change for the better...

Doing nothing is also emotion-based (fear).

And the idea that "revolutions don't really change anything" is obviously a product of commercial media and the imposition of the values of rich people on the poor. No one in France wants to go back to the Seigneurial system, and the USA isn't dying to become part of the British Empire and give back all that First-Nations land they stole. Cubans just voted to stay communist, not to return to brothels with white pimps.

it just changes our jailers.

Both the Bastille and the Moncada Barracks were closed down after their revolutions. Elites often get prison-happy as their power is threatened, and the repression will get more and more intense, pushing even outliers into wanting to revolt just to free all the innocent people that decadent and useless elites restrain out of fear.
#14903163
QatzelOk wrote:Doing nothing is also emotion-based (fear).

And the idea that "revolutions don't really change anything" is obviously a product of commercial media and the imposition of the values of rich people on the poor. No one in France wants to go back to the Seigneurial system, and the USA isn't dying to become part of the British Empire and give back all that First-Nations land they stole. Cubans just voted to stay communist, not to return to brothels with white pimps.


Both the Bastille and the Moncada Barracks were closed down after their revolutions. Elites often get prison-happy as their power is threatened, and the repression will get more and more intense, pushing even outliers into wanting to revolt just to free all the innocent people that decadent and useless elites restrain out of fear.

Fidel Castro was in power for 52 years. To pretend his revolution was anything other than replacing one alpha dog with another is delusional. No matter what color you paint the prison, it is still a prison.
You can argue whether people ‘appear’ to be better off, but you can not really quantify it. Castro created what he wanted. The only choice is you agree with what he created or you disagree and suffer the consequences. This is no different from any other government under any other ideology. The best you can say is the revolution switched which people are happy with the results and it usually is not the ground troops who did the actual fighting. It is the new elites. Are you suggesting closing a symbolic prison equals the elimination of punishment for dissidents?
#14903168
One Degree wrote:Fidel Castro was in power for 52 years. To pretend his revolution was anything other than replacing one alpha dog with another is delusional.

What changed after the revolution is that equality among Cubans was greatly increased, and the island became much more self-sufficient. Batista used chemicals like Agent Orange on Cuba's people, which is beyond any kind of "alpha dog" behavior. Vampire is more like it.

No matter what color you paint the prison, it is still a prison.

All societies are prisons. But every prison needs to be remodeled every few years to keep away deadly mold.

You can argue whether people ‘appear’ to be better off, but you can not really quantify it.

This is a weakness of the English language. "Better off" can't really be numerically quantified.

Castro created what he wanted.

This is totally false and demonstrates a lack of understanding or interest in the timeline of the Cuban revolution. Much of what the Castro government did was based on trial and error. Castro did what he had to, based on the results of other regulatory changes and the shifting of American power against the Cuban revolution.

Trial and error is the way new things are discovered. Fidel Castro's governments gradually and reactively invented a cooperative form of modern society.

Cubans are born with zero debt to anyone - except their own mothers for birthing them. No banking cabal owns their skins. And with a genaralized education and enough free time and friends to chat about their society, it's unlikely that they will allow some fast-talking talk-show-host-style politician talk them into debt slavery. Like we did, us poor but busy beavers under capitalism and its oligarchy.

In actual fact, capitalism produces what it wants, and one of the things it "wants" is stupid, malleable slaves who are owned by the banks.
#14903177
@QatzelOk
It is very frustrating for me to debate with you. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with you simultaneously.
Personally, I like the Cuba you describe and so I have no argument. My argument is based upon the people in Cuba who do not share that view. Cuba is as much of a Hell for them as capitalism is for you. It is simply a choice. There is no better or worse to it and someone is always in charge.
Even though Cuba experimented, the final choices were Castro’s. The experiments that were allowed were Castro’s. It is Castro’s Cuba. I would even accept benevolent dictator if you insist, but that still means the people will disagree on if it is benevolent.
As you know, I simply do not agree one type of government can be judged superior to another. They have too few differences and the value should only be determined by those being governed. Obviously, there were many happy Cubans under Batista as well as Castro. I am content with simply saying some like it and some don’t. If most want change then they should make the sacrifices to bring it about and I believe this can be accomplished without armed insurrection if enough individuals have courage to sacrifice.
#14903261
One Degree, I don't want to have part of the Cuba debate in this thread. There's a separate Cuba has proven that.... thread to talk about whether it was "Fidel's Cuba" or whether this is just a Western construct to make us think he's another Hitler (totally bad person with totally bad politics).

