UK has no proof of Russia’s role in Skripal poisoning - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14902950
Atlantis wrote:@foxdemon, the Russiagate investigation won't go anywhere. It'll either peter out gradually or collapse all of a sudden. Trump is dirty like hell, but there won't be any smoking gun.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories (reality is far more fascinating), but if I wanted to venture a guess as to the connection between the Skripal case and Russiagate, it is that the deep state is trying to use the Skripal case to frustrate Trump's desire to engineer a rapprochement with Russia at a time the Russiagate investigation is about to collapse. Miller, Steel, Skripal, et al, all knew each other. They are part of the UK's murky intelligence community. The same people, at the very heart of the British establishment, that via Cambridge Analytica, SCL, etc., pervert democratic processes worldwide and then blame it on Putin.

Anyways, my original analysis is still correct: a false flag operation by exiled anti-Putin oligarchs and criminals, with or without the knowledge/consent of British intelligence services, to get the West to punish Putin. All the facts fit this scenario. That different people use the incidence for different aims is only to be expected.


In the meantime, Theresa May's narrative is starting to collapse even in the MSM. Both Deutschlandfunk and Deutsche Welle, the public voices of German diplomacy, have started to cast doubt on the story and keep on underlining the importance of good relations with Russia in a series of articles.

UK scientists unable to verify source of spy attack nerve agent



The British apparently don't mind having a categorical liar (or should it be notorious liar) for foreign secretary. To the rest of us, it is hard to understand why he hasn't resigned already. But I guess that he's just the man for the job in the land of the perfidious Albion. :p

How is poor Theresa going to explain it to the allies?

If the Skripals live and are able to talk, does that thicken the plot? I read yesterday that the father is still in a coma, but Yulia has woken up, is able to take food and water, and has spoken some words.
#14903025
I don’t think the official position seems to have changed from the overly specific “of a type produced in Russia.”

Still, the news from porton down suggests two things. One, Boris is not to be trusted even when the stakes are nuclear war. Two, it’s unlikely Britain could pull off any kind of conspiracy on the matter when they couldn’t get a couple of mod scientists to lie.

When asked for clarification on Mr Johnson's comments about Russia being the source, a Foreign Office source told Sky News he "misspoke", but that they could "see that" interpretation.
Responding, Labour MP Chris Williamson wrote on Twitter: "Dear Britain, Boris Johnson is your Foreign Secretary and he just lied to justify our country's foreign policy. How does that make you feel?"


Boris does a lot of misspeaking it seems .....
#14903058
Crantag wrote:If the Skripals live and are able to talk, does that thicken the plot? I read yesterday that the father is still in a coma, but Yulia has woken up, is able to take food and water, and has spoken some words.


I don't think that it is going to make any difference unless Yulia confesses to having carried the poison herself. The whole family is dodgy and it wouldn't be surprising if they had tried to make money by selling Novichoks on the black market. After all, what does an ex-spy do to make a living? The Brits probably pay him a small pension, but these people are greedy. Considering how rare the stuff is, a small sample could be worth millions.

If she survives, the scandal that'll come into for foreground is that the British have refused Russian demands (consulate and family) for access to the Skripals for a whole months now. That is contrary to diplomatic procedure.

At yesterday's press conference the head of the Porton Down chemical weapons lab, Gary Aitkenhead, made it clear that Porton Down

- cannot confirm that the nerve agent was made in Russia

- has samples of a "similar nerve agent,"

which means that there is still no evidence that nerve agents of the Novichok-family have ever been synthesized in Russia. But we know now that this type of nerve agent has been synthesized in Porton Down and probably dozens of labs around the world.

The Russian scientist, Vil Mirzayanov, who published the Novichok story in 2007 moved to the US in 1996. In 2008, the then Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, advised the American team for the chemical weapons talks to "avoid substantive talks about Novichoks."

Mirzayanov is an anti-Putin activist and "head of the Tatar government in exile" who wants the Russian Federation to be dismantled and thinks that Russia should be reduced to the "the limits of Muscovy". In other words, our boy Vil is the ultimate wet dream of every ultra-Neocon, who wants to destroy the Russian Federation. @layman, he must be a man to your liking?

