Groups, Individuals, and the Definitions of Rights and Equality - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14913109
[topic split from "Propaganda, Fact and Fake News" from here: viewtopic.php?p=14913092#p14913092 - Pol Circus mod]

QatzelOk wrote:Then all the mass media has to do is to convince you that "freedom and democracy are feasible"

That is all they have to do, but that's no easy task given I'm not jackass retarded.

and you will support destroying yet another resource-holding nation.


I support the destruction of any state that doesn't respect civil rights and democracy. I think every government on earth needs to be overthrown and replaced with democratic governance. Basically anything short of left-minarchism is tyranny.
#14913131
Sivad wrote:That is all they have to do, but that's no easy task given I'm not jackass retarded.



I support the destruction of any state that doesn't respect civil rights and democracy. I think every government on earth needs to be overthrown and replaced with democratic governance. Basically anything short of left-minarchism is tyranny.


Demanding everyone accept the Western liberal view of civil rights and democracy is also tyranny. I only support this view to the citizens freely choose their government and they are free to leave. Anymore is tyranny.
#14913200
Godstud wrote:Equality = Tyranny, to One Degree. :knife:


Only because of the liberal globalists definition of equality. You don’t understand equality because you don’t really value the individual. Your view of the ‘groups’ who are victims is incompatible with a belief in equality.
I don’t expect you to understand this.
#14913317
Sivad wrote:I support the destruction of any state that doesn't respect civil rights and democracy. I think every government on earth needs to be overthrown and replaced with democratic governance. Basically anything short of left-minarchism is tyranny.

Then you are terror-minded. Your above-quote reads like something that the Islamic State would have written: "We support the destruction of any state that doesn't respect the Quran and Islamic principles."

With terrorist ideologies like yours and ISIS, other cultures aren't allowed the freedom to come up with their own ideas of good governance.

I'm not jackass retarded.

You haven't provided convincing sources for any of your claims including this one.
#14913350
One degree wrote:I don’t expect you to understand this.
No, I don't understand how stupid your viewpoint is, because it's irrational, and you clearly don't understand what equality means. Look up the definition some time.


Let me help you:
Equality: the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.

It's that simple. So what aren't you understanding?
#14913354
Godstud wrote:No, I don't understand how stupid your viewpoint is, because it's irrational, and you clearly don't understand what equality means. Look up the definition some time.


Let me help you:
Equality: the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.

It's that simple. So what aren't you understanding?


I apply it to individuals, but not groups. You apply it to groups, but rarely individuals. Groups aren’t real. Individuals are.
#14913355
One Degree wrote:Groups aren’t real. Individuals are.
:lol: Your logic and reason are abandoning you in your old age.

Group: a number of people or things that are located close together or are considered or classed together.

That's a real thing. :D
#14913360
Godstud wrote::lol: Your logic and reason are abandoning you in your old age.

Group: a number of people or things that are located close together or are considered or classed together.

That's a real thing. :D


No it isn’t. You defined a word. You did not prove it was a real thing. It is an arbitrary description applied to real things. It is not capable of any action on it’s own.
#14913364
One Degree wrote: No it isn’t. You defined a word. You did not prove it was a real thing. It is an arbitrary description applied to real things. It is not capable of any action on it’s own.
:lol: People don't define things that don't exist. You are part of a group- Old White Males. Everyone is part of some group or another. It's a classification.

a real thing: the original, best, or most typical example of something

Groups exist, whether you want to believe it or not. The flaw is with your reasoning and lack of logic, not reality and facts.

Words represent things:
eg. Car is a word. It represents an actual thing.

I feel like I am talking to a child. Are you feeling OK?
#14913371
Godstud wrote::lol: People don't define things that don't exist. You are part of a group- Old White Males. Everyone is part of some group or another. It's a classification.

a real thing: the original, best, or most typical example of something

Groups exist, whether you want to believe it or not. The flaw is with your reasoning and lack of logic, not reality and facts.


You are apparently unaware of ‘abstractions’. This would account for your confusion.
#14913379
You philosophical meanderings are meaningless. We're dealing with reality here, not your mental cogitations, when drunk.

Equality is a real thing. Groups are real. Groups wanting equality is also real. Deal with it.
#14913381
One Degree wrote:I apply it to individuals, but not groups. You apply it to groups, but rarely individuals. Groups aren’t real. Individuals are.


You're saying the group has a right to oppress the individual. If the group democratically decides the state will be governed as a fundamentalist theocracy or a collectivist gulag then any individual who doesn't want to live as a religious fundamentalist or a gulaged collectivist is just SOL. That's bullshit. Basic rights and freedoms are off limits to democracy and democracy is a basic right. When a people collectively decide to violate basic human rights not only do they forfeit their right to self determination, they forfeit their rights to peace and security as well.
#14913383
@Godstud
Telling me I must treat a group as equals is an abstraction meant to convey I should treat all individuals who can be placed in that group as equals. If you truly believe in the equality of all individuals then using the abstract group is a meaningless distraction. We need to treat all individuals as we would any other individual. This includes not being nice to the ones you don’t like. Your abstraction prevents the exercise of true equality because it says are actions should be determined by an abstraction (group) rather than a real individual.
I will treat individuals based upon our compatibility regardless of any group they may belong to.
#14913386
Sivad wrote:You're saying the group has a right to oppress the individual. If the group democratically decides the state will be governed as a fundamentalist theocracy or a collectivist gulag then any individual who doesn't want to live as a religious fundamentalist or a gulaged collectivist is just SOL. That's bullshit. Basic rights and freedoms are off limits to democracy and democracy is a basic right. When a people collectively decide to violate basic human rights not only do they forfeit their right to self determination, they forfeit their rights to peace and security as well.


That is just liberal nonsense. The only rights you have come from a government. Yes, you are SOL if the majority says you are. Just because someone says they have inalienable rights doesn’t mean they do. If you can’t protect them, you don’t have them. There are no basic human rights except in your imagination.
#14913395
A government is a GROUP. :knife: The majority is also a group.

Human rights are granted by society. Society is a large group. The government's a group that does this.
#14913408
Godstud wrote:A government is a GROUP. :knife: The majority is also a group.

Human rights are granted by society. Society is a large group. The government's a group that does this.


Consensus is the key word here. Human rights are determined by consensus. They are an abstract ideal.

The validity of governments that violate the consensus is questioned. The greater the consensual violation the more questionable the government.

Questionable governments will find relations become increasingly difficult.

Zam :smokin:
#14913461
Zamuel wrote:Consensus is the key word here. Human rights are determined by consensus. They are an abstract ideal.

The validity of governments that violate the consensus is questioned. The greater the consensual violation the more questionable the government.

Questionable governments will find relations become increasingly difficult.

Zam :smokin:


Excellent. That is the nicest possible way of describing Western imperialism. Any country that does not agree to their invented ideals will be punished doesn’t sound so bad with the right choice of words. :)
#14913471
One Degree wrote:Any country that does not agree to their invented ideals will be punished doesn’t sound so bad with the right choice of words. :)

I'd say your "interpretation" is "Questionable."

Zam :lol:
#14913475
Zamuel wrote:I'd say your "interpretation" is "Questionable."

Zam :lol:


How so? If a country of men and women jointly decide women should not vote, then should they be punished?

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