UK has no proof of Russia’s role in Skripal poisoning - Page 16 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14911137
It's obviously a manufactured pretense for a Western containment effort against Russia. The West wants to diminish Russia's economic growth and political influence by obstructing Russia from forming strategic diplomatic and economic partnerships through the use of international sanctions. The West and the US in particular want hegemonic dominance over Eastern Europe and Central Asia and Putin is in the way. Western markets want unfettered access to those regions and they don't want competition or interference of any kind. That what's driving all of this anti-Russia hype.
#14911143
I think Russian intervention in Syria, causing the US and its allies to lose their disgusting war on Syria, has a lot to do with this too.

Atlantis, the Guardian has been warmongering dogshit for years. Put it in the bin.




Prosthetic Conscience wrote:It's quite hilarious, seeing the guys who think they're being cool kids by railing against the "deep state", desperately repeating the party line from the Russian state, run by the guy who has 'KGB' all the way through him like a stick of rock. It's even more hilarious seeing them think they've made some kind of point, rather than just continuing their mental masturbation of "the obvious culprit can't possibly be the culprit - it must be someone that only really deep thinkers like me can see who has fooled the sheeple into using logic, history and evidence rather than my brilliant repetition of state TV".


What evidence is that you speak of? Care to post it? If the obvious culprit is as obvious as you claim, surely we would be able to prove this right now, right? Or you could just trust corporate media and laughably think you have any argument at all.
#14911261
Sivad wrote:It's obviously a manufactured pretense for a Western containment effort against Russia. The West wants to diminish Russia's economic growth and political influence by obstructing Russia from forming strategic diplomatic and economic partnerships through the use of international sanctions.


True, they believed they destroyed the Soviet Union and now want to use the same strategy to destroy the Russian Federation. Vil Mirzayanov, who is the only source for the existence of Novichoks, wants to reduce Russia to the district of Moscow. Most of the rest is to become Tatarstan under his own leadership. :lol: Just the man to the liking of Western Neocons.

The problem is that the West didn't destroy the SU. That's a myth perpetuated in the West. The Soviet leadership dissolved the SU as a result of detente and rapprochement not as a result of the arms race. And Putin will not repeat the mistake made by Gorbachev. Putin has red lines too. Putin's red lines are in Syria and in Ukraine. The Neocons are now playing with nuclear holocaust by testing Putin's red lines.

skinster wrote:Atlantis, the Guardian has been warmongering dogshit for years. Put it in the bin.


Is that really fair? The Guardian has done some good research on the tax havens and on Snowden (not touched by other British media), on British involvement with Islamist radicals, in Libya, etc. But something must have changed with the Salisbury incident. It's as if they changed into warmongers overnight. Anyways, I have cancelled my subscription, and so should everybody else. Down with the warmongers.

I think Russian intervention in Syria, causing the US and its allies to lose their disgusting war on Syria, has a lot to do with this too.


The Western imperialists are losing it because they have lost the narrative. Iraq was the beginning of the end. The empire needs a credible narrative to perpetrate its aggression. Just like Gilgamesh needed a narrative to slay Humbaba. The Narrative is no longer credible. The king's new clothes show him for what he really is - a disgusting little creep.

The deception factory inherited from the British empire has lost it. Anglosphere cultural hegemony no longer cuts it.
#14911297
Ahmet Uzumcu, director general of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons wrote:As much as 100 grams of nerve agent may have been used in the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

It gets sillier.

According to Leonid Rink, the Soviet chemist who purportedly invented the poison, 100g of Novichok nerve agent would have killed Skripal and the entire town he lives in.

It, whatever 'it' is, didn't.


:lol:
#14911303
ingliz wrote:It gets sillier.

According to Leonid Rink, the Soviet chemist who purportedly invented the poison, 100g of Novichok nerve agent would have killed Skripal and the entire town he lives in.

:lol:


The Guardian articles show why the UK dropped from the 18th to the 40th position in the press freedom index. Another year of T. May's government and the UK will be at 3rd World level.

‘In an interview with the New York Times, Üzümcü said he had been told that about 50-100g of the nerve agent was thought to have been used in the attack in Salisbury.’

And

‘He said: “For research activities or protection you would need, for instance, five to 10 grams or so, but even in Salisbury it looks like they may have used more than that, without knowing the exact quantity, I am told it may be 50, 100 grams or so, which goes beyond research activities for protection.”’