I think it is possible that Mirzayanov invented most of the Novichok story while working in the US to damage Russia. He probably worked with US Neocons to hedge plans for toppling Putin, first the Tatarstan separatist movement and then the Novichok story. If Clinton knew that Mirzayanove had invented most of it, it would explain why she wanted to avoid discussion of Novichoks among the chemists at the OPCW.

layman wrote:Still, the news from porton down suggests two things. One, Boris is not to be trusted even when the stakes are nuclear war. Two, it’s unlikely Britain could pull off any kind of conspiracy on the matter when they couldn’t get a couple of mod scientists to lie.


Being incompetent doesn't exclude hedging conspiracies. On the contrary, the two go together. I'm afraid the hubris of power is to think that they can pull off everything because they have the power to suppress evidence under a cloak of state secrets.

From past experience we know that the British government botched the Litvinenko investigation and the Dr. Kelly investigation.
#14903063
Atlantis wrote:I don't think that it is going to make any difference unless Yulia confesses to having carried the poison herself. The whole family is dodgy and it wouldn't be surprising if they had tried to make money by selling Novichoks on the black market. After all, what does an ex-spy do to make a living? The Brits probably pay him a small pension, but these people are greedy. Considering how rare the stuff is, a small sample could be worth millions.

If she survives, the scandal that'll come into for foreground is that the British have refused Russian demands (consulate and family) for access to the Skripals for a whole months now. That is contrary to diplomatic procedure.


What I was thinking about is a scenario such as there was an assassination attempt which aimed to silence a witness. If the witness survives, a plot twist could come of it, no? Of course this is mere speculation regarding just one possibility. If they both should survive, I also don't know what their condition will be like or what the recovery process looks like.
#14903069
Russia is now in full troll mode regarding access to citizens it regards as traitors and threatened with death via its puppet media outlets.

The whole Russian narrative that they are pushing on rt very much fits in with the motives I outlined earlier.

I may well be missing something but The official British claim was specifically not that it was made in Russia. Only of a “type”. Boris sexed up this language, along with other individuals.

@Atlantis splitting up the uk is one of the many ways you personally mean us harm. I have no such wish for Russia or anywhere else. At least not in Europe anyway.
#14903076
Why did the British government not just wait till the investigation was finished before accusing anybody? What could possibly be the reason for this?

layman wrote:splitting up the uk is one of the many ways you personally mean us harm. I have no such wish for Russia or anywhere else. At least not in Europe anyway.

Whether it's harmful is a matter of opinion. About half of Scots disagree with you and i doubt being separated from this moronic tory governement and from brexit would be harmful. It's mostly old age pensioners who get their info from the MSM that are on the unionist side.

So you should be thanking Atlantis. :D

Also you're comparison is wrong because the U.K is a union of nations, not a single nation, it's not really comparable to most countries. There is no need for this union any more.
Last edited by Seeker8 on 04 Apr 2018 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
#14903078
Atlantis wrote:If she survives, the scandal that'll come into for foreground is that the British have refused Russian demands (consulate and family) for access to the Skripals for a whole months now. That is contrary to diplomatic procedure.

In what way? The father is not someone who'd want Russian diplomats to have access to him without his specific permission, given the way they locked him up a few years ago. And what's the point of consular access to someone in a coma? For the daughter, now that she's out of a coma, that's a decision for her to make. If she's asked for a consul, then access should be given. Is there a report that she's asked for that?

Have you evidence they refused access to the family? From what I've heard, there are no other family members in the UK, and none have traveled there to see them in their coma.
#14903079
layman wrote:Russia is now in full troll mode regarding access to citizens it regards as traitors and threatened with death via its puppet media outlets.

The whole Russian narrative that they are pushing on rt very much fits in with the motives I outlined earlier.

I may well be missing something but The official British claim was specifically not that it was made in Russia. Only of a “type”. Boris sexed up this language, along with other individuals.

@Atlantis splitting up the uk is one of the many ways you personally mean us harm. I have no such wish for Russia or anywhere else. At least not in Europe anyway.



Here’s a tale from Sweden.

@Prosthetic Conscience might want to read it also.

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2018/04/how-deal-russian-information-warfare-ask-sweden/147154/?oref=d-river

Swedish armed forces exercise against enemy submarines in 2016.

BY ELISABETH BRAW
READ BIO
APRIL 3, 2018

TOPICS

COMMENTARY
RUSSIA
INFOWAR
JOEL THUNGREN / FÖRSVARSMAKTEN

Other nations can learn from the Swedes’ long experience with mysterious incidents followed by disinformation campaigns.

