UK has no proof of Russia’s role in Skripal poisoning - Page 18 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14914603
Iran urges sides to cooperate on Salisbury attack

by Fisher Staff Writer — May 13, 2018

Iranian Ambassador to the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) Alireza Jahangiri read out a joint statement during an extraordinary meeting of the OPCW Executive Council, on behalf of Russia, China, Pakistan, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.

The Iranian envoy called on the two sides involved in the dispute over the last month’s poisoning of a former Russian spy in southwest England to settle the issue through cooperation and constructive talks in a bid to move out of an impasse.

“Politicizing any issues within the framework of the Chemical Weapons Convention will benefit none of the Member States, and will threaten the credibility of the OPCW,” Jahangiri stressed.

Jahangiri further criticized the participating sides at the meeting for not having said anything about Iran as a main victim of chemical weapons as well as a victim of international silence.

During the tense meeting held on Wed. in The Hague, the British representatives slammed Russia’s proposal for contributing to an OPCW investigation into the Salisbury poisoning, accusing Russia of being responsible for the attack.

The Russian authorities, for their parts, said that UK and France have refused to answer the questions of Russian embassy in London and have barred the consulate’s access to Russian nationals. Russia also announced its readiness to cooperate with the OPCW probe.

Russia lost a vote at the meeting by 15-6 with 17 OPCW member states abstaining. The country gained support from China, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Algeria and Iran.

The meeting wrapped up without any conclusion due to Iran and Russia’s objection to the draft proposal by the Western side.


As I have said all along, the UK (US, France) is trying to show that Russia still has secret chemical weapons after it destroyed its known stockpiles last year so that the US won't have to destroy its own chemical weapons stockpile.

That is the only reason to use the organophosphate A-234 (aka Novijoke) in Salisbury. That also means that the UK is responsible for the poisoning, since Russia would not want to reveal its secret weapons, assuming that it has such weapons.

This is also corroborated by the bogus claim of the OPCW head according to which the quantity of A-234 used in Salisbury was between 50 and 100 g, which has already been denied by OPCW experts. He was trying to say that the poison used in Salisbury was a "chemical weapon" and not a sample produced in a laboratory for testing. The OPCW leadership has thus revealed that it is a Western puppet and not a bona fide representative of all OPCW members.

The US deliberately undermines multilateral institutions including the UN, the OPCW, FIFA, the WTO and international law. Nobody can pretend that this won't be detrimental to all of us.
#14914629
Actually, you said at the start you fidng think it was the British but that they were being opportunistic. You also claimed the uk wouldn’t hand over samples to the international authorities because of deceit. You went on to back a Russian claim that the Swiss found the uk tampered with samples. Now you have decided the whole organisation is corrupt and the uk is holding the victims hostage.

Nothing, anywhere, seems conclusive in the slightest for any side. No one likes an open ending though so let’s all keep this up!
#14915231
But "open ending" is all we ever get when it comes to russia.

The same scheme repeats: big accusations and then as final state always either "no proof" or "proven wrong". Since many years now.

Over and over again.

One of the first such events was that airplane shot down over Ukraine many years ago. And in that case whoever shot that plane down clearly made an error in judgement anyway, since there was absolutely nothing either side would gain from downing a civilian airplane, so I dont get the fuss in the first place. Yet politicians and journalists keep claiming that they know for certain it was east Ukraine / the russians. Sure, ok. Then just prove it already. Before you claim such a thing. Then you can say such things all day long without looking stupid.

Or Russiagate. Basically disproven. Its very unlikely that it was the russians; it was most likely an inside job of a whistleblower. Also what got revealed was simply facts. So its a crime now to reveal actual hard facts during an election process ?

Or the Assad gas attacks, which are sometimes blamed on the russians, too - now Assad has been accused three times and two times they attacked him, but the outcomes have been so far:

1. Definitely a false flag by the freedom fighters / terrorist / rebels / "whatever you want to call nonsyrians paid by other countries to enter Syria and attack Assad".

2. Unconclusive. I think the rebels did those attack as well and just learned how to do this without exposing themselves als the culprits.

3. All fake, the gas attack didnt even actually happen. It was all just made up by the "white helmets", and there have been very reliable reports early about this, from known neutral sources. Which everyone (who bothered informing him- or herself) knew even before the USA, UK and France had attacked, and its extremely unlikely that they didnt knew as well when they attacked. Macron even provided extremely laughable "absolute proof" that was all made up, from people who had not even visited Syria at all and offered less "proof" than the obviously faked movies and images provided by the "white helmets".

