[Rancid]

Those in your camp believe Russia is responsible for the poisoning. Okay, so you think that these guys are responsible for poisoning the Skripals despite there not being any evidence they even went onto the same road the Skripals live on, as well as the timeline showing that the Skripals were not at home when these guys were in Salisbury.

Well, there it is. They did it!

I'm in no one's camp, and no one is in my camp.

That said, there are two questions to answer.

Did these guys do it?
Is Russia behind it?

Both will be hard to answer since the UK and EU doesn't have access to these guys.

All that said, just for the lolz, I'll say, yes they did it. It would make for a great movie.

[Sivad]

Ex-Moscow scientist Vil Mirzayanov, who helped develop Novichok, said: “The substance was used when it was quite foggy — water droplets were in the air. It can be used only in dry air.

“In such weather conditions this substance could be used only by an idiot who knows nothing about the chemical characteristics of Novichok.

“If you drop it into water in some hours no trace will be left. It dissolves in water.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6817852/s ... -boshirov/

[ingliz]

I've been given prison sentences four times and spent twenty months in prison in total.

So you were stupid enough to get caught four times and stupidly think your stupidity is a badge of honour.

[skinster]

That said, there are two questions to answer.

Did these guys do it?
Is Russia behind it?

Both will be hard to answer since the UK and EU doesn't have access to these guys.

Both will also be hard to answer since there's no evidence for either, there's not even any evidence they went to the Skripal house / had any contact with them.

It would make for a great movie.

Indeed.

[Sivad]

So I ask this question again – and nobody so far has attempted to give me an answer. At what time did the Skripals touch their doorknob? Boshirov and Petrov arrived in Salisbury at 11.48 and could not have painted the doorknob before noon. The Skripals had left their house at 09.15, with their mobile phones switched off so they could not be geo-located. Their car was caught on CCTV on three cameras heading out of Salisbury to the North East. At 13.15 it was again caught on camera heading back in to the town centre from the North West.

How had the Skripals managed to get back to their home, and touch the door handle, in the hour between noon and 1pm, without being caught on any of the CCTV cameras that caught them going out and caught the Russian visitors so extensively? After this remarkably invisible journey, what time did they touch the door handle?

I am not going to begin to accept the guilt of Boshirov and Petrov until somebody answers that question. Dan Hodges? David Aaronovitch? Theresa May? Anybody?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

[anarchist23]

So you were stupid enough to get caught four times and stupidly think your stupidity is a badge of honour.

Yes. And you're so superior. lol
We all know that the Russian Clowns were just crisis actors being paid by MI6.
Is that what you're inferring. lol
WAKE UP



[center-img]http://i65.tinypic.com/10s7ul4.jpg[/center-img]

[anarchist23]

@Sivad

So I ask this question again – and nobody so far has attempted to give me an answer. At what time did the Skripals touch their doorknob? Boshirov and Petrov arrived in Salisbury at 11.48 and could not have painted the doorknob before noon. The Skripals had left their house at 09.15, with their mobile phones switched off so they could not be geo-located. Their car was caught on CCTV on three cameras heading out of Salisbury to the North East. At 13.15 it was again caught on camera heading back in to the town centre from the North West.
How had the Skripals managed to get back to their home, and touch the door handle, in the hour between noon and 1pm, without being caught on any of the CCTV cameras that caught them going out and caught the Russian visitors so extensively? After this remarkably invisible journey, what time did they touch the door handle?
I am not going to begin to accept the guilt of Boshirov and Petrov until somebody answers that question. Dan Hodges? David Aaronovitch? Theresa May? Anybody?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Your assuming that there were only the two Russian clowns. Possibly the fall guys.
Have you thought that there could be more than just two Russian agents.
Possibly six Russian agents, and possibly the Skripals were poisoned in Salisbury town.

[SpecialOlympian]

We don't say Russia didn't do it, we say there's no evidence to support that, and frankly this increasing YOU LOVE PUTIN / YOU'RE LIKE TRUMP FANS if you don't believe Saddam has WMDs, I mean, whatever the government tells us in its warmongering with a state that can hurt us, without evidence, ought to go fuck itself.

I don't love Putin, my actions are simply indistinguishable from those of a person who loves Putin.

[skinster]

What actions? Not believe things told to by my government without proof?

Your ilk only have ad-homs and shit memes to support your position, no evidence to prove what you claim.

[anarchist23]

Breaking News.
It seems that these two Russian clowns, when in their hotel room in East London were on line and claimed that there were only two genders. Unbelievably while in this hotel room with two prostitutes they tried to influence the mid term elections in the USA on Facebook.