A mysterious incident occurs. It can’t be conclusively attributed, but the targeted country pins the attack with near-certainty on another country — which unleashes a disinformation campaign, ridiculing the target and proposing a range of other explanations. The UK in 2018? Yes – and Sweden, for far longer. Over the past several decades of hunting submarines in its waters, Stockholm has dealt with similar combinations of mysterious-incident-plus-disinformation-campaign. Other Western nations would do well to learn from the Swedes’ experience.

On Oct. 16, 2014, news broke that Sweden’s signals intelligence agency, the National Defence Radio Establishment, had intercepted traffic on a Russian emergency channel. The following day, a resident of the Stockholm archipelago contacted the Swedish Armed Forces, saying he had seen what looked like a submarine. The armed forces immediately dispatched its sub-hunting flotilla and several other vessels. Later that evening, the signals intelligence agency intercepted encrypted Russian radio traffic, tracing its source to an area within the archipelago.

Three days later, the Swedes still hadn’t found the suspected submarine. The Russian defence ministry denied that any of its subs were in Swedish waters, suggesting instead via Russian news outlets that it must be a Dutch vessel. Other Russian news outlets submitted that the Swedish Navy had mistaken an animal for an underwater vessel. Then Russian media began referring to the suspected U-boat as Sweden’s “phantom submarine.” When the hunt was disbanded without a submarine having been found, the Russians seemed right.

“The Russian tactic is to put on a blank face and sow uncertainty among everyone who doesn’t have 100-percent-certain evidence,” explained retired Gen. Sverker Göranson. “And the Russians always try to make the other side look like idiots. As soon as the suggestion appeared that the detected sound might come from an animal, the Russians picked it up in order to ridicule us.

As Sweden’s chief of defense until 2015, Göranson had ultimate responsibility for the 2014 submarine hunt, and as a result became a particular target of Russian mockery. “Russian media found a video snippet of me in yellow rain boots dancing to an ABBA song that they showed over and over,” he recalled. “Their message to the Swedish public was, ‘the person in charge in your country is a clown whom you can’t trust.’ They were ridiculing those in charge at all levels.”

This pattern of denial and ridicule is familiar to the Swedish armed forces, which have for decades hunted suspected submarines near the 2,700-kilometer coastline surrounding the mainland and the island of Gotland. Hunting submarines is like documenting nerve gas attacks, but much harder. Submarines, especially the mini-submarines often used by the Russian Navy, can easily hide and escape in shallow archipelagic waters.

On Oct. 27, 1981, there was no denying that a Soviet sub was in Swedish territory; it had run aground in a military zone in the archipelago off the southern city of Karlskrona. As a standoff ensued between Stockholm and Moscow about what to do about the sub and its crew, the event grew into international news. But even with such an embarrassment on their hands, the Soviets conducted a brilliant disinformation campaign. The sub’s captain said the crew had lost their bearings after all their navigational instruments failed– but when tested by the Swedes, the instruments worked fine. “Anyone a bit critical to the official Swedish story could find a story that fitted their convictions,” said Joakim von Braun, an independent Swedish defense analyst who specializes in Russian intelligence and naval operations. “The Soviets offered had a real smorgasbord of rumors and disinformation.” Soon Swedish public opinion was divided about whether the submarine had intentionally or unintentionally ventured into a Swedish military zone.

The following year, the Swedish Navy failed to catch a suspected Soviet submarine off the coast of Stockholm. “We found traces of tracks on the seabed, but the Soviets said they didn’t have any submarines that left such marks,” noted retired Commodore Nils-Ove Jansson, who commanded several submarine hunts in the 1980s and subsequently served as deputy director of the country’s military intelligence agency. “Then they said it must be a NATO submarine. Their alternative explanations created doubt among the Swedish public and led to a situation where many Swedes thought we were making up the submarine hunts in order to get more money.”

Such messages work on multiple levels. “At one level the Russians send the message saying, ‘Look at what we can do,’ but then they deny it,” said the Royal Navy’s Vice Adm. Sir Anthony Dymock, a former UK Permanent Military Representative to NATO.


To this day, the Swedish public remains divided as to whether the submarine intrusions actually took place. One active group of doubters, the Medbogargruppen, advances the idea that the intrusions exist only in Swedish officers’ imagination.

This all echoes what the UK has experienced since Sergey and Yulia Skripal were poisoned last month. Russian government representatives have suggested that the nerve gas came from Sweden, the Czech Republic, or even Britain’s own military lab. Though social media is new, information warfare most certainly is not. “What we’re seeing today, with trolling of decision-makers, is just a repetition of what we [the Swedish armed forces] were subjected to,” Jansson said.