And yet my (german) government officially stated that Assad did gas attacks multiple times and that they would be sure of it. Which is simply an outright lie, no such thing has been proven at all, ever. Plus why the heck would Assad need to make such an attack, he has enough conventional weapons. Plus of course germany helped Saddam Husseins gas attack on Iran (and Kurds in his own country) and they never even said sorry for that one, either. They dont friggin admit the reality.

They also claimed officially that they knew for sure it was the Russians who have been behind the attack on Skripal. The damn official investigation has no idea who it was. Again my government outright lied. And it was obvious from the get go for many reasons.

They lie to our face, they lie knowing we know they lie, and they dont even say sorry when they get caught very quickly afterwards. And the mainstream media fully supports their lies and doesnt even report that they got caught and then they complain when they get called stuff like "luegenpresse" (lying press). What the heck ? This is all one big joke.

I recently saw a political comedians show from ten years ago. Man have that been super civilized times. It was policial comedians who actually provided political comedy, not the politicians themselves. And we didnt had nazis in the german parliament, at that point nobody could imagine they would return. I mean we had a small nazi party in the german east but that one never was very relevant, they never had many votes.

I cant help but wonder if the current mainstream politicians and mainstream journalist actually want that we believe that russians are all evil and then we have a third world war followed by a nuclear winter and then mankind dies out. Is that actually their goal ? They seem to work really hard on that.
#14915349
layman wrote:Actually, you said at the start you fidng think it was the British but that they were being opportunistic. You also claimed the uk wouldn’t hand over samples to the international authorities because of deceit. You went on to back a Russian claim that the Swiss found the uk tampered with samples. Now you have decided the whole organisation is corrupt and the uk is holding the victims hostage.


I have said from the beginning that the UK's motives are related

a) to the destruction of Russian chemical weapons stockpiles and the US refusal to to the same,

b) to the building of an anti-Russian alliance in view of the Syria conflict.

I have had no reason to change that evaluation. Where I did change is that at first I believed that the UK only "opportunistically" used the incident, for example created by a 3rd party like anti-Putin oligarchs or Chechen Mafia, etc., while now it looks more likely that the UK is directly responsible. Like you, I at first refused to believe that the UK government is capable of such as thing; however, as things evolve it looks more and more like that the UK government is directly responsible.

The UK only asked for OPCW involvement in order to get diplomatic support from its allies. And when it did so, it did so only on a very narrow mandate that from the very beginning precluded any meaningful result.

Regarding the results from the Swiss lab, I was the first in this thread to post a summary from a German language article in the NZZ describing how the OPCW may have used BZ in a control example.

The UK is clearly holding the victims hostage so they don't spill the beans and the erroneous statement from the OPCW head clearly shows that he is a political puppet.

Thus, you are wrong on all accounts.
#14916555
"All this obviously leads to the elimination of personal judgment, which takes place as soon as the individual accepts public opinion as his own. When he expresses public opinion in his words and gestures, he no longer expresses himself, but his society, his group. To be sure, the individual always will express the group, more or less. But in this case he will express it totally and in response to a systematic operation.

Moreover, this impersonal public opinion, when produced by propaganda, is artificial. It corresponds to nothing authentic; yet is precisely this artificial opinion that the individual absorbs. He is filled with it; he no longer expresses his ideas, but those of his group, and with great fervor at that - it is a propaganda prerequisite that he should assert them with firmness and conviction. He absorbs the collective judgments, the creatures of propaganda; he absorbs them like the nourishment which they have, in fact become. he expounds them as his own. He takes a vigorous stand, begins to oppose others. He asserts himself at the very moment that he denies his own self without realizing it. When he recites his propaganda lesson and says that he is thinking for himself, when his eyes see nothing and his mouth only produces sounds previously stenciled into his brain, when he says that he is indeed expressing his own judgment - then he really demonstrates that he no longer thinks at all, ever, and that he does not exist as a person. When the propagandee tries to assert himself as a living reality, he demonstrates his total alienation most clearly; for he shows he can no longer even distinguish between himself and society. He is then perfectly integrated, he is the social group, there is nothing in him not of the group's opinion. He is nothing except what has propaganda has taught him. He is merely a channel that ingests the truths of propaganda and dispenses them with the conviction that is the result of his absence as a person. He cannot take a single step back to look at events under such conditions; there can be no distance of any kind between him and propaganda."
#14916598
@Sivad, group thinking or the belief in a national myth has always existed. Without it there can be no community, no nation. Thus, to a point it is normal. Asian collective type societies use this type of thinking even more than Western types of individualistic societies.