[center-img]http://i67.tinypic.com/21o0eug.jpg[/center-img]

[skinster]

Breaking News.

No it's not. And if you're going to report stuff, share links.

[anarchist23]

Russia is mocking us. First the Salisbury attack, then information warfare. Time to wake up

Its ambitions are to disrupt Britain’s politics, so why are the government and security services seemingly in denial about the threat?
Have you been to Salisbury? Have you visited the cathedral, whose 123-metre spire the two men identified as Russian military intelligence assassins claimed was the reason for their visit on two consecutive days in March this year?
Have you walked the streets where Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov carried a bottle of military-grade nerve agent in search of their victim, Sergei Skripal?
More to the point, has the former head of the Foreign Office, Boris Johnson, or his successor, Jeremy Hunt? I ask because to have spent any time in Salisbury, as I did for a number of years earlier this decade, is to be chilled by every new unlikely twist in this still unfolding story. To know the key locations intimately. To have walked hundreds of times past the bench where Sergei and Yulia Skripal collapsed and were found, unconscious, frothing at the mouth; the Mill pub where they’d just been for a drink; the Queen Elizabeth Gardens, the last place visited by Dawn Sturgess before
Because to know Salisbury, a city that with its market square and medieval streets and Constable-inspiring views seems to be a distilled essence of all Englishness, is to grasp this story in a way that the government shows no sign of doing. Because it’s not just the tourist honey pot it at first seems – it’s also the heart of the British military establishment.
This is where for nearly a century the British army has prepared for war. It’s where it practised its battle skills for the First and Second World Wars, for the Falklands and the Gulf and Afghanistan – though there have been garrisons here for much, much longer. Drive across the strange, otherworldly expanses of Salisbury Plain and it’s not Stonehenge that will surprise you, it’s the tanks, the camouflage nets, the live ammo rounds. The Salisbury Plain training area, the biggest military base in Britain, is the cornerstone of our national security.

It’s not Stonehenge that will surprise you, it’s the tanks, the camouflage nets, the live ammo rounds
A base that recently got even bigger: in 2015, the Ministry of Defence decided to relocate thousands of troops stationed in Germany back to Britain by 2020. Because – klaxon – the threat to Britain was no longer judged to come from the east. Thousands of homes and two primary schools were built to accommodate them in Tidworth, Larkhill and Bulford camps. And the officers? The generals, colonels, brigadiers? They’re here, too. In the surrounding villages, in Salisbury itself, in the streets that Boshirov and Petrov walked down. These are their streets. This is where Dawn Sturgess died. On their watch. On Boris Johnson’s watch.
But was he? Watching, that is. Because increasingly, it seems like the government, the intelligence services and the army have been asleep at the wheel; still are asleep at the wheel. What happened last week didn’t involve tanks or live rounds. You could enact drills for months on Salisbury Plain and it wouldn’t prepare you for a scenario in which two serving Russian military intelligence officers entered your country undetected and carried out an attack with a proscribed chemical weapon in broad daylight just miles from Porton Down, your own secretive chemical weapons laboratory.
Salisbury is ‘not just the tourist honey pot it at first seems. It’s also the heart of the British military establishment.’ Photograph: merlinpf/Getty Images/iStockphoto
These intelligence officers, we now know, worked for the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency that, in July, special counsel Robert Mueller identified as responsible for hacking the emails of the Democratic National Committee, an act that went on to play a defining role in the US election. These same intelligence officers last week went on air and took what can only be described as the piss. Because having been identified by the British authorities after months of painstaking detective work, Boshirov and Petrov coolly spun a preposterous tale about their burning desire to see a cathedral, a cathedral that in two days they never managed to visit because there was “too much slush” on the ground.
Russia is trolling us. This is warfare disguised as political theatre. Information warfare. And we’re too flatfooted to recognise it, let alone have a coherent strategy of how to counter it. Last week’s triumphant breakthrough is this week’s humiliation.
Yesterday, the Times claimed MI6 believed that Michael Foot had been targeted by, and took money from, the Soviets. The merits of the claim aside, there is nothing new in Soviet/Russian ambitions to disrupt and corrupt our domestic politics, only in the tools at their disposal. Tools that we see being employed daily against British MPs and journalists and news organisations. The Russian embassy’s Twitter account has broken all received ideas about diplomacy and relentlessly trolls, lampoons and ridicules any person or institution daring to criticise Russian foreign policy, or report on it, including the Observer. It’s the digital equivalent of seeing officers in hazmat suits and gasmasks outside the house in which you used to live. It’s not a joke. And we shouldn’t treat it as one. It’s an attack on the institutions that safeguard our democratic freedoms.
Documents reveal Salisbury poisoning suspects' Russian defence ministry ties
The theatre of war has changed. We haven’t kept up. And the government is in denial. Or paralysis. Or both. In November last year, Boris Johnson told a parliamentary committee that there was “not a sausage” of evidence of Russian interference in UK elections. At the time, this statement seemed absurd. Now it seems… terrifying. Because if Johnson was telling the truth – never a given – then we should be truly alarmed. If the foreign secretary really had seen no evidence, was it because his department and those under his control, including MI6, weren’t looking? Because they were directed not to look? Or what?
Why hasn’t the government responded to the clear call made in July by Damian Collins, the chair of the parliamentary fake news inquiry. His committee’s interim report demanded that the government reveal what the security services are doing. Its response? Nothing. Silence. Not a sausage.
And it’s this that should alarm us more. Because last week, the New York Times published an article that delved into the reasons why the Kremlin targeted Sergei Skripal and why now. But it missed one possible answer: because it could. Just as it could inflict a devastating attack on the US election. And if you can carry out a chemical warfare attack undetected under the noses of Britain’s highest military ranking officers, what else can you do?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ime-to-act