Indeed, the Swedes’ long experience with Salisbury-like combinations of attacks and disinformation campaigns has given them expertise that other countries can learn from. “Don’t respond to disinformation,” Göranson advises. “There’s no point in entering a communications war with the Russians. However, use every opportunity to prove the opposite of what they’re alleging.” Over a long career as an anti-submarine warfare officer, Jansson has come to the same conclusion. “Lie low, don’t respond to provocations. And ask yourself who benefits from the disinformation they’re spreading.”

During the 2014 hunt, Göranson tested his response concept by showing pieces of evidence, including images, at press conferences. “It’s more effective than just talking, and it creates credibility,” he said. There is, however, the risk that an initial piece of evidence turns out to be incorrect – as happened during that hunt. Nevertheless, Göranson argues that countering disinformation not with counter-propaganda but with regular factual updates is crucial.

He also suggests that journalists may need training in how to read military information, and that targeted countries should nip information about plainly false events in the bud. Several years ago, Russian-leaning Twitter accounts began circulating news about a Russian naval exercise near Swedish waters. General-assignment reporters picked up the news; naval experts commented. In short order the exercise became big news. But the Swedish armed forces didn’t react to the provocative exercise. That’s because there was no exercise—but the Swedish military’s silence created space for non-experts to define the story. “We ended up yielding the space to self-appointed experts who were clearly mistaken,” Göranson said.

The UK won’t be the last Western country to join Sweden in the targeted-by-Russian-hybrid-warfare club, which underscores a final lesson learned by Göranson: always show a united front. During the 2014 hunt, he always gave joint statements with Prime Minister Stefan Löfven and Defense Minister Peter Hultqvist. One leader can be dismissed as a clown, but there’s force in unity.
#14903080
Why did the British government not just wait till the investigation was finished before accusing anybody? What could possible be the reason for this?


Good question. They could have just quietly investigated while putting out strong but subtle hints. Quite possibly it is both opportunistic and incompetent as Atlantis says.

Regarding Scottish independence, it may be a fair cause but do you seriously think Russia promotes it for its love for you? Obviously they push it for the same reason they push to break up the eu. To weaken the West in their view. This is the same reason @Atlantis and all enemies or the uk support the idea.

You can have more than one reason for the same thing and you can also be wrong on those reasons. You seem to be very far left and see it as a left wing cause, for example.
#14903091
If they really believed Russia did it i think they would have waited for evidence. They probably know more about what happened from MI5/MI6 and are just using it for their own party's ends as usual.
layman wrote:Regarding Scottish independence, it may be a fair cause but do you seriously think Russia promotes it for its love for you? Obviously they push it for the same reason they push to break up the eu. To weaken the West in their view. This is the same reason @Atlantis and all enemies or the uk support the idea.

You can have more than one reason for the same thing and you can also be wrong on those reasons. You seem to be very far left and see it as a left wing cause, for example.

Yes, i'm sure you're right about Russia wanting to weaken the U.K but putting Atlantis in the same box is ridiculous. Maybe he thinks it would be good for an independent Scotland to be in EU, where it's population want to be.
layman wrote:You can have more than one reason for the same thing and you can also be wrong on those reasons. You seem to be very far left and see it as a left wing cause, for example.

I don't think i'm "very far left" by i guess that depends on your point of view. I would be happy for us to be a small country like Norway or Denmark.

Scotland's politics are now very different to England's so the union is only working for England because they are in control. Like Peter Mullen said, "I've got nothing against the English people but I want a neighbor, not a master".
#14903097
@Seeker8 i am not sure I understand your first comment. Do you think the British government believes it wasn’t Russia ? Do you think it was a planned false flag like Russia is now suggesting. I have to say Russia’s reaction just doesn’t seem like an innocent to me but then the whole thing doesn’t especially “add up”. As either a nato false flag or a Russian message, it looks ameturish.

Ps where in Scotland are you from? If you are just a social democrat then that makes much more sense. I would be happy to debate independence elsewhere but best we don’t go further off topic.
#14903109
It wouldn't surprise me that much if it was a planned false flag. I don't know why people find this so hard to believe if you look at history. But I'm not saying that's what i think is most likely. I'm saying i think they were blaming Russia for some kind of advantage for their party. Accusing someone before the investigation is complete tells me they're up to something shady.