The problem in this case is that the "national narrative" was not arrived at by a collective effort, by popular culture or by a public discourse. It was defined by some sort of aloof British deep state behind the scenes to promote the aims of the empire. It was executed by the organs of the British state including the GCHQ, MI5, MI6, the DoD, the BBC, the Foreign and Home Offices, etc., and by a whole host of private contractors hired to wage a propaganda war and fix the enemy picture clearly in the people's mind.

The UK prides itself on being a democracy, yet when it comes to foreign policy, there is no democracy whatsoever. Basically, the-powers-that-be can do whatever they like without democratic oversight. When parliament defeated Cameron's decision to go to war in Syria, instead of accepting the democratic process, he started a secret propaganda war with the aim of creating the right conditions for going to war later.

One reason the Brits oppose the EU is because it introduces democratic transparency into inter-state relations (foreign affairs) and puts national governments under the scrutiny of a common court of justice.
#14916974
Having pulled off their propaganda coup against Russia, it is clear that the British will now try to bury the case below a cover of silence; until their next false flag operation, when they will brazenly lie to the public by pretending that the Russians poisoned the Skripals. The victims now have to be disappeared, preferably permanently, to keep the British government from embarrassment.


Case Is Being Pushed Down The Memory Hole With Libya And Aleppo

On the fourth of March, in the sleepy British cathedral town of Salisbury, an ex-spy named Sergei Skripal was poisoned by an assassin with the most deadly nerve agent known to man.

The Russian government was immediately blamed by a shocked and outraged world. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson assured the people of Great Britain that “There’s no doubt” that Moscow was responsible. In a large and sudden leap forward in cold war escalations, Russian diplomats were thrown out of countries all around the globe, including my own Australia, in a show of solidarity with the United Kingdom. It was the largest collective ejection of Russian diplomats in history.

Two months after his earth-shattering assassination, as the world stared spellbound at the weekend’s immensely popular PR spectacle of a royal wedding, Sergei Skripal was quietly discharged from the hospital he’d been staying at. The BBC reports that he is walking and approaching complete recovery.

Wait a second. Haven’t I seen this Python skit before?

So to recap, an ex-spy who had been retired and strategically irrelevant for years was reportedly poisoned by the Kremlin with Novichok, a scary Russian-sounding word which refers to a group of extremely deadly and fast-acting nerve agents that start shutting down the body’s muscles and respiratory system within 30 seconds to two minutes. Except in the case of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia it was several hours with a leisurely stroll, a meal, and beers in between.

The poison was placed in Yulia Skripal’s suitcase. Actually no, they got that wrong, it was the air vents in their car. Wait, no, that doesn’t work either. Maybe it was administered via weaponized miniature drone! Wait, no, it was the family’s car door handle. Actually, scratch that, it was the front door of the house. Definitely the front door of the house. We’re absolutely sure. Either that or Sergei Skripal’s favorite Russian cereal. They were given 100 grams of Novichok. Wait, no, that’s ridiculous, we retract that. Okay, maybe we have no idea what happened. Oh hey, their pets were completely unaffected by the poison. Let’s incinerate them.

Oh, and Johnson’s claim that the Porton Down laboratory had assured him “There’s no doubt” that Russia was behind the poisoning? Turns out that was just a bald-faced lie; Porton Down said no such thing and it was never its job to make such an assessment. Johnson lied, and both the Foreign Office and British mainstream media attempted to cover it up; tweets were deleted, transcripts were re-written, and narratives were given a good spin of historic revisionism by asserting that the UK government’s unequivocal insistence that the Kremlin poisoned the Skripals had been merely a “suggestion”.

And now both Sergei and Yulia Skripal, alleged victims of a poisoning by highly trained assassins using the deadliest nerve agent ever created, are doing fine. But you’re still supposed to fear and hate Russia. Just don’t think too hard about it or remember too much.

Remember Aleppo? I wouldn’t blame you if you didn’t; corporate media outlets hardly ever talk about it anymore. It’s almost like they want us to forget the horror stories they told us about how the city that had been occupied by good, noble freedom fighters was about to be taken by an army of depraved psychopaths who wanted to rape women, burn children alive, and shoot civilians in their homes. Back at the tail end of 2016, though, it was all you ever heard about. The “fall of Aleppo”, they called it. If the west didn’t intervene to stop Damascus and Moscow from retaking East Aleppo from the good-hearted rebels, everyone there would be raped, tortured, and butchered by the soulless army of the Syrian government.

Well, Moscow and Damascus did recapture East Aleppo, and it turns out that everything we were told about it was a lie. The atrocities the Syrian Arab Army were accused of intending to commit proved to be completely unfounded, those “freedom fighters” were predominantly cruel Al Qaeda affiliates, and the city is now thriving and bustling with busy marketplaces. But after all the constant apocalyptic alarmism, the mass media outlets who’d been warning of all the horrific crimes against humanity which would surely be committed after the “fall of Aleppo” forgot all about the city once they were proven completely wrong about everything.