But I will just remind you that in Castro's Cuba, the people owe Western banks nothing, and no one is born into debt slavery.

This happened in our mafia-addled fake democracy, where everyone is glued to commercial propaganda, and live in social isolation tank suburbs. We not only don't own our skin, we don't own our own opinions or communities anymore. This is a much larger tragedy than it first appeared on page 1.
#14903271
QatzelOk wrote:One Degree, I don't want to have part of the Cuba debate in this thread. There's a separate Cuba has proven that.... thread to talk about whether it was "Fidel's Cuba" or whether this is just a Western construct to make us think he's another Hitler (totally bad person with totally bad politics).

But I will just remind you that in Castro's Cuba, the people owe Western banks nothing, and no one is born into debt slavery.

This happened in our mafia-addled fake democracy, where everyone is glued to commercial propaganda, and live in social isolation tank suburbs. We not only don't own our skin, we don't own our own opinions or communities anymore. This is a much larger tragedy than it first appeared on page 1.

I tried to bring it back to the topic with my last sentence. People recognize the problems in the US to the point of bitching about them. The welfare system and a steady diet of sensational distractions prevents us from suffering enough or thinking enough to rebel. Trump’s election showed how narrow the line has become. Unfortunately, most did not understand the opportunity and willingly resist the opportunity for change. Of course, Trump himself probably does not understand enough to actually lead it.
So we are back to people must change to create change. We just showed we might be closer to accomplishing that change.
#14903780
One Degree wrote:Unfortunately, most did not understand the opportunity and willingly resist the opportunity for change. Of course, Trump himself probably does not understand enough to actually lead it.
So we are back to people must change to create change. We just showed we might be closer to accomplishing that change.

Why would a born-rich commercial-media-celebrity millionaire do anything to change our current system?

And why do you think we're closer to "change?" Most people in our societies don't realize the implications of owing your first 60,000 dollars to banks for services you weren't born to enjoy.

Most people know more about pop culture than they do about debt slavery and banking cabals. And pop culture trains us to reject narratives about crooked banks and unjust wars. We're all just fighting bad guys like Spiderman, and protecting banks from another holocaust. That's where the public mind has been lead by commerce.
#14914972
I'd just like to point out that Kanye West is reading this thread. :p

Yep, it's a choice. A collective choice.

"When you hear about slavery for 400 years ... For 400 years? That sounds like a choice."

Note, he's not talking about black slavery exclusively, he's talking about corporate slavery in general, hence the 400 year remark. All you have to do is listen to New Slaves, and you'll realize that his statement is not a racially divisive comment.

Slavery in America, typically associated with blacks from Africa, was an enterprise that began with the shipping of more than 300,000 white Britons to the colonies. This little known history is fascinatingly recounted in White Cargo (New York University Press, 2007). Drawing on letters, diaries, ship manifests, court documents, and government archives, authors Don Jordan and Michael Walsh detail how thousands of whites endured the hardships of tobacco farming and lived and died in bondage in the New World.

Following the cultivation in 1613 of an acceptable tobacco crop in Virginia, the need for labor accelerated. Slavery was viewed as the cheapest and most expedient way of providing the necessary work force. Due to harsh working conditions, beatings, starvation, and disease, survival rates for slaves rarely exceeded two years. Thus, the high level of demand was sustained by a continuous flow of white slaves from England, Ireland, and Scotland from 1618 to 1775, who were imported to serve America's colonial masters.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/07/the_forgotten_history_of_britains_white_slaves_in_america.html

Furthermore, the 'choice' is not one-sided, he's talking about slave masters and their decision to enslave other human beings. Again, this is all backed by the way humans think. It's a choice.
#14915055
QatzelOk wrote:Image
source

We're all Haitians now

After the Haitian Revolution of 1804, France refused to recognize the freedom of the people there, instead, demanding that Haitians "buy their skin back " for a huge sum of money, which put the the new state into major debt for more than a century.