It said on TV there was some meeting in the hague today and Putin was expected to call for action against the U.K. Don't know what time it is though.

I'm from Renfrewshire. Yea, let's just forget Scottish independence just now, the next referendum will probably be soon and that's all we'll hear about. :lol:
#14903157
foxdemon wrote:Here’s a tale from Sweden.

@Prosthetic Conscience might want to read it also.

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2018/04/how-deal-russian-information-warfare-ask-sweden/147154/?oref=d-river



I have often quoted the post UKRAINIAN 'Coup de tete ' visit by President OBAMA to BERLIN, in which he launched the usual invective against RUSSIA.

Remember this, the American government, were under pressure from the Neo-Cons to feed the armament's industrial corporations with 100x's $ BILLIONS of US taxpayers money that then feeds into the executives & shareholders pockets.

That was one side of the dual purpose visit to BERLIN, the other, was to get the EU countries to boost their 'defence' spending, again, to the benefit of America.

Then, no sooner had he returned to America than Michael FALLON(Defence Secretary) & Phil HAMMOND(Chancellor) waved the 'magic wand' with an order for TWO Capital ships(carriers)at a cost of £50 BILLION> on to our National Debt.

Now, just consider how they can produce that amount of money, plus £39+2.4 BILLION for BREXIT 'transition' arrangements that TAXPAYERS will have to repay, when 'austerity' is the order of the day-period, for many millions of UK citizens?

You see how the money, the power & the lies are in ready supply with the TORIES save when it comes to other forms of public spending.

Back on topic, you can NEVER trust a 'TORY' government, all they think of are power to control, money, to be spent on defence, but not people in need, or public services & of course the LIES such as protesting that there is no 'magic money tree' when money is needed.

That readiness NEVER to tell the truth runs deep in the 'TORY' veins.
#14903231
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:In what way? The father is not someone who'd want Russian diplomats to have access to him without his specific permission, given the way they locked him up a few years ago. And what's the point of consular access to someone in a coma? For the daughter, now that she's out of a coma, that's a decision for her to make. If she's asked for a consul, then access should be given. Is there a report that she's asked for that?

Have you evidence they refused access to the family? From what I've heard, there are no other family members in the UK, and none have traveled there to see them in their coma.


Yes, the embassy has repeatedly demanded access to the Skripals, as is their right. A family member of the Skripals has even appeared on British TV saying that she would like to visit them in hospital.

Whether a person is in coma or not, the embassy of that person's country has the right to access. Anyways, I think you have the wrong ideas about the Skripals. Witnesses who know the father have said that he had good contacts at the Russian embassy. There has even been speculation about him wanting to move back to Russia.

skinster wrote:I am awaiting for the same from a few people here who were bitching at me because I repeatedly demanded evidence that Russia was responsible. :excited:


Theresa May's government is wading ankle deep in shit ever since they got into that Brexit mess. I guess they are so much used to lying that they don't know the difference between truth and lies.

Well, to be honest, the deception has "past form" with the British government. And it didn't start with the illegal wars in Iraq, Libya and Syria either.

Seeker8 wrote:It said on TV there was some meeting in the hague today and Putin was expected to call for action against the U.K. Don't know what time it is though.


There was a meeting at the OPCW today in which the Russian delegation proposed a joint investigation into the Skripal poisoning. The UK rejected the proposal. It seems like the Brits want to use this for stirring up hostility while keeping the truth form coming out. Next, the Russians will lodge a complaint against the UK at the UN security council.

I'm from Renfrewshire. Yea, let's just forget Scottish independence just now, the next referendum will probably be soon and that's all we'll hear about. :lol:


I wouldn't blame you for wanting to get rid of British rule. It must be hell to be tied to those warmongers and liars at Westminster. It's bad enough being allied with them in Nato. @layman said that he would move to Scotland if you got independence. Good choice! :)

layman wrote:I have to say Russia’s reaction just doesn’t seem like an innocent to me ...

How do you react if somebody launches a totally absurd accusation against you without any evidence? I would react exactly like the Russians by ridiculing the British. Moreover, Putin has been the target of so much hostile propaganda that it is not reasonable to expect him to take this serious.

Even if you don't consider him to be a saint, nobody can deny that the Western media deliberately paints a negative image of Putin, even though he appears to be a lot more coherent and credible than many Western leaders.