[Prosthetic Conscience]

So I ask this question again – and nobody so far has attempted to give me an answer. At what time did the Skripals touch their doorknob? Boshirov and Petrov arrived in Salisbury at 11.48 and could not have painted the doorknob before noon. The Skripals had left their house at 09.15, with their mobile phones switched off so they could not be geo-located. Their car was caught on CCTV on three cameras heading out of Salisbury to the North East. At 13.15 it was again caught on camera heading back in to the town centre from the North West.

How had the Skripals managed to get back to their home, and touch the door handle, in the hour between noon and 1pm, without being caught on any of the CCTV cameras that caught them going out and caught the Russian visitors so extensively? After this remarkably invisible journey, what time did they touch the door handle?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Craig Murray is remarkably brain-damaged. CCTV photos do not necessarily capture traffic going in both directions. Hell, Churchill Way North, one of the roads mentioned, is a dual carriageway). But the police appeal for information did not say the car had been seen on TV; it said "we believe that at around 9.15am on Sunday, 4 March, Sergei's car may have been in the areas of London Road, Churchill Way North and Wilton Road. Then at around 1.30pm it was seen being driven down Devizes Road, towards the town centre." That doesn't specify CCTV, and it does qualify the 9.15 sightings with "we believe" and 'may', which may indicate a person who said they think they saw the car. And, yes, London Rd. goes to the north-east, and Devizes Rd from the north-west into the centre - passing very close to the Skripal house, so it's extremely likely they were indeed coming from the house at 1.30pm, in which case they would have used the door handle after the Russian pair would have gone there - either they were inside when the Russians were there and touched the door handle when coming out, or they came back some time between 12 and 1:30, and used it going in as well going out.

The London hotel room the pair used had traces of Novichok. That's evidence. The Novichok was found on the door handle. That's evidence. The Russian pair were photographed a few minutes' walk from the house around the time the poison was probably applied (symptoms appeared in the afternoon) with no believable reason for being there. Their story of why they spent a weekend in Britain, and spent hours getting to a city only to get turn back by an inch of slush in the streets, is laughably unbelievable.

Some here are suggesting it was Russian criminals, rather than the state, who sent the pair. If the attempted assassination had been by knife, gun, blunt instrument etc. that might be a believable scenario (you'd need a motive, but Skripal possibly harmed, or could harm, someone's criminal activities, I suppose). But it was by a poison that you need a highly specialised lab to make. Since the Russian state seems to have control of its own labs, it looks like it was organised high up. If not Putin himself, someone with power over both the lab and people it can send to do an assassination.

[SpecialOlympian]

I think the real tragedy is that these two fine Russian nationals will never have a third chance to finally see the beautiful Dick-On-Butthill cathedral, renowned the world over for its immense beauty.

How many more lives will Theresa May destroy in her mad quest to expel Russian diplomats?

[B0ycey]

But it was by a poison that you need a highly specialised lab to make. Since the Russian state seems to have control of its own labs, it looks like it was organised high up. If not Putin himself, someone with power over both the lab and people it can send to do an assassination.

Novichok was a Soviet invention. You are aware it collapsed right? Whether it is true that Russia no longer create biological weapons is a debate within itself. What isn't up for debate is that the black market is full of Soviet military equipment. Do you honestly think Novichok isn't within the confounds of such market because it is an chemical agent? Speculation of course but plausible nonetheless.

Nonetheless explain this. Why did Russia attempt to kill Skripal now and not when he was in jail? And also why did they use degraded potentless Novichok when Polonium is proven to do the job already?