So here, a few years before the "freeing" of American slaves, you have the principle of "buying ones skin back from the masters" established by France, that pinnacle of political sophistication and modern diplomacy. And France's post-revolutionary aristocracy somehow manages to trample over any concept of equality or fairness in order to rake in more money without working for it - a key feature of an oligarchy.

So this is where the principle of "losers have to buy their skin from the rich" comes from. It's a bit like being taxed at school by a huge bully who's failed a few grades.

Modern bankers have universalized this scheme, with national debts. And the oligarchs that we elect to "govern" us have fed them our skins by voluntarily putting their own citizens into debt to private interests.

The average American owes approximately $60,000 at birth. If he pays this debt back at a rate of a thousand dollars per year, it takes an average American about 60 years to "buy his skin back" from private bankers.

In Canada, this figure is about $50,000 (fifty years to buy our skins back from private bankers), but in Japan, it's $90,000 per person to buy their skins back.

Right now, your skin probably belongs to private bankers. When might your skin belong to you again? Check out this chart to find out.

Image
source

How much money have "your" oligarchy governments borrowed in your name? When will you "own your skin?"


This is very true Q. The new slavery within a modern capitalist scheme is crushing debt that is inflated. Puerto Rico is a test case to see if they can run a society via bankers. The PROMESA panel is run by bankers who took away even the sham of self governance of Puerto Rico away from local elections. They want to be paid first before clinics, schools, roads and basic services. It is a nightmare because if they are successful and don't get any push back they will reproduce the model all over the world wherever there exists debt that is publicly held and where there is political weakness.

It can happen to many struggling in the red states.

Check out this video from RT news where Jesse Ventura discusses the issue with a journalist.

#14916015
The Banksters of the world have a different strategy to endebt every nation on Earth, if they're allowed to.

In Puerto Rico, according to the video that Tainari88 posted above, Congress has not helped Puerto Rico at all. According to Jesse Ventura, this is because the US elite (and the government it controls) doesn't care about brown people.

But I think it's more accurate to say that Banksters (and their owned politicians) don't care about the 99% of the world's population who didn't get rich on inheritance or on racketeering.

What I find even more tragic than the crushing debt that is ruining Puerto Rico, is the sick dependence that their crashed economy has produced. Rather than developing a "Puerto Rican" economy that suits the islands lifestyle and natural resources, it has a hand-me-down plate of table scraps from America's banking class, and the table scraps are poisoned with the enforced passivity that comes with eating off of someone else's table scraps.

Likewise, by being a welfare bum holding out a star-spangled MAGA cap, local pride and confidence erodes, and there is no emergence of another world economic model to inspire other countries.

Just a bunch of poor islanders who are watching foreigners foreclose on "their skins" that they will never be able to buy back.
#14916700
(soundtrack)


"The private man shuts himself away from the public consequences of his own technologies." - McLuhan-Nevitt

"Henry Ford, horrified at the destruction of the rural America he loved, a destruction caused by his own motor car, recreated a minuscule figure of that old world in Greenfield Village in Dearborn, Michigan. Thomas Edison preached the Puritan ethic even as he threw absentmindedly into existence a new electronic ground which was to make that ethic impossible." -Eric McLuhan

QatzelOk wrote:The Banksters of the world have a different strategy to endebt every nation on Earth, if they're allowed to.

The Necronomicon got us starving like Ramadan
Standing roadside with a piece of cardboard for Chinese Yuan, c'mon
Isolate the subject from his friends family and his co-workers
Minimum wage means no purchase
No job - no purpose, run around praise the lord in churches
I pray to God my old sins don't surface


In Puerto Rico, according to the video that Tainari88 posted above, Congress has not helped Puerto Rico at all. According to Jesse Ventura, this is because the US elite (and the government it controls) doesn't care about brown people.
The East visit the West, the West visits the East
Brother should not war with brother, our ancestors were stubborn
They kicked the can down the road for nothing
The burden of being black and murdered, being whacked behind the curtain but what if you really didn't deserve it?
Doesn't matter, they want blood - no less, no more
We are consumed by war, a slave class y'all
Scraps on the table, forage for more food when I am able
So much abundance, praise Azazel
You have no heart, you have no conscience
Completely immoral, God bless the godless


But I think it's more accurate to say that Banksters (and their owned politicians) don't care about the 99% of the world's population who didn't get rich on inheritance or on racketeering.