Aleppo was pushed down the memory hole. It’s a non-thing now. Turns out Gary Johnson was ahead of the curve.

How about Libya? Remember Libya? Libya’s that country that got pushed down the memory hole the second the western empire got the regime change it was after. Before Muammar Gaddafi was mutilated in the streets to the sadistic cackles of Hillary Clinton, we were all told with increasing urgency that humanitarian interventionism was needed because Gaddafi’s troops are doing evil things like taking Viagra to help them commit mass rapes against Libyan civilians. Now Gaddafi is dead, we know that both the case for humanitarian interventionism and the Viagra-for-rape stories were lies, and Libya is a humanitarian disaster with an open slave trade after western interventionism created a failed state.

Where are all those cries for humanitarian interventionism in Libya now? Now that the nation is infinitely worse off than it was under Gaddafi?

Doesn’t matter. Memory hole.

Time and time again, we’re fed these deceitful narratives to manufacture support for the agendas of the western war machine, and when the truth begins to surface that we were lied to once again, the news churn moves on and we’re distracted with something else as the old narrative is shuffled back beyond the reach of memory. Maybe a year or two later we wonder to ourselves “I wonder what ever happened with that major news story? I should google it,” but nothing comes up and most of us shrug and move on.

And now a very suspicious and possibly Christopher Steele-related silence has descended on the matter of the Skripals, to the point where Sergei himself can walk out of the hospital and barely cause a blip in the news, and nobody can talk to either of them but everyone pretends that’s perfectly normal. This case which points very clearly to a mountain of lies and cover-ups by the British government and its affiliates is now being shuffled out of the news cycle and replaced with vapid nonsense about Meghan’s dress and Trump’s latest obnoxious tweet.

But we won’t let them forget. We won’t let the world forget that these steadily increasing imperialist escalations against Russia and its allies were given a hefty bump by lies about what happened in Salisbury. There are plenty of people on alternative media like me who will keep pointing at that big dark hole of unanswered questions and yelling “Hey! What about all those lies you guys told us about the Skripals?

This one isn’t going down the memory hole, guys. There are some turds that just won’t flush. This one’s staying around forever. We’ll keep reminding everyone. We won’t let anyone forget.



That memory hole is getting pretty cramped. Soon it'll flow over and drench Westminster ankle deep in shit. Enjoy the stench!
#14917267
The only way to solve this issue will be for the Russians to take some British hostages in Moscow and then arrange for an exchange of hostages in some neutral place like Vienna. I'm sure Sergei would appreciate that for old times sake :lol:

Moscow Not Ruling Out UK Authorities Holding Skripals Against Their Will

Former Russian intelligence officer Sergei Skripal was discharged from a Salisbury hospital on May 18, however, since then there has been no information on his subsequent fate.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova stated that there was a possibility that Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were being held by the UK authorities against their will.

"For almost two months, Russia has not been given access to Russian citizens — it's a fact. The second fact is that Russian citizens, in one way or another, are being kept in the UK from contacts, possibly by force, in an unknown place and in an unknown state," she said.

The spokeswoman did not rule out that the Skripals were also kept from contacts with the media.

"We have no idea about their condition. Nothing prevented London from giving Russian representatives access to Russian citizens," Zakharova noted.

Sergei Skripal was discharged from the hospital, where he was undergoing medical treatment after an alleged poisoning, on May 18. His daughter Yulia left the hospital in the British city of Salisbury in mid April. Nevertheless, the Russian Foreign Ministry had not been given an opportunity to talk to the Skripals, especially given the fact that Yulia Skripal is a Russian national.

The ex-colonel of the GRU, Russian military intelligence, Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were found in the UK Salisbury on March 4 after allegedly being exposed to toxic agent. Britain claimed that Moscow was behind the incident and expelled 23 Russian diplomats as a retaliation. However, no substantial proof of Moscow's involvement has been presented.

Moscow categorically refutes the UK's allegations, with Kremlin calling Britain's hostile steps a provocation that was initiated in order to trigger a Russophobic wave in the international community.
#14919365
TV reporter had to cut off British Defense Secretary Gavin Williamson who is unable to reply to simple question. One almost has to feel sorry for the guy. He just kept on repeating the same mantra like an audio recording stuck in the same track. These people just learn their role by heart without understanding what it means. Like bots, they are literally incapable of defending their narrative by arguments.

One has to wonder, is there intelligent life at Westminster?

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