If all you do is conclude that it is Russian government, then all you do is focus on it being the Russian government. But provide the proof if you know it to be true. Because even the British government suspect they are Russian agents, rather than can conclude such an assertion.

[skinster]

The London hotel room the pair used had traces of Novichok. That's evidence.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Novichok was a Soviet invention. You are aware it collapsed right? Whether it is true that Russia no longer create biological weapons is a debate within itself. What isn't up for debate is that the black market is full of Soviet military equipment. Do you honestly think Novichok isn't within the confounds of such market because it is an chemical agent? Speculation of course but plausible nonetheless.

Speculation; but we have the Russian pair with no plausible story on why they were in Salisbury, on the road to the Skripal house. There is no reasonable doubt that they planted the Novichok - it would be too much of a coincidence for them turn up on that day if they had nothing to do with it. Whether Novichok could still be lethal nearly 30 years after its manufacture seems doubtful. It seems more likely it was manufactured more recently, needing a high-tech lab.

Nonetheless explain this. Why did Russia attempt to kill Skripal now and not when he was in jail?

They got some of their own agents in exchange for him. They may have since decided they needed to frighten other Russians in the west about their reach, and that after Crimea and Ukraine, West-Russian relations were bad enough that more swaps weren't likely in the foreseeable future. Plus Putin hates traitors.

In return: why would anyone else try to kill Skripal?

And also why did they use degraded potentless Novichok when Polonium is proven to do the job already?

It was lethal enough to kill Dawn Sturgess, and potent enough to put the Skripals into comas, probably saved only by prompt medical attention. The Russian polonium was drunk; they may have decided they wouldn't be able to get Skripal to drink something they had access to, after the earlier incident.

If all you do is conclude that it is Russian government, then all you do is focus on it being the Russian government. But provide the proof if you know it to be true. Because even the British government suspect they are Russian agents, rather than can conclude such an assertion.

The Russian government has the only known motive, the killers were a Russian pair, using a poison that comes from the kind of lab that only governments run.

[skinster]

The British government have a motive too: to demonise Russia because of its support of a government (Syrian) the Brits were working to regime-change. To prime the British public into hating Russia before striking Syria/Russia after a planned chemical weapons false-flag in Idlib that they will blame the Syrian/Russian government for, I don't know.

Anyway, what happened to the Skripals? Do you care about the victims of this story?

[Prosthetic Conscience]

The British government have a motive too: to demonise Russia because of its support of a government (Syrian) the Brits were working to regime-change. To prime the British public into hating Russia before striking Syria/Russia after a planned chemical weapons false-flag in Idlib that they will blame the Syrian/Russian government for, I don't know.

Are you claiming this Russian pair are actually British agents? They've admitted to being in Salisbury on the day, with no explanation why they headed for the Skripal home. There has been, however, no gain for the British government in this. If you think Britain is about to strike Russia, you are hallucinating. Russia was largely hated before this incident, for their actions in Ukraine and Syria. And the polonium. And Georgia. And ...

Anyway, what happened to the Skripals? Do you care about the victims of this story?

They recovered. They are, understandably, keeping out of public view, seeing as they were nearly assassinated. So what happened to them is exactly what you would expect to happen to them after this incident.

[skinster]

Are you claiming this Russian pair are actually British agents?

If I was claiming they were actually British agents, I would say "those Russians are British agents".

They've admitted to being in Salisbury on the day, with no explanation why they headed for the Skripal home.

Being in Salisbury is not a crime. There is no evidence they were at the Skripal home or that they poisoned them. Still.

There has been, however, no gain for the British government in this.

At a minimum, it's a good distraction from the awful government in power, a distraction from Brexit negotiations, UK wars around the world, etc. So yes, the British government can gain from this by having the gullible focus on Russia instead of them.

If you think Britain is about to strike Russia, you are hallucinating.

I guess you forgot the British government has very much been involved in the war on Syria. I didn't mean a direct strike on Russia, but to attack Russians inside of Syria, since they're fighting on the side of the Syrians.

Russia was largely hated before this incident, for their actions in Ukraine and Syria.

Regime change or attempts of the same by the West happened in both of these countries.

They recovered. They are, understandably, keeping out of public view, seeing as they were nearly assassinated. So what happened to them is exactly what you would expect to happen to them after this incident.

Alternatively, they are being held hostage because it could be revealed that those responsible for their poisoning were people a little closer to home. They could of course be kept safe while also being allowed to speak to people beyond that one obviously-scripted interview the daughter gave, but apparently they can't even get in front of cameras, lest they eat their souls, or something equally as nonsensical as the claims put forth parroting the British government.