In other words, the OPCW chief relates what he has been told (by the British?). The Guardian, however, makes this sound as if it is his own assessment.

“One thing, perhaps, which is important to note is that the nerve agent seems to bevery persistent,” Üzümcü said. “It’s not affected by weather conditions. That explains, actually, that they were able to identify it after a considerable time lapse. We understand it was also of high purity.”


He is speculating about what "seems to be," hence he doesn't know a thing. Moreover, it is in direct contradictions to the claims of Vil Mirzayanov, who is considered in the West to be the "inventor" of the Novichoks. Mirzayanov said that the Novichoks are very volatile and are easily washed off by rain, "only an idiot would use Novichoks in the humid weather of the UK."

The MSM has again changed its story to explain away inconsistencies in the story.

In the former dictatorships in Eastern Europe, people became very skillful at reading between the lines because they knew that the official media were lying. Authors learned how to write texts that would pass censorship while conveying the real message between the lines. In the West we now have to learn that skill too.

A close reading of the Guardian article shows the contradictions in the article. Perhaps the Guardian journalists have already started to convey their meaning between the lines because they are not allow to write the truth.

PS: Even 100g of a substance isn't a chemical weapon. It's a laboratory sample. Chemical weapons are produced by the ton to fill munitions with for battle field use. From social media comments, they obviously realized the contradiction in their previous story that a laboratory sample is not a chemical weapon. Now they are trying to tweak their story, but only manage to get entangled in further lies. How the hell does one smear 100 ml of a liquid onto a single door knob?
#14911366
I see PC doesn't have any evidence, still. Of course that was all to be expected since there's no way of proving this story either way, so far, but I just wanted to point out which liars like to lie. Again. For fun and for science. :)

Atlantis wrote:Is that really fair? The Guardian has done some good research on the tax havens and on Snowden (not touched by other British media), on British involvement with Islamist radicals, in Libya, etc. But something must have changed with the Salisbury incident. It's as if they changed into warmongers overnight. Anyways, I have cancelled my subscription, and so should everybody else. Down with the warmongers.


Yes it is fair. Things changed significantly at The Guardian after they released the Snowden files. As for Brit Islamists in Libya, I don't know what they reported on that, but if I remember correctly, M.Forte in his book Slouching Towards Sirte - which is excellent and infuriating btw - showed how The Guardian was one of many liberal media outlets that pushed NATO's war on Libya and perpetuated propaganda like Gaddafi was about to attack Benghazi and was sending rape-gangs or whatever, which was eventually confirmed to be pure bullshit...and on Syria, they've been atrocious and pro the moderate head-chopping rebels since before the beginning. They fired a number of excellent journalists too, Pilger, Fisk, J Cook, Nafeez Ahmed, for not conforming to their liberal interventionist agenda and anti-Corbyn positions, the latter of which I think they now allow journalists to speak positively on, on occasion, probably because they see the popular support Corbyn has.

On a related note, this article by Jonathan Cook on The Guardian's front-page news story about Russia, today, is worth reading:
2018: When Orwell’s 1984 stopped being fiction
#14911379
skinster wrote:On a related note, this article by Jonathan Cook on The Guardian's front-page news story about Russia, today, is worth reading:
2018: When Orwell’s 1984 stopped being fiction


I read Guardian headings the first thing every morning.

That is, I saw that article heading as the first thing I did this morning.

Interestingly, my interpretation of the article in concern was something in the opposite: My mind was steered to believe the British Government is being paranoid or, worse, is using the attack as a pretext to bash Russia in order to have some (personal?) gain.

I must be crazy.
#14911388
In other words, the OPCW chief relates what he has been told (by the British?).

It seems the OPCW have realised how ridiculous the '100g' claim was.

Today the OPCW says the organisation “would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used”.


:lol:
#14911400
Evidence, skinster? You've provided the evidence yourself. Your entire claim is based on acknowledging that everyone agrees this makes Russia look bad. But (and this is where your stance amazes me), you're so convinced that Putin is such a lovely guy that you have to say "but he'd never do that - so someone must be doing it to make him look bad. So you've plonked yourself in the camp of someone infamous for ordering killings, on the grounds that you think he's such a dreamboat that he'd never do such a horrible thing as order the killing of someone who is his known enemy (and not the enemy of the UK, the USA, or anyone else you feel like blaming today).