Mud, water, boots, drying off by the book of Genesis
A new way of life is imminent
You ain't special, they gonna get you
I ain't talking about nobody in particular, it's hypothetical
Think critical, reticle scan by sentinel
Everybody left the theatre sad but it was memorable
Cross over the border to Mexico
Pepe said, "Yo if I was you, I would do that slow"
The Godzilla Nimrod, tomahawk look from the side
He screamed out he was from Brooklyn with pride
I refugee from Guantanamo Bay
But I ain't gotta go there for me to say it that way
Black rock, tungsten padlocks, land locked
No trash box, they said it was toxic, the readings were hot


What I find even more tragic than the crushing debt that is ruining Puerto Rico, is the sick dependence that their crashed economy has produced. Rather than developing a "Puerto Rican" economy that suits the islands lifestyle and natural resources, it has a hand-me-down plate of table scraps from America's banking class, and the table scraps are poisoned with the enforced passivity that comes with eating off of someone else's table scraps.

We danced around in shanty town wearing hand me downs
Wow, back from the war, I drink brandy now
Whiskey sour after sundown, low crawl on the ground
Got sand in my mouth, I'm in Miami now
Snapped out of it, didn't know where I was, she messed up my buzz, she don't love me but she give me massage
And no matter how bad things turn out today
When I watch her dance, it all goes away
A golden Kazakh eagle soars over Hajj
Looking down at the crowds, it was just a mirage
The tenants in the house of cards are too big to jail behind bars
Their problems too big to solve
The body cannot be free when the mind is in prison
Ears that hear are no match for ears that listen
Eyes that see are no match for eyes that see through
Yes, I am a slave and so are you
Bliss, ignorance, weakness is a symptom of innocence
Pay your penance, go join the prisoners
Chemtrails, airborne spills, destroy your sense of smells
Die now, die later, heads or tails


Likewise, by being a welfare bum holding out a star-spangled MAGA cap, local pride and confidence erodes, and there is no emergence of another world economic model to inspire other countries.

Just a bunch of poor islanders who are watching foreigners foreclose on "their skins" that they will never be able to buy back.

Some live in the present, some live in the future
It doesn't matter cause we all live inside a computer
I was a mobile cell phone owner, wireless station controller
It didn't help my radiation exposure
From the higgs boson fermions and protons
At this rate I will always discover more songs
Upset, bored, nothing else to do but record
Or spend time with family and get ignored
No electricity of course
Now we can all sit down at the table and be a family of four
A great new attitude on life
In spite of being loved only a little and even less liked
Find your ambitious side, the odds greatly stacked against my kind
But I still gotta try
I ain't hating on the rich and the famous, I just hate the way they played us, they never give us equal exchanges
No individuals are named, they allocate false blame
No change just more of the same
They're inspired by their desires, a steady stream of water projected between a ring of fire, a pyre of fire
The devil never compromises, the leaders were wrong
Judgement comes down from the skies and fries us all
That's why they dropped the ball
#14917186
SpecialOlympian wrote:I'm still confused by the whole "you owe $60,000" at birth thing. That just seems to be some made up nonsense.

You're going to drop your Kraft cheese sandwich and glass of Tang when you find out that 60,000 dollars is the national debt per capita of the US government. This means that USA newborns will have to assume 60,000 dollars of debt from generations that spent their lives before they were even born.

The Catholic church and Islam prohibit playing usury games with future generations. But the USA and Canada have always followed orders from the banks, and we bomb anyone who doesn't follow the bankster program.
#14917254
TL;DR all 3 pages.
My reply to the OP is ---

This is ridiculous. The US national debt is never going to be paid off with tax revenue. It might be paid off with newly created/printed dollars. Each individual does not owe it, and does not make payments on it.

The US Gov. can and will keep rolling it over forever. It must not default on it or there will be chaos in the world economy. However, since the US can always create new dollars out of thin air, the US can always make the required payments. This may some day [if Congress goes hog wild with spending while cutting taxes] lead to inflation or even high inflation.