The British attitude in this case has been atrociously arrogant. How can you expect the Russians to prove that they didn't do it? It is not possible to prove that they didn't do something. If the UK government at least provided evidence, then it would be possible to judge on the basis of that evidence. But to accuse somebody without evidence is just incredibly rude and deserves all the scorn the Russians can pour onto it.

layman wrote:Regarding Scottish independence, it may be a fair cause but do you seriously think Russia promotes it for its love for you? Obviously they push it for the same reason they push to break up the eu. To weaken the West in their view. This is the same reason ...


This makes me so mad. It is the UK, and not Russia, which has tried to divide and/or break up the EU for decades. Russia wants to weaken the West because Western Neocons are trying to expand Nato Eastward and because they want to break up the Russian Federation. Putin has every reason to be suspicious of the West. Western leaders have always lied to the Russians.

Putin never wanted to break up the EU. On the contrary, he has tried to form a common economic area between the EU and Russia before the Yanks threw a spanner into the works by inciting the civil war in Ukraine. Russia is not the enemy, the enemy is Anglo imperialism!
#14903292
@Atlantis you actually didn’t contradict me there so why mad?

You don’t speak for Europe though, despite trying to be the self appointed spokesman. There is a lot of distrust of Russia and it’s telling how all of it’s neighhours feel. Is Sweden trying to attack them? Why does Scandinavia get mercilessly bullied. Germany has business interests which easily explains its more conciliatory attitude and others simply see themselves are unthreateneded.

You have a long standing wish of seeing Britain become an enemy and Russia a friend. You will seek out any piece of information to confirm that bias.

@skinster noone is this thread attacked you for seeking evidence. I know that because I have been here. Grow up.
#14903309
Here is a long read

Update to briefing note ‘Doubts about Novichoks’

In short:

- There has never been a chemical weapons program under the name of Novichok in Russia.

- In 2007, after 12 years of working in the US, Vil Mirzayanov, an anti-Russian activist, published a book with a series of nerve agents (A-230, A-232, A-234, A-242 and A-262) under the name of Novichoks.

- There is no evidence that the A-230 series of nerve agents was ever synthesized in Russia (or the SU).

- The A-230 type nerve agents are different from the GV nerve agents which were developed in the SU, Czechoslovakia, the US, etc.

- The GV nerve agents are mentioned in Russian technical literature and a sample was sold on the black market to poison a businessman in the early 1990s.

- Of the A-230 (Novichok) series, only the A-234 nerve agent was ever entered into a public database. The A-234 was synthesized by a researcher in the US Army’s Edgewood Chemical and Biological Center before 1998. The record was later deleted.

- In 2008, the US/UK tried to suppress discussion about the A-230 (Novichok) nerve agents.

- The UK government has not revealed the identity of the compound detected in Salisbury, but the Russian ambassador has stated that the Foreign Secretary told him that the compound detected was A-234.


Looks like the UK has a lot of explaining to do.

@layman, the UK has always tried to split Europe ("prevent a hegemon") and stop EU integration. There is also the stated aim to destroy the EU at the center of the Brexit and Trump camp. There no point in denying it. It is public knowledge. Russia has never tried to destroy the EU. The aim of the Skripal incidence is to drive a wedge between Europe and Russia. I'm not a fan of Trump, but if and when he gets out from under the Russiagate affair he is going to kick British arse to befriend Putin. I hope that will be after Brexit has become irreversible.


Image


:lol:
#14903324
Atlantis wrote:Yes, the embassy has repeatedly demanded access to the Skripals, as is their right. A family member of the Skripals has even appeared on British TV saying that she would like to visit them in hospital.

Whether a person is in coma or not, the embassy of that person's country has the right to access.

She may have said she'd like to visit them. Did she say she'd been refused access?

No, embassies do not have right of access to all their citizens. If a person is in in their hotel room, the embassy cannot demand access. It's up to the person. And as I said, if they're in a coma, what would be the point of consular access? You seem to be confusing the right of a person to demand access to consular services with an attempt by Russian diplomats to muddy the waters. What did you think they'd do - stand next to an ICU bed and say "you've never met me, but I'm from the government that imprisoned you/your father - good luck in coming out of the coma"?
#14903331
Russia demanding access to the victims is blatant trolling.

I think Russia rightly predicted how badly this would be handled and how to exploit it. Boris has played right into the trap like the amateur he is. A real liability. I actually always assumed Teresa may gave him that position to expose him and therefore kill his future chances as pm. A dangerous game perhaps but maybe the lesser of two evils. Foreign secretary is mostly a toothless job anyway.
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