What you need to do, skinster, for your education, is take a good look at the absurd situation you've built yourself. You demand there's no reason to think Putin did this, while simultaneously thinking that it makes Putin look so guilty that the only explanation is that someone is framing him. Congratulations, you are a living embodiment of 'doublethink'. All for the sake of your love of Big Brother Putin.
#14911404
You have things backwards. It was you supporting the government line that Russia was responsible, and on this last page, it was you stating that Russia were the "obvious" culprit. I asked for evidence, which is what you're meant to provide, for the claims you make that seem so, you know, "obvious".

As for Putin, I'm well aware he's a capitalist pig and I refuse to take any shitty attempt at demanding evidence for your claims as me being a lover of X politician. It didn't work on me when people called for war on Iraq in 2003 and told me I loved Saddam because I didn't want war on Iraq and it certainly isn't going to work now, but thanks again for trying, it's always amusing for me to see how little people like you have, as arguments. So, I ignore this part and ask you again, where is your evidence that Russia is responsible for poisoning the Skripals?
#14911416
Skinster, as your argument relies on, the only country with a motive to kill Skripal is Russia. You just then say "but I can't believe Russia would do that, so someone must be framing them". You can't claim they're being made to look bad without admitting that everyone thinks the most likely explanation is that Russia did it. Otherwise, it would be an actual 'whodunit', rather than a stupid conspiracy theory looking for someone to blame other than Putin.
#14911491
ingliz wrote:It seems the OPCW have realised how ridiculous the '100g' claim was.

Today the OPCW says the organisation “would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used”.


:lol:


The Guardian has been forced to back-paddle vigorously:

Chemical weapons watchdog amends claim over Salisbury novichok OPCW corrects own director who had said 50-100g of nerve agent was used in spy poisoning

Within hours of the report, however, startled chemical weapons experts were challenging the figure, insisting a miscommunication had occurred. on Friday said the organisation “would not be able to estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used”.

It added: “The quantity should nonetheless probably be characterised in milligrams.”

It is not clear how Üzümcü made his error.

Maria Zakharova, the Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman, had reacted with incredulity to the the initial OPCW claim, saying: “Üzümcü has made a sensational statement that 50-100g of some substance was allegedly used to poison the Skripals.

“According to expert estimations, 50-100g of a toxic agent such as the one Great Britain has been referring to would be enough to poison not just two people but everyone in the surrounding neighbourhood. However, the two people in question managed to survive and recover, the British authorities say.”


The government is probably hoping that people will forget all about it once the story is out off the news for long enough. While the Guardian keeps on trying to construct a narrative to prove that the Russians did it after all, because the Guardian's reputation is at stake now.
#14911496
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:the only country with a motive to kill Skripal is Russia.


In simple bullet points for the last person to get the point:

- Russia is the only country that has absolutely no motive, because:

- Russia has no motive to build an anti-Russian alliance.

- Russia has no motive to disclose a secret chemical weapon it allegedly possess.

- The UK has very strong motive, means and opportunity.

- The UK also controls all information and the crime scene.

- The condemnation of Russia without a thread of evidence is entirely based on political pressure exercised by the UK on its Nato allies (there will be a price to pay).

Now please, PC, this is really simple to understand. We are at page 16 in this thread and it has been explained to you numerous times. If you are autistic, please say so. I'm sure the good folks of Pofo will be very understanding, but failing this, there is really no excuse for not understanding these simple facts.
#14911861
Uh, no, @skinster , that was me taking the piss out of you, Atlantis and others for using what Russian state TV tells you, and thinking that makes you 'deep thinkers' who can see beyond what others see:

It's even more hilarious seeing them think they've made some kind of point, rather than just continuing their mental masturbation of "the obvious culprit can't possibly be the culprit - it must be someone that only really deep thinkers like me can see who has fooled the sheeple into using logic, history and evidence rather than my brilliant repetition of state TV".

It's inside the quotes. That's what you are coming across as saying. You are the ones saying "the obvious culprit can't possibly be the culprit". You, for instance, agreed with Atlantis' comment about "duping the masses"; you two see yourselves as farsighted sages who aren't falling for the story in the west, because the RT version is just so much preferable to you.
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