But, my main point is that the individuals of America are not required to make payments on the national debt. So, I don't see any sense in the OP's points.
#14917263
Any society that has fiat money - which currently is any and all countries on earth - has to have debt. Thats because debt is the only way to generate money with fiat money. The concept of fiat money has been called a ponzi scheme for this property - the only way to get money is to get into debt, debt however produces interest, which can only be paid if you get into even more debt. However unlike a ponzi scheme, fiat money never collapses.

The central bank of any country will generate debt on demand to give its society the right amount of money. The right amount of money is defined by the equation 'average circulation speed of money times amount of money equals the total amount of trade'. Since both circulation speed and total amount of trade are sort of predictable values, the total amount of money is known quite precisely as well.

There are two potential debtors in society: the state and the rich. In most countries taxes for the rich are currently low. That means the state has to accumulate debt in order to guarantee that theres enough money. Thats state debt: you pay interest to the rich. If the taxes for the rich are high, its the other way around: the rich are getting in debt and have to pay interest.

Thus no, the OP is wrong. You're never free of debt, ever. The point of debt is not that you pay the money back, the point of debt is that you pay interest. Indefinitely.
#14917279
Steve_American wrote:the individuals of America are not required to make payments on the national debt. So, I don't see any sense in the OP's points.

We all pay back this debt through our taxes. Your 'inability' to understand this seems to be wrapped up in lots of texts and smoke screens.

Negotiator wrote:Thus no, the OP is wrong. You're never free of debt, ever. The point of debt is not that you pay the money back, the point of debt is that you pay interest. Indefinitely.

Exactly. The more debt the state has taken on in your name, the more you will have to pay from the moment you start paying taxes. And the debt of a nation affects babies in other ways. A society that is in debt will cut social programs like child-care and public schools eventually.

So not only are babies born with debt to pay, but they must pay it often after having endured a flawed childhood and a poor quality education.

Why do our nation states think it's okay to drown future children in debt so that we can consume to the max today? Are our leaders completely immoral and barbaric?

Answer: yes, they are. Hyper-consumption and moneyed isolation have ruined our elite and rendered them very harmful and parasitic. The 1 % have ensured that the 99% are so in debt, that the elite can live off of the interest. They have ensured this by bribing our governments, one after another, and flattering them in the commercial press when they follow bankster orders.
#14917457
Qatz,
You are flat wrong. Taxes are not used in the US at this time to pay the interest on the debt.
Tax revenues are not now sufficient [and have not been for many years] to pay for current spending.
The US Gov. therefore, borrows the dollars to pay off the bonds as they come due, including the interest.
It is true that money is fungible. But, I don't see that this is relevant in this case
So, the taxpayers are not now paying the interest on the debt.

See also, my posts on why the US can never use tax dollars to pay off [or even down much] the national debt. There I explain that running a surplus causes to people to stop spending rather than pull dollars out of their life savings to pay the taxes. When people stop spending this is by definition a drop in the GDP, when growth in the GDP goes negative, by definition a recession starts. Running a surplus in a recession is just stupid.
#14917463
The fashionable view on this forum is that it is a perfectly healthy and normal arrangement that the US has devolved into a society based on monopoly money.

Steve American, you are flat wrong. Taxes are used to service the national debt.

A picture speaks a thousand words.
Image
The average household paid $13,000 in income taxes to Uncle Sam for 2015. Of that, the federal government spent:

$3,728.92 (or 28.7%) on health programs
$3,299.13 (or 25.4%) on the Pentagon and the military
$1,776.06 (or 13.7%) on interest on the debt
$1,040.93 (or 8%) on unemployment and labor programs
$771.26 (or 5%) on veterans benefits
$598.74 (or 4.6%) on food and agriculture programs
$461.59 (or 3.6%) on education programs
$377.50 (or 2.9%) on government expenses
$250.03 (or 1.9%) on housing and community programs
$207.68 (or 1.6%) on energy and environmental programs
$194.29 (or 1.5%) on international affairs programs
$150.68 (or 1.2%) on transportation funding
$143.20 (or 1.1%) on science funding


http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/18/pf/taxe ... index.html

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